Office Upgrade!!

croc_croc_ New
edited November 2003 in Hardware
ok the boss wants to upgrade all the pIII 500's in the office (good idea, bout time). I told him I would make up a mock system with pricing so he can see what this is going to cost him.

We have 7 computers that need to be built. 6 need to be basic, word processing, web browsing, etc etc. The 7th will be mine (I am currently working off my 2500+ shuttle) to be used for my work (photo editing, web design, page layout, etc etc).

Few questions:
Just how good is a Duron? Upgrading from pIII 500's so ... anything is better ....
How BAD is the original nforce chipset? (Asus A7N266-VM AA, 61 bucks with integrated gf2) Or, are there any ~$60 nf2 IGP boards? Trying to stay away from older VIA and SiS boards ....

So far this is what I have:

Basic Comp (x6)
$68.00 - AXP 2000+ Retail (hmm anything less only comes OEM, so unless I can run the durons w/ no HS, this is the best I found)
$87.00 - Shuttle MN31N (nf2 IGP / MCP-T) $15 mail in rebate
$45.00 - 256MB DDR266 Corsair Value Select
$23.00 - Foxconn Case w/ 350w PSU here

Use following existing components: CD-Rom, HD and floppy.

$223 Per system.

Media Comp (MINE!!)
$90.00 - AXP 2500+ Barton Retail
$105.00 - Abit NF7-M
$194.00 - 2x 512MB Corsair XMS DDR333
$78.00 - Western Digital 80GB WD800JB
$38.00 - Lite-On CD-RW
$5.00 - Floppy Drive
$35.00 - Raidmax Case w/ 350w PSU here

$934 (ouch)

Total - $2272

Any comments/suggestions ??? If you think I can save some money let me know!

Comments

  • gtghmgtghm New
    edited November 2003
    Humm...
    This is a classic question that I've seen many times.

    I think that your heart is in the right place trying to help your boss out and it all may work out just fine but you should be aware of the risks that you might get your self into.

    1) The business dosen't belong to you.

    If you build the machines for him you will be the only one that can fix them... Sounds like job security at first but there are some initial issues with that considering that you are only an employee...

    2) If you move onto a different job he's left with 7 desktops that no one knows what's going on with them...

    3) Tech support. Anytime any of the machines go down you are the only one that can fix it. That will cut into your own productivity level and might end up making a seemingly good thing into a thorn between you and your Boss...

    My advice, which many others have also stated, is to push him towards a regular manufacture like Dell...
    Puts all of the burden of the rigs working properly on them and not you....

    I know that your thinking of saving him money by going with AMD but there is the issue of stability and support in an enterprise/business enviroment...

    Just food for thought, if something goes wrong with them in any aspect you will have to be the one to anwser for it...

    If hes a good Boss he won't let you take that risk... :rolleyes:

    My $0.02,
    "g"
  • gtghmgtghm New
    edited November 2003
    BTW, the parts you suggested I would never use for an office/enterprise situation...

    Value ram....? remember you get what you pay for...
  • GobblesGobbles Ventura California
    edited November 2003
    I have to agree completely...

    You will be doing yourself and him a service by buying through corp channels. Not to mention should parts fail, then you have the pain of getting replacements... where as with dell or another it is far easier to get a replacement part...

    Gobbles
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited November 2003
    The computer that are here are custom built P3's with bottom end ram/hd's cd-roms/mobos. Anything would be better. I will suggest these, and suggest using higher quality parts, then suggest dell. I know what he is going to decide though.
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited November 2003
    Ok, I will try to convince him to get Prefab comps (dell most likely).
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited November 2003
    1. Don't get prefab stuff.
    2. Don't get shuttle boards.

    Give me a few days and I'll post a list of parts.

    I can't do it now (I have to go back to school in 5 minutes) and I don't think I'll get to it tonight (I have a huge C lab to write, compile, and debug by tomorrow), but I should be able to do it tomorrow night. I have to do one for someone else as well, so...

    In short though:
    ASUS or MSI boards
    AMD CPU, >1GHz
    RAM w/samsung chips, and samsung PCB if possible
    300w+ Antec PS
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited November 2003
    Yeah, next choice was an A7N8X-M (is that the model with IGP?) or NF7-M but they are alot more.... IDK ... I don't really like shuttle boards either, but it was the cheapest IGP board. (btw isn't shuttle owned by ASUS??)

    Corsair Value isn't samsung?

    They do have a point, Prefab is prolly the best bet, reliability-wise (even if they do break down, a total retard can send it back to dell to get it fixed, where as my systems, they would need me, or hire someone.)
  • GobblesGobbles Ventura California
    edited November 2003
    is just a bandaid...

