LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited October 2007
folding never gets above 50 C
I am finding that monitoring programs and the specific core/CPU in measurement makes a huge difference. For instance, SpeedFan measure each core separately (four readings) and also gives a "CPU" reading - five readings altogether for the same processor. The CPU reading seems to be an average all four cores. (Yes, I know, Core Temp is supposed to be the most accurate. I'm also monitoring with that.)
Which monitoring program? Which core is measured at 50C?
I am finding that monitoring programs and the specific core/CPU in measurement makes a huge difference. For instance, SpeedFan measure each core separately (four readings) and also gives a "CPU" reading - five readings altogether for the same processor. The CPU reading seems to be an average all four cores. (Yes, I know, Core Temp is supposed to be the most accurate. I'm also monitoring with that.)
Which monitoring program? Which core is measured at 50C?
I use three different programs, Everest, CoreTemp, and PCWizard, and once I verified that they were generally consistent with each other, I pretty much use only PCWizard now as it has an OSD that doesn't take up too much space.
All four programs show me temps for each individual core, and PCWizard also shows me an overall CPU temp, a mobo temp, and a GPU temp. I don't really know what the CPU temp is either; as long as it's under my core temps, I'm ok with that. Like I said, my cores vary 5-7 degrees between themselves, with cores 0 and 1 always running hotter, around 50 degrees C when folding, and cores 2 and 3 always running cooler, between 43 and 45.
Sorry for the late reply, btw. Apparently my notifications aren't very speedy.
Edit: I just downloaded and installed SpeedFan 4.33, and it's miserably wrong on a lot of my values. My 3.3V and 5V rails are right, but it records my 12V as 6. My temps are all below 35 C on it, when they're actually 50. Suffice it to say I'll stick with the other ones. Wonder what's going wrong with it.
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited October 2007
I'm playing now with SpeedFan, Core Temp, Everest, and PC Wizard. The core temps that they report, as in 0 through 3, are fairly consistent with Core Temp. None of them give an accurate 12+ reading - all that report that line show 5.8. Weird! The only monitor that showed 12+ correctly was Abit's EQ, which will not open now. Another weird.
We get it, you're cool because you have a multimeter. Some of us don't, and we have to use programs/BIOS. Sorry.
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited October 2007
Only way to get a correct Voltage reading is with a volt meter.
True, but that is completely impractical for working up a max overclock with several frequency settings, several voltage settings, and CPU/FSB/DRAM timings ratios. A multimeter is also not practical if you need to observe vCore voltage droop in real time.
We get it, you're cool because you have a multimeter. Some of us don't, and we have to use programs/BIOS. Sorry.
He gave an advice that is very true. No reason to play the sarcasm game.
mmonnin knows more about electronics then most i have met and he has never ever given a bad advice here on Icrontic/Short-Media. If you want to get to the bottom of things like this, there is no shortcut.
A multimeter costs $10 at Walmart and in most civilian contries, you'll learn how to use one in school when you are between 13-15.
If someone can afford a quad or C2D or any ethusiast equipment they can afford a simple multemeter. As Swede said its pretty cheap, I think I got mine from Home Depot or Lowes for about $15.
One of the main reasons I got one was because my 12V rail was showing like 11V or something in the BIOS (was like 2 years ago but it anyway it was low) so I bought a multimeter and it showed 12.03 OCd with load.
Sure its not meant to observe anything besides the 12/5/3.3V rails, unless you are daring enough to touch metal to your motherboard for other voltages...but I just said it because nothing else can give a more stable reading.
What it WILL do is tell you that your 3.3 rail is not running at 2V.
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
If someone can afford a quad or C2D or any ethusiast equipment they can afford a simple multemeter. As Swede said its pretty cheap, ...but I just said it because nothing else can give a more stable reading.
I think you have me convinced. I'll probably get one this weekend.
Apologies, I didn't mean to come off as rude, that was just the 12th or 15th time I'd heard "get a multimeter." I just tend to shy away from buying something that at least right now, I'll only use for exactly this one thing, no matter the price.
Thought I might chime in a little. I just received the same board and a quad (b3 stepping) and I'm noticing lots of heat at stock settings. Granted I have a crud stepping, but 2 cores at 72c with a Ninja? (4 instances of stress-prime ,core temp. AbitEQ was showing 60c). I removed the sink 3 times and still can't drop the temps.
So to figure what was wrong I tried the factory supplied HSF (temps can't be that high) 80c and climbing! ( I shut down stress prime pretty fast)
Intel can't keep these puppies cool either!
Sorry Leo for jumping into your thread, but I only wish for temps that were that cool.:bigggrin:
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited October 2007
Using the "CPU" heat measurement (as differentiated from individual core readings) from Core Temp and SpeedFan, it appears the externally measured heat output of my B3 quad at 3GHz is approximately the same as one of my Pentium D (dual core Presler) at 4GHz. When you think about it, that stands to reason. Presler's two relatively inefficient "Netburst" cores clocked very high equal about the same waste heat as the quad's relatively efficient four cores.
