A good case for waterchill

EyesOnlyEyesOnly Sweden New
edited December 2003 in Hardware
Since i'm a complete n00b on watercooling i thought that the waterchill would be a nice easy way for me to go into watercooling. Reviews confirm this. But i still had to find a good case to mount it in, preferbly without to much modding.

Chieftec has some nice cases and before i'd decided to watercool i thought of the ax-01 sl-d aluminium case. Only problem was it's fansize, 80 mm. After doing some searching i decided to look for other brands. Antec seems to be liked by you guys so i was delited to find a swedish retailer with it.

The case i'm thinking about is the ANTEC SONATA 380W Piano Black. It's got a nice price, looks and most importantly 120 mm fanmounts. Perfect for waterchill. What do you guys think of this combination. Is this a good case for mounting this in? If not which case do you recommend.
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Comments

  • Al_CapownAl_Capown Indiana
    edited November 2003
    Correct me if I am wrong. Antec Sonata's are small and have terrible airflow.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited November 2003
    No correction needed.
  • EyesOnlyEyesOnly Sweden New
    edited November 2003
    I'm aware of the poor cooling but i figured i could stick the stock fan in the front and mount the rad in the back. Nearly rimed. I care more for quietness than i care for cooling but i don't want to overheat anything. So which case should i choose.
  • EyesOnlyEyesOnly Sweden New
    edited December 2003
    This is no longer relevant since i've decided to go for aircooling. Wc is to much hassle and to expensive.
  • mikimmikim Berkshire, UK
    edited December 2003
    That's a shame, as I am too a big fan of quietness on a system. I thought it would be a good idea to go down the aircooled route, (for cheapness), but found that with all the quietest gear I could find, plus using sound dampening, I acheved a good result.... but it's still expensive!
    Water cooling is pricey, but I intend to go that way, as I have seen how much quieter and more efficient it is. Plus, if you do decide to overclock it's a realistic possibility.

    Do it now, before you spend out on air cooling bits!:)
  • EyesOnlyEyesOnly Sweden New
    edited December 2003
    I have now decided to go for the dragon fulltower case just incase i want to do some modding or fit an wc-setup but i've never modded a case before and don't really know if it's worth it.

    I figured i can get decent enough temps with an enermax 92mm fan on the slk 947u and and the fan in the door on the case as well as an other fan i have. That makes it 1 fan in the door out and 1 fan in the front in and the psu out. I'm also thinking of a fan controller if it gets to loud.

    One problem i have with wc is that it mostly requiers modding and i'm not sure i can do it. I'm also having trouble finding all the parts. Swiftech is recommended in the forum but there's so many other brands like aqua computer or innovatek.

    Mayby i should think through it once again but i'm really pissed that no swedish retailer seems to have the swiftech chipsetcooler. Can you recommend a good radiator. It's said that black ice is overpriced so i was thinking about senfu Dual Fan Radiator.

    If you can talk me into it i just might go wc after all. Btw my upgrades will not come soon so i have time to look at several options and when i do upgrade i'll get a all new system so i can replace some parts if needed.
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Eyesonly,

    I know the feeling :/

    What about ordering from Norway? Same prices here, even cheaper in most cases.

    I got my blocks from the states as someone there sent me them as gifts. DIdn't have to pay taxes because of that.
  • EyesOnlyEyesOnly Sweden New
    edited December 2003
    I'm not sure about ordering from other countries and i don't know anyone in the states. I've been reading the posts made by bud who's also going wc and one of the tips for a case he got from you was about addtronics. I'd never heard of them before but started seraching for addtronics cases and found one here http://www.datorbutiken.com/se/default.php?artId=AD6896AB (it's in swedish but i reckon it won't be to difficult) It's about the 6896 which seems really good and most importantly cheap. 599 swedish kronor with a psu.

    Do you or anyone have an opinion about the case. I've read review that were positive but i would like to hear from actuall users.
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Perhaps the best midtower that can be bought. No problem reading it (im a swede myself :D )
    I am actually eying up that case as a replacement for the POS Prometeia case. If i had money, i would buy their full tower.

    Send www.gtek.se an email and ask if they can get it for you as they use to have it before.

    Here's a review: http://www.sweclockers.com/html/recension/rec_010629_addtronics7896a.php?page=1

    Can a case look/be better than this?!?
  • DogSoldierDogSoldier The heart of radical Amish country..
    edited December 2003
    And if it ever becomes obselete.. you have a roomy new spare bedroom for company.
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    The room above the 2 psu's is designed for a UPS.
  • EyesOnlyEyesOnly Sweden New
    edited December 2003
    Wow thanks mack. Looks like my case searching is over. So back to wc. What brands other than swiftech is good. Aqua computer and innovatek. Do you have an opinion about them. Do i really need a chipset cooler. I'm not planning to oc and if i do it won't be much. As mobo as wasd planning to get asus a7n8x deluxe.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    EyesOnly, it depends... are you planning on running a fanless/near-fanless computer? in that case, yes, you should get a northbridge water block. Passive heatsinks like the one on the A7N8X only work when there's airflow across them from cpu fans, case fans, etc.
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    I agree,

    Watercooling isn't the best thing acutally for a good overclock. Off course, it's better than the average aircooling but not that much better than high end aircooling. Another thing to consider is that you dont have to worry about that the fan might break on the north or anything. The radiator is the most important in the setup, hands down. I have 3 different waterblocks, Danger Den Maze 2, Aqua and the new Swifty and all of them perform just about the same with my radiator. I tend to look more how it fits on the socket theese days. Swifty´s new has a nice way where it's even easier than a good heatsink to clamp on and tighten. I am very tired of bolts through the mainboard. If you change cpu's often, you will understand what i mean. With a peltier, things would be different though. I'd say swifty.

