Good place to start O/Cing A7N8X?

MachineGunKellyMachineGunKelly The STICKS, Illinois
edited December 2003 in Hardware
My son brought his rig home from college that I built him so I get to play with it now!

Here's the deal: I wan't to modestly overclock his setup to improve his 3dmark 2001 scores. He gets 12,4xx now with only a multi bump to 14.

His rig:
A7N8X deluxe rev 1.xx BIOS Version: Nvidia - 42302e31
2100 Tbred B w/SLK 7 + 80mm crystal fan
Powercolor 9500np modded to 9700 w/cat 3.2's, no sinks
2x256 Crucial 2100 in sync, aggressive, no sinks(CT3264Z265 16T)
Raidmax 350 psu
Arctic silver on cpu + nb heatsinks
temps=40c idle 44c load
all stock voltages, only multi bump so far.

Question: Is there anything I can do from within the bios to optimise settings/fsb with the mem I already have to increase performance while not undermining stability? I would be happy to top 13000 in 3dm2001 if at all possible.

I realize faster mem would make this alot easier, but for now this is what I have to play with...Thanks for any suggestions! MGK

Comments

  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited December 2003
    First, install either the Omega Catalyst 3.4 or the regular Catalyst 3.4 for benchmarking. IMHO, they offer the highest benchmarking scores of any Catalyst suite.

    3DMark loves high FSB speeds, so it's best to raise the FSB as high as you possibly can. :)
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    I got my XP2100 to do 2.3 GHz the other day in an A7N8X (rev 2) with a bump up to 200 FSB and 11.5 multi... I also got it to do 13.5x166 (2.25 GHz) in a revision 1.04 PCB A7N8X Deluxe. If you get at least 50CFM going through that SLK cooler, you should be able to do 2.25 without much issue also. Try raising the Vmem to 2.7 and then doing 7/3/3/CL2.5 on that RAM (at 166 FSB) - it should do it no problem, as I can run Kingston ValueRAM PC2100 at 6/2/2/CL2 timings at 166 FSB and 2.7 Vmem.

    Boy that was a lot of gibberish I think...
  • MachineGunKellyMachineGunKelly The STICKS, Illinois
    edited December 2003
    Just flashed bios from original to latest and no boot. Checksum error. Scared myself for a min. Cleared cmos and reset things in bios and I'm good to go so far.

    Anyway, I tried to set fsb to 166 and I got a mem error. Had to reset.
    If I install new omega's I'll have to redo the softmod correct?
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    I don't know if the 3.4 Omegas have it built in, but I know that the 3.7 Omega I use has the soft-mod in the install options...

    So the RAM didn't like being PC2700, eh? Try to get your max OC at 133 FSB, then bench it, then OC the processor to 13x166 and leave the RAM alone, bench it like that. Sometimes running the RAM and proc FSB async will give you a noticeable benefit, if the proc OC is high enough.
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited December 2003
    MGK, if the Crucial you have is like the Crucial I have in my 8KHA+, it should be good for at least 150-155 fsb and 2,2,2,6 timings. Do a combination of fsb and multi and see what you can get. I'm running 1 stick of Crucial PC2100 Cas2.5 in that old KHA+ rig and 150 fsb with tight timings is no problem. Aslo, you can try bumping the vdimm volts up to 2.7-2.8 and see if that helps too while trying 150 fsb speeds.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    First:
    Do not push it past 200MHz FSB. I've killed my A7N8X TWICE doing this; the rev. 1.x boards can't handle it.

