2 browsers, 1 crybaby

Thrax

In the endless browser war, Microsoft reigns supreme with eleventy-two billion percent usage. This percentage was cultivated by the ingenious bundling of IE with each successive version of Windows, thereby establishing a vast and trackless kingdom of insane and babbling developers. While there are a cavalier few who champion standards, they do so under constant, tireless tyranny from Redmónd. It has been many years since a true king has sat on Mount Côd, and thousands have chosen to plunge themselves into its merciless, molten depths or to drown themselves in sudafed, amp and beer.

One such champion, Opera, pleads for council with the rising provincial power known only as <i>The Union</i>. A mysterious enclave of lords, ladies, and merchants have stood fast against the monstrosity of bad code, crashes and malware. A new dawn approaches, a red dawn, and Redmónd had only this to shout across the land from the cracked and bleeding lips of its criers:

"OEMs can bundle whatever browser they wish."

A red dawn means the break of war, they say.

Linc

What is going on here.

Shorty

Is this still going on? Oh noes!11 teh bundled browser is destroying the PC world. No it's not. Get over it.

Now there is an evil part of me that wants the browser removed, thus having no internet browser for the internet niave to wreak their havoc with. They will of course eventually give £13,000 of their own money to Tommy TankEngine because they have been told they are the last surviving member of a multi million dollar family that they didn't know they had.

The humorous part is that without the IE integration, there is thus no browser for an end user to use to get their web download of Firefox/Opera/whatever else is flavour of the week.

I personally prefer Firefox and it's add-ons. Guess what? My mum couldn't give a small albanian province worth of care. So do a lot of other users. You are trying to convert the completely disinterested. They probably use it at work, familiar and simple.

Those who want to be intraweb elite can do, those who don't... won't and are incredibly happy with IE. Sucks huh? Get a helmet.

Thrax

I'm astonished that this BS is still going on. Really.

Setting a new default browser is as easy as checking a little box that says "Yes! Set this as my new default browser!"

OEMs can also easily bundle, as is evidenced by HP computers coming with Netscape and IE and presenting the user the option of which one that want to use at setup time.

IE sucks ass, but it's here to stay, and should not be removed just because a few minor companies get their knickers in a twist.

BuddyJ

WOLVERINES!

Shorty

Thrax, We park our cars in the same garage sir (as always)

Thrax

I don't want to park in your garage. D:

Leonardo

Is this still going on? Oh noes!11 teh bundled browser is destroying the PC world. No it's not. Get over it...The humorous part is that without the IE integration, there is thus no browser for an end user to use to get their web download of Firefox/Opera/whatever else is flavour of the week...
I personally prefer Firefox and it's add-ons. Guess what? My mum couldn't give a small albanian province worth of care.

Exactly. I thought the US Government was nutty - the EU government tech watchdog bureaucrats are worse, I think. If it weren't for the evil, bundled Internet Explorer, my parents probably would have NEVER made it on to the Internet! I don't use IE, I use Firefox. I am not though, the typical user who just wants to fire up the computer out of the box and have everything work. But most people are that way, hence Apple's success.

The question that is being asked lately of the the EU committees and Opera seems to remain unanswered: Why is it that Firefox managed to claw out a 17% share of the Internet browser market if MS bundling is so oppressive? Could it be that Opera is a small niche software without mass appeal? Oh, heaven forbid!

I'm sure Opera is a fine browser (it's been a couple years since I tried it), but let it stand or fall on its own merits.

By the way, did the EU-mandated separation of Windows Media Player from Windows result in any third party media players gaining more market share in the EU. (not a rhetorical question, I really don't know)

Thrax

Also, added a link which I forgot.

Enverex

Leonardo wrote:

Exactly. I thought the US Government was nutty - the EU government tech watchdog bureaucrats are worse, I think. If it weren't for the evil, bundled Internet Explorer, my parents probably would have NEVER made it on to the Internet! I don't use IE, I use Firefox. I am not though, the typical user who just wants to fire up the computer out of the box and have everything work. But most people are that way, hence Apple's success.

The question that is being asked lately of the the EU committees and Opera seems to remain unanswered: Why is it that Firefox managed to claw out a 17% share of the Internet browser market if MS bundling is so oppressive? Could it be that Opera is a small niche software without mass appeal? Oh, heaven forbid!

I'm sure Opera is a fine browser (it's been a couple years since I tried it), but let it stand or fall on its own merits.

By the way, did the EU-mandated separation of Windows Media Player from Windows result in any third party media players gaining more market share in the EU. (not a rhetorical question, I really don't know)

The EU is just trying to make sure that MS doesn't become a complete monopoly of everything computer software related...

