Penryn: a huge leap?

Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
edited August 2007 in Science & Tech
With AMD rolling out its new Phenom processors, Intel has been keen on making sure we know that a 45nm super-chip is coming and it is better than the Core 2 Duos we have access to now. Overall, I find the idea to be a bunch of digital junk from the early benchmarks posted all on the Internet.

Our friends over at <a href="http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3069&p=1">Anandtech</a&gt; have acquired a lower clocked Penryn 45nm chip running at 2.33GHz and have compared it to our current 2.33GHz Core 2 Duo. In all tests the best performance increase was <a href="http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3069&amp;p=3&quot;&gt;10.5% in applications</a> with an average of 7% and will offer a <a href="http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3069&amp;p=4&quot;&gt;10% drop in power consumption</a>. For a chip to chip comparison that is not a huge number. AMD currently feels the Phenom line of processors will be head to head with the Core 2 Duo architecture and will possibly out perform it. If this is the case AMD might just be in the ball park and Penryn will not be the winner Intel is making it out to be. We have about 6 weeks to go before these numbers really play out so stay tuned for more news on these uberleet processors.

Comments

  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited August 2007
    I don't think intel have ever claimed that Penryn is a 'super chip', it's basically a die shrink with some extra bits thrown in. Between 5% and 10% improvement over a core 2 duo at the same clock speed is reasonable when you consider that these smaller process chips will likely scale much higher than Core 2. I was always an AMD fanboy but I really don't think they're even going to make into the parking lot, never mind the ball park in this coming generation.
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited August 2007
    10% is not what I would call a huge performance increase which Intel has been claiming to be a big step with 45nm. It is just like the Core Duo to Core 2 Duo in notebooks, the increase was marginal if any.

    I already know Phenom will play ball with C2D in the ball Park, just not sure about Penryn, but if Penryn dual core is only 7% faster on average Phenom will be on its heels.
  • shwaipshwaip bluffin' with my muffin Icrontian
    edited August 2007
    a 10% increase with the 10% drop in power consumption is pretty impressive.
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited August 2007
    but it's not an average of 7% speed increase, it's an average of 7% at the same clock speed. I'm confidently predicting that Intel will release aggressively clocked Penryn based chips (yay 45nm!) that will walk all over anything AMD can put out.

    I guess we'll just have to wait and see though :)
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited August 2007
    What have these companies done to us? Just like the GPU market a 10% increase is not worth the upgrade. Now if they OC to high heavens and provide a huge performance increase... in that respect than I would say go for it.
  • QeldromaQeldroma Arid ZoneAh Member
    edited August 2007
    shwaip wrote:
    a 10% increase with the 10% drop in power consumption is pretty impressive.

    Me too. If it can also overclock 10% more ... well you get the picture. More production per watt=more WUs for Stanford and $ for me.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited August 2007
    45nm chips are coming out at 3.2GHz+, are expected to scale past 4. They're a significant upgrade.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited August 2007
    a 10% increase with the 10% drop in power consumption is pretty impressive.
    It gets my attention! And that's a pre-production sample at that. Real hardware in the hands of an independent, third party. This wasn't a semi-secretive CPU locked in a mystery box at a trade show, under the protective watch of factory representatives.
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited August 2007
    Thrax wrote:
    45nm chips are coming out at 3.2GHz+, are expected to scale past 4. They're a significant upgrade.

    I'm talking clock to clock, and C2D has already been able to hit 4GHz and even 5GHz... so whats new?
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited August 2007
    You're absolutely right -- if the C2D is sitting under $400 of water or phase cooling. The Penryn will be doing 4+ on the OEM heatsink by the end of 2008, I can almost promise you that. This does not figure in Intel's 15% emergency clockspeed reserves which every core they've designed since the Pentium II has had on tap in case their competitor pulls out the big guns.

