OCZ Platinum PC2-6400 & Dell Inspiron 531 = no go

GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
edited October 2009 in Hardware
I just bought a Dell Inspiron 531 system. The motherboard is an Asus M2N61-AX that is made specifically for Dell, as far as I can tell.

I tried to upgrade the system by replacing the 1GB of PC2-5300 with 2GB of OCZ Platinum PC2-6400.

I'm having trouble.

As soon as Windows starts to load, I get a BSOD every time with the new RAM. As far as I can tell, the motherboard does not supply enough voltage for the RAM.

There is no place in the Dell BIOS to increase RAM voltages, unfortunately. I'm almost 100% certain that I could get this RAM to work with this board if Dell would allow me to increase the voltage... or if I could find a BIOS that works with this board instead of the Dell BIOS.

Does anyone have any suggestions?
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Comments

  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Hey Ghoosie,

    Can you tell what the partnumber on the ram is? is it the 4-4-4-15 part? If so, then no, it most probably, not work on that Dell, since the voltage requirements is far mroe than what that dell can give. Does either sticks boot at all?
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Marcus, thanks for the quick reply. It is a 4-4-4-15 part. I haven't tried individual sticks, but I will do so and get back to you.

    Maybe I should have looked into this before purchasing - I originally spec'd this RAM for the C2D system I planned to build, but then this Dell deal came along and was such a bargain... I think I sort of blinded myself to just how far Dell limits tweaking.
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Well I checked with a single stick and it didn't boot in that config with either of the sticks.
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Hey Ghoosie,

    I am pretty sure that the board just not provides enough voltages. Any chance the sticks can be tested on another rig?
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    I might be able to, but I really think the sticks are fine and the board is the culprit, as you say. I'm wondering if it would be possible to locate a BIOS that isn't crippled by Dell that might allow voltage adjustments.

    Failing that, what RAM would you recommend for this board? I trust OCZ, so I'd like to stick with you guys if you make something with lower voltage requirements. Obviously I'll have to sacrifice performance, but would it be possible to stick with PC2-6400 at all?

    I'm thinking maybe I should move my post to the general hardware section, since I'm sure nothing is actually wrong with my RAM?
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Dude, you got a dell! :D
  • DanGDanG I AM CANADIAN Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    are you using the latest bios for the dell? Ram voltage was a real concern for me when I built my C2D system last year. I'd read a ton of no-boot issues with systems only putting out 1.9v instead of 2.1. A bios update fixed those issues, but you couldn't boot, so how do you flash the bios.

    Do you need the PC6400 stuff? IIRC the 5300 stuff worked without the bios updates due to lower voltages.
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    DanG wrote:
    are you using the latest bios for the dell? Ram voltage was a real concern for me when I built my C2D system last year. I'd read a ton of no-boot issues with systems only putting out 1.9v instead of 2.1. A bios update fixed those issues, but you couldn't boot, so how do you flash the bios.

    Do you need the PC6400 stuff? IIRC the 5300 stuff worked without the bios updates due to lower voltages.

    Yup, I downloaded and installed the latest Dell BIOS, 1.0.8, and still no dice. The BIOS is pretty locked down as far as options, so I'm betting I can't up the voltage above 1.8 or 1.9 without getting a BIOS from Asus or whoever the actual mobo manufacturer is.

    I'm sure I can get by with the 5300, but I'd prefer to get the 6400 if I can because I've read a few places that claim the 5300 is actually slower than PC-3200 DDR1. I'd hate to think I just downgraded to a new PC. :(

    Both my laptop, which is a single-core three year old A64 system running 1.25GB of PC-2700, and my ex-wife's PC, which is an X2 3800+ with 2GB of PC-3200 feel significantly faster than the new system. In fact I get better performance in TF2 with my laptop at 1280x800 with a Mobility Radeon 9600 than I do on the new desktop with an 8600GT.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    2.1v for PC6400? Good lord...
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    The Platinum 6400 is spec'd at "1.9 - 2.1 Volts"


    //edit: Anyone know a reputable place to get my hands on this stuff? Newegg doesn't seem to carry it but it looks like it's exactly what I'm looking for to replace this Platinum I bought.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NJFJ36?smid=A29PHU0KPCGV8S&tag=nextag-ce-tier2-20&linkCode=asn
  • DanGDanG I AM CANADIAN Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=21802&vpn=OCZ2SE8002GK&manufacture=OCZ%20Technology

    NCIX is a canadian company, but they do ship to the states. I've dealt with them a bunch of times and had great experiences.
  • DanGDanG I AM CANADIAN Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Thrax wrote:
    2.1v for PC6400? Good lord...

    I was going by memory, but I'm pretty sure those were the correct numbers.
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    DanG wrote:
    I was going by memory, but I'm pretty sure those were the correct numbers.