Thrax

The EU is being a git. It's so simple to change browsers, who cares if it comes bundled with one? I don't even like IE, but I felt like changing, so I did. The EU is trying to legislate choice.

Leonardo

The EU is just trying to make sure that MS doesn't become a complete monopoly of everything computer software related...

Yes, I understand that, but good intentions are meaningless or even harmful if the resultant actions accomplish nothing. How popular was the Windows XP version (Europe only) that was without Windows Media Player? Did third party media players gain market share? How many computer buyers plan for all the mundane, ordinary software, such as browsers and medial players that they want to tack on to the bundled software load? Is the EU talking with HP, Acer, Dell, and the other computer assemblers to include third party browsers and media players bundled on new computer hard drives? Ordinary users want to pull their new computers out of the box, connect the cables, plug it in, and go. They are not interested in adding this and that and analyzing what, to them are obscure and frivolous features. It is not Microsoft's responsibility to expand pre-loaded Windows into a software library of other company's creations. It is my opinion that the term "crybaby" is appropriate in this case. Opera doesn't experience the success of Firefox, Open Office, and Cobian, so plays victim and asks bureaucrats to give it a boost. I have not read anywhere that Microsoft has threatened computer makers against bundling any software. That would be an entirely different case. I'm not picking on the EU. It's just always frightening when when government bureaucrats - whether UK, EU, US, Russian, or Iranian - start meddling in technical matters.

For the record, I use daily on several computers:

Firefox
Open Office
many other freeware/open source apps/utilities

If ever a Linux desktop OS arrives that will do all the things that WinXP does and will install just as easily, I'm sure I'll become a Linux user as well.

CB

Thrax wrote:

The EU is being a git. It's so simple to change browsers, who cares if it comes bundled with one? I don't even like IE, but I felt like changing, so I did. The EU is trying to legislate choice.

But if it comes bundles with a browser you don't use, aren't you paying for something you don't want? :P

airbornflght

Well, seeing as it is free for compatible operating systems. no.

Thrax

CB Droege wrote:

But if it comes bundles with a browser you don't use, aren't you paying for something you don't want? :P

Prices without IE bundled were the same as those with IE bundled. Try again.

CB

When I used that argument for Orange Box, that the price was to be the same before they decided to include HL2 and Ep1, you told me that didn't matter, you still didn't like spending money on pieces that you already have.

(no, I will proly not be letting this go anytime soon.)

Leonardo

It costs MSFT the same no matter what Windows components are or are not 'in the box.' If a handful of people don't want part of the package, it makes no difference. Price is structured on market demand anyway. Development and distribution costs associated with the software that is sold really plays little if any role at all in the final cost of the product. The included components to the product are essentially irrelevant to the price. It's just a matter of demand for the product.

bothered

Thrax wrote:

The EU is being a git. The EU is trying to legislate choice.

So very true. We see it more all the time. Nanny state will soon morph into Big Brother. Freedom is becoming just a word.

j

Thrax wrote:

One such champion, Opera, pleads for council with the rising provincial power known only as <i>The Union</i>. A mysterious enclave of lords, ladies, and merchants have stood fast against the monstrosity of bad code, crashes and malware. A new dawn approaches, a red dawn, and Redmónd had only this to shout across the land from the cracked and bleeding lips of its criers:

Thrax you should be the new movie promo voice over guy.

Thrax

**** yeah, I'd hit that.

sharkydart

Web coding standards wanted. While both IE and Firefox have their quirks, Firefox's aren't retarded, but IE's are; code usually needing extraneous attributes or arrangement that makes no f'ing sense just to get the page to display the same in both browsers...the opposing browsers being 'IE' and 'everything else under the sun'.

In my experience, most users of IE are unaware there are any other options, not that they are happy with IE over everything else. And hey, if they don't have any problems, there is no reason to use anything else. ...Brings me back to ripping on IE for their reluctance to abandon the "Only works in IE" b***s**t!

Linc

Complaint update from Opera

Shorty

Thrax wrote:

I don't want to park in your garage. D:

Why? Because my pimp mobile will show your car up? :bigggrin:

Leonardo

The "update" (pure PR fluff) could be better called Opera Continues their Whine. Oh no, they aren't suing at all! They just want nanny to intervene for them. Maybe Opera's leadership should ask the bureaucrats how the government boosted Firefox. Oh wait, Firefox boosted itself! People like it. What a concept.

Opera, answer me this: which PC manufacturer have you approached to bundle your browser? Oh, you say they won't bundle it for free? Imagine that!

(this post brought to you through WinXP, facilitated through Firefox 2.0.0.11)

Thrax

Shorty wrote:

Why? Because my pimp mobile will show your car up? :bigggrin:

My car gets me to where I want to go. :o It's all I care about in these tender, financial-growth years.