    If you want to get into the business side of it you can with..

    the systems that are there now are past their depreciation schedule so all the parts in the system are technically from an accounting stand point, worthless. Investing money in upgrading them is not a good idea.. Most CFO's (chief financial officers) will tell you to just donate them, sell them , or put them to work doing something else. Most PC's now have a 3 year depreciation schedule, which means that at the end of the 3 years the machines have no value to the company and can be written off for tax purposes, if donated. Starting fresh with new machine, I suggest getting the absolute fastest machines you can with in budget of course, will begin a new depreciation cycle, getting fastest now, means, in some cases, that you can wait at the end of the depreciation cycle before beginning a new cycle and extend the machine life before replacement..

    ok my head is starting to hurt... must read tech stuff, clear accounting info from brain as death is pending if keep thinking about numbers.... :D

    Good luck.. and hey croc your thing said yesterday that you were in agoura.. now its long beach... Im in westlake dude...

    Gobbles
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2003
    I can't believe what i'm reading. Recommend getting Dell's? Even if it is for another owners firm, by all means, build them new systems if you have the chance to but do so with quality in mind, not the price. 6 Dells would probably be 3 or even 4 times more with the extended warranty and if you know what you are doing, a good quality machine won't need any services except for maintenance and cleaning.

    Ask several of the bigger vendors for an offer of your choice.
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited November 2003
    Gobbles had this to say

    Good luck.. and hey croc your thing said yesterday that you were in agoura.. now its long beach... Im in westlake dude...

    Gobbles

    Forgot to update that. I used to live in Agoura, I had to move cause of work.

    Well ... I see good points on both sides here. On one had I have the PREFABS with warranties. One the other hand I have custom systems for LESS and with MORE performance. I guess I will just ask him his budget, tell him the pros and cons of each, and let HIM decide, because in the end, it is his desicion.
  • ShortyShorty Manchester, UK Icrontian
    edited November 2003
    Actually, Im going to play advocate here...

    I have no choice but to build NF7-M machines for my employer. DELL charge more than our very tight budget allows. It's all well and good to suggest someone goes to buy a bunch of prefabs.. but.. if the company lacks a big budget .. or is a small company.. then building your own isn't as bad an idea as it sounds.

    It's a question of understanding what you are buying and what you are doing. If you buy good quality components, then you are more likely to have less problems. Document everything you buy and what it does (so even a total noob could identify it). Then in the event of you leaving, you have plenty of documentation to hand over to the next person with some tech savvy. It's not rocket science with PC's these days.

    There is nothing wrong with buying DELL machines or any other prefab. This is not enthuiastic market. This is corporate. It's a completely different mindset. When it comes down to brass tacks, DELL make very good desktops and workstations for corporate use. You aren't gonna overclock em, you are just gonna work on them. When they go wrong, the engineer is there the next day to fix the fault. It's that easy and that simple. Say what you like and how much you hate them, they wouldn't be in as many offices.. if it wasnt for the shear convienience of them. IT workers are hardworked enough as it is. But that is big corporations..

    So.. in my small business example where I work...

    In the last 3 weeks, I've built 3 machines with this combo..

    NF7-M
    2500+ Retail Barton
    1gig of Samsung PC2700
    Lite-On CDRW
    Decent case with 3 x 80mm fans

    They run fast, cool and are very stable.

    It's a question of finances and situation. Decide what is best for your companies budget AND staff strategy. Then choose what suits the situation BEST.
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited November 2003
    As someone who has worked for several small computer repair shops, and is now freelancing, let me assure you that you will have very little trouble finding someone to repair your computers if/when the need arises. Many of my customers are small businesses which find the convenience of having a reliable tech who can be onsite quickly (often the day they call, especially in an emergency situation) to be better than shipping off their computer to a big company, then having to wait for it to come back. Some of these computers are still under warranty, but the company would rather pay for immediate service than lose productivity waiting on the warranty-repair process.

    When you have to RMA a part, you're miffed because your comp is down for a few days (or weeks); when a business loses a computer it usually results in one (or more) employees getting paid to sit around twiddling their thumbs until it is fixed.

    The responsible thing to do is to make sure your boss understands exactly what will be involved should something go wrong. As long as he is aware of the fact that he will be relying on 3rd party tech support (someone like me), he should be able to make the choice that is right for his situation. Suggest that he put aside part of the money he saves toward upkeep. Make sure he keeps all the receipts for the parts handy, just in case. Additionally, most local repair shops will be glad to set you up with a service contract at a very reasonable price.

    The people who have pointed out the advantages of going with a big company have made a fair argument, but I think they may be overlooking one point: Dell, etc, are not likely to jump through hoops for a small company purchasing seven computers. I'm sure General Motors can command the instant attention of a large computer manufacturer; small outfits will likely have to wait in line with the rest of us schmucks.
    :wave:
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited November 2003
    Yeah, I am just worried that if I leave for some reason, he wont know what to do, or where to look for assistance, and possibly get ripped off. But I do know how to build a computer, and for the most part the systems I have built haven't had any problems due to the construction or quality of the parts. **** happens, and I don't want him to be stuck when it does if I am not there to fix it.