Yes, it is not hard to believe your Ninja is having a difficult time removing all that waste heat. At 3GHz, BIOS indicated 1.335 vCore, full load, highest core temp (Core 0) of my Q6600 is 65C. I'm using the same Big Typhoon I used with the previous Asus/D915 setup (2.8 @ 4.0 GHz).
Just when Intel and AMD figure how to increase power with less energy, they pack more power consuming cores in the same unit! Oh well, imagine what a four-core Smithfield would have been like! YIKES
By the way, my Q6600/Abit IP35E platform is not stable yet. I've got an RMA number for the board and will probably be packing it up for return shipment this weekend.
Its not ever been stable at stock speeds? And the memory tests ok at stock speeds?
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited October 2007
It is stable at stock speeds, IF NB and SB voltages are jacked up almost to max. Monitor flickers occasionally if PCIe bus is not set to 105MHz.
I have not performed any memory tests. I have done all my troubleshooting on this computer using known memory sets from other computer builds where it worked flawlessly for months. Sure, that's not a guarantee that memory is without flaws, but it's unlikely that two sets of RAM would both be defective. Additionally, all troubleshooting and operation of the computer has been with RAM at default frequency.
Sorry about your problems with the board Leo. I made my mind up upon reading reviews around the web, you picking it up when you did was just icing on the cake. Selling some parts off to help finance this build made it take a little longer.
In my case, I think I solved my heat problem (and voided my cpu warranty)
Right after I made my last post, I removed the Intel hsf. I checked the IHS, it looked like the ocean! A little emery cloth and a piece of glass, now my temps with the Ninja are 60c full load. 10c drop, and all the cores are within 3c now (as reported by core temp) I didn't get crazy lapping this thing, just scuffing off the high spots a little, looks promising though.
It is stable at stock speeds, IF NB and SB voltages are jacked up almost to max. Monitor flickers occasionally if PCIe bus is not set to 105MHz.
I have not performed any memory tests. I have done all my troubleshooting on this computer using known memory sets from other computer builds where it worked flawlessly for months. Sure, that's not a guarantee that memory is without flaws, but it's unlikely that two sets of RAM would both be defective. Additionally, all troubleshooting and operation of the computer has been with RAM at default frequency.
And you swapped not only ram from another rig but also CPU's right so that you are sure its the MB???
Thats the problem of me going quad intel and ddr2 now... No known good spares for me here to swap unless I try to get TWO rigs with differant motherboards but the same cpu's and two differamt sets of ram, etc... (rolls eyes.....)
its soooo sad Leo. You realize that for 99.5 percent of the computer population an upgrade today to 4gb ddr2 and a quad q6600 would mean they have all the computer upgrades they need till like 2001 covered.
And it won't last you or me 12 months. (wink) Leo we are hardware junkies...
Tex
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited October 2007
temps with the Ninja are 60c full load
That terminology has become vague. What temperature is the hottest core under full load? Is this at overclock or at default CPU frequency? Hey, I have to remind myself also - "CPU temp" doesn't mean much if there are multiple cores. One core could be ready to crash and burn while its siblings are all happy.
You realize that for 99.5 percent of the computer population an upgrade today to 4gb ddr2 and a quad q6600 would mean they have all the computer upgrades they need till like...
...another 10 years. Yes, I agree. My home computers, even the 'older' generation machines are F-22s compared to my office machines, which are business standard Dell Octopus slugs.
No not 10 years in the future Leo sorry. By then
"M i c ro s h i t" will have apandoned all support for Vista and users will be then forced to upgrade to Wamista Plus.
Which requires the equiv of a cray supercomputer and 64 terrabytes of ddr9 to function in its stripped down default configuration. Which basicaly means you can only boot and play pong.
BUT ITS VERY FAST PONG !!! And if you shut down a few Wamista Plus services and tweak the settings on Wamaist Plus you can sometimes ALSO receive email!
Thats the problem of me going quad intel and ddr2 now... No known good spares for me here to swap unless I try to get TWO rigs with differant motherboards but the same cpu's and two differamt sets of ram, etc... (rolls eyes.....)
Tex
Solution: Get 2 systems at once!
I've seen it multiple times that Intels IHS is not very flat and by lapping the surface greatly reduces core temps. Even if its not a mirror finish, just getting metal to metal contact does wonders for temps.
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited November 2007
Working up the overclock. Today I swapped out the old, faithful Thermaltake Big Typhoon. It was a workhorse, but the Q6600s just aren't nearly as heat tolerant as my old Pentium D dual cores. I could reach the CPU limits with the D930s and the Typhoon, but not on the Q6600. I got a Tuniq Tower 120 through a private trade and installed it today.
This is a B3 stepping. I really had to turn up the vCore to get it stable. Setting is 1.3625v and actual is 1.31 under full load. I think the CPU is good for 3.3GHz, maybe higher, but I need to take a break before I attempt higher clocks. Wouldn't hurt for the Arctic Silver to set a bit. It's still fresh.
Comments
Which monitoring program? Which core is measured at 50C?
I use three different programs, Everest, CoreTemp, and PCWizard, and once I verified that they were generally consistent with each other, I pretty much use only PCWizard now as it has an OSD that doesn't take up too much space.