    *groan* - Bad pun! :bigggrin:
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Before I buy another 2GB kit and possibly shoot myself in the foot again, Marcus, can you confirm that this will at least probably work with the motherboard in my machine?
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    GH, a solution might be to get some of the really cheap junk (cheap, as in low performance) they sell at Office Depot. I'm sure it's low voltage wonder RAM. There is such a glut in the market right now, I've seen DDR2 for crazy low prices, even up here in the far north. Hmm, but then, the best prices have been for DDR2 667. It's just a Dell. Why even bother upgrading? Would it make much of a difference? Or were you increasing the quantity as well?
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Ghoosie, if you buy any of the low voltage kits, i can assure it will be compatible. if they still don't work, i will personally make sure you get sorted one way or the other. The problem with Dell is that they don't have a ****ing clue what's compatible or not when they put stuff up for sale. They only thing that stops ram from working in their systems is either memory voltage adjustments or lack of dividers. Luckily, they do sell their newer systems with the higher fsb cpu's as a choice, which means their bios must have some sort of support for more than just one divider. That's where we can provide products. We just program modules with both 667 and 800 mhz tables.
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Leonardo wrote:
    GH, a solution might be to get some of the really cheap junk (cheap, as in low performance) they sell at Office Depot. I'm sure it's low voltage wonder RAM. There is such a glut in the market right now, I've seen DDR2 for crazy low prices, even up here in the far north. Hmm, but then, the best prices have been for DDR2 667. It's just a Dell. Why even bother upgrading? Would it make much of a difference? Or were you increasing the quantity as well?

    Yes, I'm also upgrading from the 1GB that the Dell came with to 2GB. I figured I may as well increase the speed as well, since I figure that the memory controller in the x2 5000+ can handle PC2-6400.

    Basically, at this point, the machine can't even run TF2. I plan on upgrading to 2GB of RAM and upgrading from Vista to XP.
    TheLostSwede wrote:
    Ghoosie, if you buy any of the low voltage kits, i can assure it will be compatible. if they still don't work, i will personally make sure you get sorted one way or the other. The problem with Dell is that they don't have a ****ing clue what's compatible or not when they put stuff up for sale. They only thing that stops ram from working in their systems is either memory voltage adjustments or lack of dividers. Luckily, they do sell their newer systems with the higher fsb cpu's as a choice, which means their bios must have some sort of support for more than just one divider. That's where we can provide products. We just program modules with both 667 and 800 mhz tables.

    Thanks Marcus, I'm going to pick up the 2GB kit from directron - so as long as they actually send me the right part I'm going to consider myself ready to go.

    Great point about Dell - it's pretty clear that they have little to no tech knowledge.
  • DellCADellCA
    edited November 2007
    I checked the documentation, and the Inspiron 531 desktop supports up to four Gb of memory in four memory slots. This can be either four 1Gb DIMMs or two 2Gb DIMMs max. The supported speeds are 533, 667, and 800 MHz unbuffered non-ECC DDR2 DIMMs only. Both symmetric and asymmetric dual channel modes are supported. Unfortunately, the specs don't list the specific voltages used, although I see no reason why you guys are incorrect on what you list above.

    As for performance, definitely wait until you have upgraded the memory before changing operating systems. From everything I have seen and read, Vista runs best with a minimum of 2Gb of memory, while Vista with 1Gb is kind of like XP with 512Mb; it works ... mostly. If you decide to do the change to XP leaving the hidden 8 to 20Gb Image Restore partition will allow you to reload the Dell factory image (Vista) without having to use the reinstallation DVD for a manual install. Whether you leave it or not is, of course, up to you.

    If you have any other questions about the system I'll be more than happy to answer them.

    Larry
    Dell Customer Advocate
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Larry,

    Thanks for stopping by the thread. From your post it seems that the OCZ RAM that I selected will work like a charm on this motherboard. Since voltage is the only other reason we might experience incompatibility, I'll to assume that 2.1V was beyond the board's capability to produce for the first set of RAM that I bought.

    Is the documentation that you refer to available to the public? The reason I ask is that I'm interested in the deeper technical aspects of this machine, including any detailed motherboard specifications that are available. As I said earlier, I'm guessing the motherboard is originally made by Asus, but definitely not certain about that.

    One thing I noticed about the Inspiron 531 as compared to many other newer machines these days is that the discs provided were just about perfect for a tinkerer such as myself. Rather than a single "System restore" disc that automatically restores everything including AOL and other crapware I'm not interested in, the Inspiron 531 came with a disc for the OS install, a disc of mainboard drivers, and a video driver CD. That is something that I really appreciate about the machine.

    Thanks!
  • DellCADellCA
    edited November 2007
    I'm not sure what the incompatibility was, unfortunately, but the voltage is a reasonable possibility.

    I was looking at our internal training documentation, however, there is very little difference between it and the service and user manuals (http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/inspd531/en/index.htm) available on the Dell support website.