    The Penryn is amazing. A 10% clock:clock speed increase for a new core has never happened before, and never has a die shrink unlocked such amazing overclocking potential so quickly. None of AMD's die shrinks ever yielded so much without months and months of fiddling and weaseling out higher bins. This chip will be a monster.
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited August 2007
    A 10% clock:clock speed increase for a new core has never happened before

    Pent 4 to Core Duo... to name one jump... Along with that AMD has hinted at a 40% increase in a few programs and up to 20% all around performance increase over its current architecture... that would be a #2

    While I will agree that OC'ing Intel chips is easy as hell with its new architecture, the masses who buy the chips will never see that performance gain.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited August 2007
    The two examples you just gave are not core changes, those are entirely new chips. You're confusing a die shrink with brand new architecture.

    P4 -> Core != core revision.
    A64 -> Barcelona != core revision.

    The Penryn is like the jump from the Thoroughbred-B to the Barton, or the Northwood to the Prescott. Tweaks here and there, but these set of tweaks yield a much higher return than previous shrinks/tweaks. Nobody has done this before.

    And OC'ing nothing. When these chips hit 4GHz on air with the OEM sinks right out of a retail box -- as in sold off the shelf at 4GHz -- everyone will see that performance. Overclocking is just an added benefit. As it stands, 333*10 (3.33GHz) is on tap as a launch speed for the penryn for Core 2 XE chips.
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited August 2007
    I doubt we will see a 4GHz part stock off the shelf with Penryn. If anything Intel will only release such a chip at high costs... and only if AMD has something up its sleeve.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited August 2007
    Wiliamette P4: 1300-2000MHz
    Northwood P4: 1600-3400MHz
    Prescott P4: 2800-3800MHz
    Conroe C2D: 1800-3000MHz

    Average clockspeed delta: 1175MHz.

    Penryn C2D (Launch): 2500-3160MHz (3.16GHz is the EE version). Given past knowledge, Penryn may top out at 3.67 (11*333), which would fall in line with the average clockspeed delta of Intel's generations of cores. Considering it took a year for Intel to move from 1800-3000MHz with the C2, another year for Penryn to move from 2500 - 3.67GHz would put Intel at the end of 2008, which would be time for the Nehalem to arrive. I suspect, however, that Intel's 45nm process is going to mature remarkably (Must mature remarkably) in time for Nehalem (New architecture), which means 4GHz is not entirely unreasonable.

    //EDIT:
    Via: xbitlabs

    According to sources, until Nehalem CPUs come out, Penryn will increase their clock speeds up to 4GHz.
    This will be the startup frequency for Nehalem processors in H2 2008.
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited August 2007
    I still stand by my comments above in saying Phenom will slap Penryn in the arsetecha...
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited August 2007
    Sledgehammer70 wrote:
    I still stand by my comments above in saying Phenom will slap Penryn in the arsetecha...

    Stated like the AMD fanboy you are, Sledge. ;):D

    Penryn's performance gains are pretty damn good considering that it is nothing more than a die shrink and a very slight revision of the same basic Core architecture introduced last year (biggest difference is the extra cache). Plus, a 10% drop in power consumption too. All in all, a damn good evolutionary upgrade. And a good way to go through the transition to 45 nm to minimize problems IMO.

    I'm considering going with Penryn for my next upgrade of my main rig myself. I don't think AMD can come up with anything in the next year that would entice me to go back that way from the way things look now.
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited August 2007
    Yup the biggest AMD fanboy who doesn't own any AMD chips... thats me :)
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited August 2007
    Damn, you got rid of all your AMD stuff?

    I now expect the sky to fall down. ;D;D
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited August 2007
    muddocktor wrote:
    Damn, you got rid of all your AMD stuff?

    I now expect the sky to fall down. ;D;D

    The only thing in my home that was running AMD was SMx33. I did love the Athlon 64 until Intel whipped in with Core Duo. My ex dv8000t was the replacement of all my desktops and now I have the C2D T7500 in my ASUS F3 series laptop which is the only PC I now own currently...

    I know I will love the Phenom chip as I do the C2D :)
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