All four programs show me temps for each individual core, and PCWizard also shows me an overall CPU temp, a mobo temp, and a GPU temp. I don't really know what the CPU temp is either; as long as it's under my core temps, I'm ok with that. Like I said, my cores vary 5-7 degrees between themselves, with cores 0 and 1 always running hotter, around 50 degrees C when folding, and cores 2 and 3 always running cooler, between 43 and 45.
Sorry for the late reply, btw. Apparently my notifications aren't very speedy.
Edit: I just downloaded and installed SpeedFan 4.33, and it's miserably wrong on a lot of my values. My 3.3V and 5V rails are right, but it records my 12V as 6. My temps are all below 35 C on it, when they're actually 50. Suffice it to say I'll stick with the other ones. Wonder what's going wrong with it.
He gave an advice that is very true. No reason to play the sarcasm game.
mmonnin knows more about electronics then most i have met and he has never ever given a bad advice here on Icrontic/Short-Media. If you want to get to the bottom of things like this, there is no shortcut.
A multimeter costs $10 at Walmart and in most civilian contries, you'll learn how to use one in school when you are between 13-15.
One of the main reasons I got one was because my 12V rail was showing like 11V or something in the BIOS (was like 2 years ago but it anyway it was low) so I bought a multimeter and it showed 12.03 OCd with load.
Sure its not meant to observe anything besides the 12/5/3.3V rails, unless you are daring enough to touch metal to your motherboard for other voltages...but I just said it because nothing else can give a more stable reading.
What it WILL do is tell you that your 3.3 rail is not running at 2V.
Sorry again, though, I didn't mean to be rude.
So to figure what was wrong I tried the factory supplied HSF (temps can't be that high) 80c and climbing!
Intel can't keep these puppies cool either!
Sorry Leo for jumping into your thread, but I only wish for temps that were that cool.:bigggrin:
Yes, it is not hard to believe your Ninja is having a difficult time removing all that waste heat. At 3GHz, BIOS indicated 1.335 vCore, full load, highest core temp (Core 0) of my Q6600 is 65C. I'm using the same Big Typhoon I used with the previous Asus/D915 setup (2.8 @ 4.0 GHz).
Just when Intel and AMD figure how to increase power with less energy, they pack more power consuming cores in the same unit! Oh well, imagine what a four-core Smithfield would have been like! YIKES
By the way, my Q6600/Abit IP35E platform is not stable yet. I've got an RMA number for the board and will probably be packing it up for return shipment this weekend.
Thread over here.
I have not performed any memory tests. I have done all my troubleshooting on this computer using known memory sets from other computer builds where it worked flawlessly for months. Sure, that's not a guarantee that memory is without flaws, but it's unlikely that two sets of RAM would both be defective. Additionally, all troubleshooting and operation of the computer has been with RAM at default frequency.
In my case, I think I solved my heat problem (and voided my cpu warranty)
Right after I made my last post, I removed the Intel hsf. I checked the IHS, it looked like the ocean! A little emery cloth and a piece of glass, now my temps with the Ninja are 60c full load. 10c drop, and all the cores are within 3c now (as reported by core temp) I didn't get crazy lapping this thing, just scuffing off the high spots a little, looks promising though.
And you swapped not only ram from another rig but also CPU's right so that you are sure its the MB???
Thats the problem of me going quad intel and ddr2 now... No known good spares for me here to swap unless I try to get TWO rigs with differant motherboards but the same cpu's and two differamt sets of ram, etc... (rolls eyes.....)
its soooo sad Leo. You realize that for 99.5 percent of the computer population an upgrade today to 4gb ddr2 and a quad q6600 would mean they have all the computer upgrades they need till like 2001 covered.
And it won't last you or me 12 months. (wink) Leo we are hardware junkies...
Tex
...another 10 years. Yes, I agree. My home computers, even the 'older' generation machines are F-22s compared to my office machines, which are business standard Dell Octopus slugs.
No not 10 years in the future Leo sorry. By then
"M i c ro s h i t" will have apandoned all support for Vista and users will be then forced to upgrade to Wamista Plus.
Which requires the equiv of a cray supercomputer and 64 terrabytes of ddr9 to function in its stripped down default configuration. Which basicaly means you can only boot and play pong.
BUT ITS VERY FAST PONG !!! And if you shut down a few Wamista Plus services and tweak the settings on Wamaist Plus you can sometimes ALSO receive email!
Tex
Solution: Get 2 systems at once!
I've seen it multiple times that Intels IHS is not very flat and by lapping the surface greatly reduces core temps. Even if its not a mirror finish, just getting metal to metal contact does wonders for temps.
Present clock:
Q6600/B3
Core frequency: 3.2GHz (9 X 355)
FSB: 1420
DDR: 852MHz (Geil DDR2 800)
This is a B3 stepping. I really had to turn up the vCore to get it stable. Setting is 1.3625v and actual is 1.31 under full load. I think the CPU is good for 3.3GHz, maybe higher, but I need to take a break before I attempt higher clocks. Wouldn't hurt for the Arctic Silver to set a bit. It's still fresh.