    Theese blocks is what i use right now but only for a couple of days. The prommy is under construction.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Hey Mackanz... have you ever calculated the thermal resistance for your WC setup with JUST the CPU in the loop? I'd be curious to find out what the results are...

    I've been testing this blower setup I have, and while I'm saving the results for when I'm completely finished, it outperforms a 66cfm YSTech by a MASSIVE amount.
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    No i haven't. I have never used only the cpu block.
  • EyesOnlyEyesOnly Sweden New
    edited December 2003
    My plans are as few and silent fans as possible so nbcooler would be needed then.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    If that's what you want, I suggest you pick up a chipset waterblock, a waterblock for each hard drive, a gpu waterblock, the cpu waterblock, and the largest radiator you can get.

    I also suggest you heatsink the video card RAM, MOSFETs, southbridge, and RAM.
  • EyesOnlyEyesOnly Sweden New
    edited December 2003
    Any ideas for a rad that's good and not to expensive. As for harddrive cooler i think i'll go for the innovatek since the only other i know of is ac aquadrive which costs to much. Then again the innovatek looks like it could leak easily.

    Anyway thanks geeky. I used to have a list of wc things that i needed and i'll recompile that list now. As for tubing diameter. Correct me if i'm wrong but 3/8= 10 mm right. And 1/2 =12 mm. I'm used to mm so it's confusing when sometimes it says inch, another it says mm, and sometimes it's outer diameter and others it's inner diameter.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Good radiator that's inexpensive?

    I know nothing about water cooling products (I've never done it, and can't until next summer), but from what I hear, car heater cores are excellent, and they should only run you like $50...
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    EyesOnly had this to say
    Any ideas for a rad that's good and not to expensive. As for harddrive cooler i think i'll go for the innovatek since the only other i know of is ac aquadrive which costs to much. Then again the innovatek looks like it could leak easily.

    Anyway thanks geeky. I used to have a list of wc things that i needed and i'll recompile that list now. As for tubing diameter. Correct me if i'm wrong but 3/8= 10 mm right. And 1/2 =12 mm. I'm used to mm so it's confusing when sometimes it says inch, another it says mm, and sometimes it's outer diameter and others it's inner diameter.

    Whatever you do, DO NOT get Innovatek. You will regret it within a week. It's Lego if you know what i mean. Black Ice Extreme is a very good 120mm Radiator and that is easy to mod or fit into a case. If you dont have the money for the full monty, start with a cpu block, radiator, Eheim 1048 Pump, Eheim Tubing 12/16 ID/OD (Get it at a Zoo store) some "Y"'s, some "T"'s, clamps and some bits and bobs.


    This is just from overclockers.se but i guess you can find it cheaper.
  • EyesOnlyEyesOnly Sweden New
    edited December 2003
    So for the hardrive i should use the aqua drive. bits and bobs???

    Edit
    How is the eheim pump started and powered. Is is 230 v or through a molex?
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Eheim is definately 230v; they make aquarium stuff (which is how I'm familiar with them). They're extremely quiet, reliable, and well made. The only problem is that they're expensive, but they're worth it.
  • JimboraeJimborae Newbury, Berks, UK New
    edited December 2003
    I have a black ice rad and yes it appears to be very good (cant compare it to anything else) but it doesn't leak, it was very cheap (i'm sure the shop had the price wrong, paid £19 for it and they've since put the price up :) ).

    With a papst 120mm fan at 1500rpm its totally silent and still manages cool a 3 block system quite well.

    I would also recommend Hydor L20 & L30 pumps, cheaper than Ehiem, come with the right size fittings as standard and are silent.
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    The pump uses 230V as usual. Even if the puter is off, the best thing is to leave the pump on for several reasons. I'd rather spend 500 on a Eheim than 300 on a pump i have never tested or seen but that's just me. I never compromise with PSU or Pump though. Those are the heart of the systems.

    And for the harddrive, you dont need any cooling on it. I used fans to cool it before, but now i have nothing to cool them. They get hot, but well within specs. And a waterblock on a harddrive is just a waste of money and flow.
  • EyesOnlyEyesOnly Sweden New
    edited December 2003
    Ok so no hardrive cooling. Wel i could always slap a fan on it if neccesary. What reasons is there to keep the pump on other than the fact that i would prolly forget to turn it on. Perhaps i should get swiftechs pumprelay. I still don't understand what you mean with bits and bobs.

