Dedicated Server Discussion
Ryder
Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
Ok...since I was being somewhat silly earlier 
, lets actually have a thread about the server 
Brian, What does space in the Datacenter cost? How much is this going to increase your bill every month?
You have said you pay by the rackspace unit (U) so a 1U server is of course the best/least costly option.
We are in kind of a catch 22. We have/can get all the parts for a server for pretty much nothing, but it will cost more to put it at the datacenter because we can't get it in a 1U box.
We should break this down a bit and see where the money leads us.
, lets actually have a thread about the server Brian, What does space in the Datacenter cost? How much is this going to increase your bill every month?
You have said you pay by the rackspace unit (U) so a 1U server is of course the best/least costly option.
We are in kind of a catch 22. We have/can get all the parts for a server for pretty much nothing, but it will cost more to put it at the datacenter because we can't get it in a 1U box.
We should break this down a bit and see where the money leads us.
0
Comments
1U = free to host
2U+ = more than renting a dedicated TF2 server from a game hosting company
I have put out a couple feelers for 1U server stuff (current gen that will run C2D/C2Q CPU's) Give me a couple days to see how that pans out.
I already have a Dual Socket 604 board that I think will fit in a 1U case, but that of course will not support C2D CPU's
I just put together a Poweredge 1950 and it came to 1,456 (1575.xx shipped/taxed) with Quad core 1.86GHz CPU, 4GB of ECC ram, and 73GB Serial Attached SCSI drive, no operating system.
Is that what you found as well Brian? That will be plus tax, etc.
Not sure if this will work for you guys, but here is the system: http://ecomm.dell.com/dellstore/popups/popup_sys_details.aspx?itemtype=&s=bsd&l=en&cs=04&c=us&item=6221dd5d-6265-4e50-9250-aae56d04e10b&cart=MySavedItems
I'm donating my retail license of Win2k3 server. I don't need it, I paid $500 for it a couple of years ago, I can finally get some use out of it.
I would highly recommend pre-built over DiY in this case.
1U servers are finicky, high temp, loud machines. Out of the 12-15 servers I've had over the years, the only ones I haven't had mechanical or thermal problems with have been the OEM boxes; my sun box, my two poweredges. Rock solid 100% stable on and on. The DiY boxes, I've had to replace fans, PSUs, and motherboards.
The SunFire V100 I bought in 1999 is STILL RUNNING. In almost eight years, I've only taken it down about four times, three times due to physical relocation and once due to memory upgrade. It doesn't really get any better than that for reliability (24/7 for eight years! what?!) I don't have a DiY that even comes remotely close to that record.
The other nice thing about OEM is warranty. We lose a part, it gets replaced.
ABMX.com 1U
2.13Ghz C2D, 4GB RAM, 36GB Raptor, 1yr warranty = $1,039.96
If we decide to rent instead, I would be willing to manage the collection of funds, and the paying of the bill for the group.
That's assuming we can get 23 people to sign up. Let's operate with the assumption that it will 'probably' be $100 per person.
This in mind, I would rather rent.
$100 per person would rent a server for a lot longer than this game will be popular, and we wouldn't have to worry about any maintenance.
Frankly, as great as I think this game is, it's uber-popularity will likely not last until this time next year. The highest price I've seen for a TF2 server rental is $50/month. even at that high price, it would only cost 24 people a total of $25 apeice to rent it for a year. That means that for the cost of the server, we could rent one for four years. And again, that's comparing a high estimate for the rental, and a low estimate for the purchase.
To summarize: Now that I think about the real costs, rental seems like a much, much better idea than purchase.
If we rent, then we rent for every game we all want to play in the future.
What if each of the next generation of games would require a server more powerful than we can build for a reasonable price now? We'd be out of pocket twice, even if we can all 24 agree on the same game.
I, for one, am willing to chip in for TF2. If I chipped in $100 to set up a TF2 server this year and then everyone else changed it to a UT3 dedicated server next year, I'd feel horribly let down, and disinclined to continue my participation.