    In the end I think he will end up going the cheapest route possible, and I will be building 7 new computers (*cough* maybe setup F@H on all of them too)

    The ideal system would be:

    2500+
    NF7-M
    256MB Kingston
    40gb WD
    Lite-on or whatever brand 52xCD-ROM
    Random Floppy
    Case+ 350w enermax or antec psu

    while my system would have a larger HD, more/faster ram and a cd-r

    I am going to pitch this to him today or tomorrow with prices and comparable systems from Dell, and I will have his desicion later this week.
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited November 2003
    croc_ had this to say
    Yeah, I am just worried that if I leave for some reason, he wont know what to do, or where to look for assistance, and possibly get ripped off.
    If you go the self-built route, wait until the comps are up and running, then call a local repair company and talk to the owner, or the manager of the repair department. Tell them you are interested in getting a quote for a service contract. They'll likely send a guy out for an hour to appraise your equipment and offer you a price quote. Even if you don't go with the contract, it will give you a good chance to size them up as to whether they are competent or not.

    Either way, you'll have someone in the Rolodex to call if needed. There is nothing magical about Dell Tech Support.
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited November 2003
    From an accounting standpoint, Gobbles is right about the depreciation schedule.

    I'd like to point out something though. Gobbles said it, but I want to clarify:

    The existing PCs, if they have been depreciated correctly, have been completely written off. The current book value is $0. If your company donates them, the company can take a tax deduction in the amount of the market value of the donated PC's. If new PCs are purchased, then this can begin all over again. However, if it's a smaller company (which it seems to be) then the accountant probably won't like this method. You see, the tax writeoff has to be balanced with something. And since the book value of the computers is zero, you can't write off against the PCs! Larger companies typically have an account called "Charitable Contributions" or something like that, which donations to charity can be written off against, and smaller companies often don't have such accounts.

    If it is a company that's small enough that budget is very tight and doesn't have the accounting system in place to write off the donation, the company is probably better off if you build the systems yourself.
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited November 2003
    He doesn't donate, they will be put in a cupboard. :P Its not a "small" company, but most of its size is in the manufacturing, which is done right here in Garden Grove, CA, not sent out to taiwan or china. Our need for office staff is low, and production workers is high. So yeah we only have 7 computers in the office total. Actually its more like 5 that actually get used.

    bleh. I gotta pee ..... and I have done almost no work today.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited November 2003
    croc_, are there any decent local shops?

    That would be your best bet. If you do a lot of business with a smaller local company, they ought to be willing to basically bend over backwards to accomodate you. My grandparent's business buys all of their computers from www.pixelusa.com, and since we're one of their biggest (actually, probably, THE) biggest customers, they'll do basically anything to keep us happy.
  • edited November 2003
    build them yourself croc.:thumbsup:
  • Al_CapownAl_Capown Indiana
    edited November 2003
    Imacs!!! Only $999 or so. I watched a few /switch commercials and i mean... wow. Then a zombie came out of my computer and ate my paper. Boo
  • GobblesGobbles Ventura California
    edited November 2003
    Mackanz had this to say
    I can't believe what i'm reading. Recommend getting Dell's? Even if it is for another owners firm, by all means, build them new systems if you have the chance to but do so with quality in mind, not the price. 6 Dells would probably be 3 or even 4 times more with the extended warranty and if you know what you are doing, a good quality machine won't need any services except for maintenance and cleaning.

    Ask several of the bigger vendors for an offer of your choice.

    Its not that we are against building pc's. This is just how things are done in the corporate world, here atleast. Due to stretched resources, most companies dont have the manpower to donate to building machines etc... You walk into, and this is a guess, 80% of meduim, and 95% of large companies, and you will find prefab machines. Thats just the way business here works. Smaller companies you will see the ratio drop to more 40% prefab then local built machines followed by in house. When im buying machines, I call all my vendors and have them price machines I spec, the ones that offer the best price vs performance/software options wins. Up to this point it has been Micron PC. Which I might add uses all standard ots parts, nothing custom at all. Which also played a big roll as dell beat them in price but some options were not what we wanted. As for warranties... I almost always had my replacement part within 24 hours depending on availability.

    As for the donating.. Depreciation values for a company are not an effect on donations. The donation value is calculated from fair market worth, not one companies depreciation schedule. Some companies put a schedule of 2 years others have 5 it varies..

    anywho... do what you want, I was just making a suggestion from personal experience, having dealt with 2 system swaps in the time here, totaling 300+ machines.. on a staggered replacement schedule. In the end Croc it is his choice...

    Gobbles
  • ShortyShorty Manchester, UK Icrontian
    edited November 2003
    Gobbles... one sentence I know will make you shudder...

    Windows roll-outs :eek3:

    Rolling out Active Directory onto 45 servers running NT server & Exchange 5.5 along with 70,000 Windows 95/NT4 workstations...

    I've been there... :banghead:
  • GobblesGobbles Ventura California
    edited November 2003
    *shudders violently..*

    I feel that pain...

    Gobbles
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