    As for clamps should i get the plastic ones you suggested or metal. I don't understand what you have against Lego but then again i've never tried to cool a computer with it. As for filling should i get swiftechs fill/bleed kit or a res. I was planning res but i'm not sure which is the best. If i get answers to this then i have my wc setup completed. All i need now is a sh1tload of money and to check some prices at local zooshops for eheimpumps and supplies and then i'm done.
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    There are several webshops where you can get the Eheims from. The zoo-shops are more than twice as much for the same pump.

    With bits and bobs, i mean adapters from one size to another etc. Not necessary but you'll never know when you need it and it's a pain when you need it but you don't have it. Just an example there. As for the reservoir, you don't need any. Neither do you need any fill/bleed kit either. If you place a "T" connection just after the outlet of the radiator (or just before the sucking side of the pump) and a piece of tubing that goes higher than the highest point of the loop, you have your fill kit already. The only thing i suggest you get from the Zoo is Eheim original tubing. The 12mm/16mm is awesome and you don't really need any clamps with that tubing but i use it anyway for safety reasons. Just let me know which blocks you have decided to get and i'll fill in the rest for you to get. If i where you though, i would get 1/2 ID fittings on all blocks at least. The radiator doesn't suffer as much as the blocks with smaller fittings for obvious reasons.

    As for leaving the pump on all the time, i mean that power on and off the pump all the time can severly shorten the pumps life and also mean that green stuff have more time to grow than if you have constant flow in the loop. Where in Sweden do you live?
  • EyesOnlyEyesOnly Sweden New
    edited December 2003
    Here's some answers.
    There are several webshops where you can get the Eheims from
    I'll look for them. Any suggestions.

    If you place a "T" connection just after the outlet of the radiator (or just before the sucking side of the pump) and a piece of tubing that goes higher than the highest point of the loop, you have your fill kit already.
    Ok i see. I should hold the tube in water so that the pump sucks it in. Can the pump suck air without getting damaged since that's what it'll do before the water enters.

    Where should i place the rad. Say i go for the 7896 then there's a big space above the psu. Or would that be a bad idea. I mean for the hot air that raises there. Both 6896 and 7896 have alot of room in the front below the harddrives. I could put it there. And i'm talking about the addtronics case if anyone wonders.

    If i where you though, i would get 1/2 ID fittings on all blocks at least.
    The blocks which i'm thinking of (swiftech) is for 1/2 od but the tube is 1/2 od. Would that mean that i need adapters. If i'm right then it's 6 of them for 3 blocks.

    Where in Sweden do you live?
    Karlskoga
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Charleswood :D

    I once met a team from there while i was playing American Football.

    www.overclockers.se is a great place. One of the better in Sweden.

    The radiator would be best to have in the bottom front with the fans sucking in air. A shroud helps big time both for temps and noise.

    What you do is just put in a "tratt" (that's swedish) in the little piece of tubing and fill it with...water. Well, you can actually start with the Water wetter so that you make sure you get enough of that. THEN continue with the water. You see, if you fill the line at the sucking side, it will be much easier. I did it the other way around last time i redid my setup and boy, did i have problems or what! A circulating pump will only work when it has water or fluid to....circulate so you must have the pump on while you fill it obviously.

    http://www.overclockers.se/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_59_81&products_id=636

    http://www.overclockers.se/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_59_81&products_id=573

    http://www.overclockers.se/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_59_80&products_id=261

    http://www.overclockers.se/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_59_83&products_id=335 (4 of them if you will have 2 blocks)

    http://www.overclockers.se/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_59_79&products_id=162

    http://www.overclockers.se/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_59_83&products_id=770 (about 10 of them)

    http://www.overclockers.se/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_59_83&products_id=166

    That's all you need from there. Then you just have to find Eheim tubing. Get the Eheim 12/16 tubing. It's green. Also, try to find some "Y" connectors and some "T" connectors. OC.se didn't have any but there should be plenty of plumbing places that have them. Just make sure they are 1/2 OD obviously since the tubing will be 1/2 ID.

    The pump will not be damaged if it burps air for a couple of hours. Just don't let it do it for days. After you have filled the loop and water is circulating, close that extra fill line so that nothing slips out. And as long as that line is on the highest point of the loop, the remaining air will find it's way up there in the end. It CAN take days to get rid of all air though.
  • EyesOnlyEyesOnly Sweden New
    edited December 2003
    Thanks mack. Wow that's expensive even without the adapters and eheim tubing. What other fans except the psu will i be needing. If the rad & fan is in the front then all i need is some fans in the back. As for shroud i've seen some made of cardboard so i think i'll go with that.

    I'm not sure what i should tell the people in shops if they ask what i'm going to use the pump for as they might stare at me blank if i say it's for my computer. Oh well i've got plenty of time to vory about that.

    The cost seems to come to something around 4000 swedish kronor. I sure hope it's woth it. With that money i could buy 2 waterchill kits or 6 or so slk947u.

    BTW mack do you agree with geeky that i should heatsink almost the entire computer. Does ram really get that warm even with little airmovement.
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