Also, there is no reason for uas to collect more money than the rent of the server. We can figure out who wants to have a reserved slot for a year, then split the cost of the server evenly among those people for the first year. Then, at the end of the year, we can reevaluate for the next year. If people don't want to play TF2 anymore, they can bow out at that point, or if the group has moved onto a new game, then we can see about renting a server for that game instead.
Six-months might even be a better period for reevaluation.
Also, I don't mind the logistics. I volunteer to manage and collect the money, and I'm willing to put the time into doing it right. Paypay will help
Now I am.... confused
If it is the consensus that this many people wanting to play 1 game will likely never happen again, then yes... renting a server for the next 2 to 4 months will certainly be the best option.
With a Quad core and 2 or 4GB of ram, I bet the thing could run 2 or maybe 3 game servers, but I suppose I could be wrong about that too.
I know for sure that BF2 doesn't use that much server power so surely it could run alongside TF2 and maybe even CS:S or UT...wouldn't know until we tried it.
Also renting would eliminate a problem of ownership. If we pitch in to buy aserver, who owns it? what happens to it when (if) we don't play anymore. What happens when one person wants to quit, or when a new person wants to join.
I think the logistics of renting are easier, and less prone to cause arguments. If you're in for six months, then you want to quit, fine, if you want to join, just wait until the next six-month cycle begins, and pay in. It's way easier than figuring out who pays for, who owns, and who maintains a server that we've purchased.
I once tried owning a Nintendo64 jointly with my three best friends. It didn't work. I can only imagine what kind of arguments having a jointly owned server will cause.
If we buy a server it "MIGHT" be able to run multiple games at once (BF2, TF2, and UT2007)? It will cost a butt load but it CAN be upgraded and not be effected by the wax and wanning of the gaming world.
If we rent we pay less and we can stop anytime (6 months or year) but only TF2. We want to run a BF2 or UT server also, we pay another $50/ month.
So... it comes down to what we want to server; one game for cheap or multiple games over the life time but at a big price tag.
I would considering my contribution to this project as a donation and I would benefit from it as long as I participate in the site/gaming/whatever.
To do anything else we would have to have a committee that would decide about the disposition of the server and what to do with it at every turn.
What brought us together to begin was the Steam community thing. Until that point, I think very few of us - if any at all - actually shared xFire names with one another to see what each is playing. When I pointed out that you could make groups to Prime, one of the first things that came out of his mouth in the IRC channel was "and to think, we've been trying how long to a weekly gaming session going? NiGHTS you truly are the man, tons better than Thrax ever was" (or something to that effect).
The only reason we're able to play with each other so frequently is because of the Steam community friends list. Speaking in terms of long-term gaming, with that gone, I'd assume the gaming population would drop off a bit simply due to the fact that the ease of use factor is gone. We'd all have to download xFire and, depending on the game played, host a ventrilo/teamspeak server. Personally, I don't bother with TF2 unless I see an {IC} ingame already - the public is too frustrating to play with.
Now, should we buy a server and actually go through with all this, I'd assume a more serious {IC} gaming push would be made. However, with writing and news postings as sparse as they are (in terms of the community we have here, a small percentage actually do it) it would be very difficult to spread our talents even further. Harder, still, with the sudden influx of many key members suddenly having children or other real-life commitments.
I guess what I'm trying to point out is that buying a server carries with it the one-time monetary cost, as well as a much larger time commitment than we may not recognize.
Therein lies the first disagreement. I would personally not be willing to contribute to the purchase of a server if I was unable to retain some ownership and control of it afterward.
?!
The only problem with a democratic process is that it tends to lead to individuals who become unahppy with the direction, then want their money back, even though it was agreed that it would be majority rule.
Disclaimer mode on:
I am playing devil's advocate with that statement, not saying it would happen, but I am sure many have seen similar situations either here or on other sites. Too many cooks spoil the pot as they say.
Disclaimer off.
IMO you either trust people who already have experience with this type of thing or you don't and thus should not participate. That is harsh, and it is aimed at no one, so don't go there
I'm sure we have someone around here that would be able to program something to that effect, right?
On a side note, are we laying the groundwork for requiring {IC} tags to pay monthly if we were to rent? :-(