    Dell usually has a minimum of two suppliers for every part, when us providing them the specifications on what we want made in the case of motherboards. So it is possible you got a board built by Asus. I can't say for sure one way or the other, however, as from a Dell tech support standpoint its just "a motherboard".

    As for the reinstallation media Dell has always, to the best of my knowledge, provided actual reinstallation CDs and not recovery CDs with the computers. This has advantages and disadvages, of course (some people would complain about having to do everything manually while others complain about not being able to). The latest drivers are available for download from our support site if you need them.

    My usual recommendation, if you need to reinstall but don't have another computer with internet to download with, is to use the Dell Resource (aka Drivers & Utilities) CD to get the system up and running after an OS reinstall, and then get the latest drivers from the site. While the disk is probably going to be out of date within six months, it will always be enough to get the computer back up and running like it was when you got it.

    If you wanted to reinstall the third party software installed at the factory (AOL/Earthlink, trialware versions of anti-virus, Acrobat Reader, etc) there should be a Dell Applications CD with the computer for them. Most of the software is available for free download from the vendor, however. If you purchased full versions of any software you should have gotten a reinstallation disk specifically for it as well (e.g., MS Office, full versions of Norton or McAfee, etc).

    If you had any other questions about the system I'll be happy to answer them for you.

    Larry
    Dell Customer Advocate
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Thanks very much, Larry.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited December 2007
    Good to see Dell Support posting here. Kudos!
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited December 2007
    I received the new RAM yesterday. It worked perfectly and the performance improvement was immediately noticeable. I'm glad OCZ offers a PC2-6400 set that operates at 1.8V, even with slightly looser timings than the Platinum it is a night and day difference from the 1GB of PC2-5300 that was in there before.

    I appreciate the help!
  • DellCADellCA
    edited December 2007
    I'm glad I could help, and happy to hear you got things working.

    By the way, I don't think I mentioned it before, but if you are not still using the original memory in the system after the upgrade then I would recommend holding on to it just in case you ever need it for testing. You don't have to do this, but if you ever need to test to see if something is a memory failure having the additional sticks of memory will help a great deal.

    Larry
    Dell Customer Advocate
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited December 2007
    DellCA wrote:
    I'm glad I could help, and happy to hear you got things working.

    By the way, I don't think I mentioned it before, but if you are not still using the original memory in the system after the upgrade then I would recommend holding on to it just in case you ever need it for testing. You don't have to do this, but if you ever need to test to see if something is a memory failure having the additional sticks of memory will help a great deal.

    Larry
    Dell Customer Advocate

    Thanks Larry.

    I definitely intend to hold on to the original RAM just in case. I always do this on preconfigured systems in order to help things along in case of any warranty work.

    I had one more, unrelated question, regarding this machine.

    Do you happen to know if the motherboard power pin-out matches ATX 12V specification? In other words, since in the future I expect to upgrade the machine enough that 300W PSU might not be sufficient, would an off-the-shelf PSU from another manufacturer work without issue?

    The reason I ask is that I've had experience in the past with Dell using a proprietary spec on PSU pin assignments, that in best cases would lead to the machine not booting with another brand PSU, and in the worst cases had the potential to fry the motherboard...

    Thanks!
  • DellCADellCA
    edited December 2007
    The documentation I have implies it is the standard ATX power connections (normal 4 and 24 pint connections with the normal names, ATX_CPU and ATX_POWER). You can check the user manual (http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/inspd531/en/index.htm) for more information on it if needed. I just looked and it doesn't give the pinouts for the connectors, however. To the best of my knowledge Dell has not used a proprietary power supply in quite some time.

    The power supply installed by Dell is 300watt, by the way.

    Larry
    Dell Customer Advocate
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited December 2007
    To Imm and DellCA:

    I have moved your posts regarding your PC issue to their own thread, since they really do not pertain to OCZ in any way.

    You can find the thread here, in the appropriate forum: http://icrontic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67833

    Thank you.
  • chemojaychemojay
    edited January 2008
    Although this is a month old I have had the same issue with memory I ordered for the dell 531 system I have. I ordered the OCZ OCZ2G8002GK 2GB Kit DDR2-800 PC2-6400 Gold Gamer eXtreme XTC Edition Dual Channel Memory. Which is great memory I am sure if the bios would let you adjust some basic settings that we could make it work. However I ran Sandralite and it says that the mb is in safe boot mode. I wonder if there is a pin out that could be changed to unlock the full bios? I doubt it but thought I would question it.
    I am becoming more and more unhappy with the good deal I got on this dell.
    I am going to get some of the same ram you did I am glad to hear that it works well.
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited January 2008
    Yes, unfortunately it seems that the BIOS doesn't allow anything above reference voltage for DDR2. :(

    Hopefully there will be a future update to allow at least a minimal adjustment to the RAM voltage, but I doubt it - I've never seen a Dell BIOS that had much in the way of adjustment.
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