    Second:
    Set the vcore to 1.75v

    Third:
    Set the CPU FSB to 166

    Fourth:
    Set the RAM speed to 133MHz manually

    Hit F10, see if it'll take it.
  • MachineGunKellyMachineGunKelly The STICKS, Illinois
    edited December 2003
    That would be CPU ext freq @ 166 with a max multi of 13, and Mem freq @ 80% then for starters? (166x80%=132.8) with 2-2-2-6 timings as well? Or should I sneak up on the timings later?
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited December 2003
    MGK, you will get better performance running the fsb and mem in synch, even at a lower fsb speed(real world performance, not synthetic benchmarks). Try just bumping the fsb speed up slowly from 133 and see what the proc can do first, then trying to lower the multi and easing the fsb up till you find your ram's limit on fsb speed.
  • BudBud Chesterfield, Va
    edited December 2003
    I have a A7N8X deluxe too and wanted to do someoverclocking how do i know which rev i have? sorry if i butted in machinegunkelly
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    muddocktor had this to say
    MGK, you will get better performance running the fsb and mem in synch, even at a lower fsb speed(real world performance, not synthetic benchmarks). Try just bumping the fsb speed up slowly from 133 and see what the proc can do first, then trying to lower the multi and easing the fsb up till you find your ram's limit on fsb speed.

    Does that really hold with Dual-Channel enabled? I'd think that there would be plenty of memory bandwidth to back you up, even if your CPU FSB were higher than the RAM FSB... besides with an XP2100+, you won't get a multi higher than 15 at 133 FSB, and you can get much more speed out of the chip at higher FSBs, something the XP2100+ is easily capable of.

    Bud, you can find out your revision by looking between two of the PCI slots - it's silkscreened on the board... my deluxe says "Rev 1.04" and my A7N8X-X says "Rev 2.0"
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    MGK, 80% for the RAM speed is fine; the goal is to keep it at or below ~133-135MHz for now. I'd also leave the RAM timings at the default settings for now, and leave the multiplier at the stock 12.5... it's best to do one thing at a time. if it'll do 166x12.5, then try 13x or a higher fsb...

    One thing at a time; if you change multiple things, and then it doesn't work, you'll have to go back and figure out why. If you've only changed one thing, though, it's kind of obvious what it didn't like... ;)
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Geeky, the stock multi is 13 on the XP2100+ (1.73 GHz)... it's 12.5 on the XP2000+ (1.67 GHz)
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Ah. My mistake; leave it at 13...

    Stupid performance rating... got the 2100 confused with the 2000... :rolleyes:
  • BudBud Chesterfield, Va
    edited December 2003
    on my A7N8X deluxe i have rev 2 is that good?
  • CreepCreep Hell Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    That Crucial RAM will run at 180MHz, at least mine did on 2.6v's. No heat spreaders or anything just relaxed timings.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Bud:
    Yes, the Rev. 2.0s are better than the 1.xs in that they can safely do over 200MHz FSB speeds; the 1.xs had older northbridges that don't like it; they tend to die @ ~210MHz (at least both of mine did)
  • MachineGunKellyMachineGunKelly The STICKS, Illinois
    edited December 2003
    So far have safely reached 2128 mhz (16x133) with only a .25v increase to vcore (to fix crash in 3dmark 2001) and temps @ 48c and 23c.
    Now for the fsb!
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited December 2003
    Hey, sounds good, MGK. Sounds like you got the idea, hold the proc speed around where you're at now and slowly start dropping the multi down and the fsb speed up until you find what your ram can safely do. BTW, what are you cooling it with(hsf)?
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    machinegunkelly had this to say
    w/SLK 7 + 80mm crystal fan

    Looks like a good heatsink with a not-quite-sufficient fan.
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited December 2003
    :doh: I guess I missed that about the hsf.

    MGK, if you got around $15 or so to spare, get a Thermaltake SmartFan 2. They come with a rheostat to control the fan speed and noise to what you can stand. I think I've seen Thrax post that they'll move up to 70 cfm or so on high, but they're kind of loud at full speed, but you can adjust to to suit you. For sure it should be a much better choice for cooling than that crystal fan though.
  • MachineGunKellyMachineGunKelly The STICKS, Illinois
    edited December 2003
    I hear ya. This was originally built to be my son's STABLE rig for college. I'm just messing with it now! Not really meant for O/Cing.

    Mud, I got some wierd slowdowns and prog loading at anything over 150 fsb but the ram did take to the 2226 timings no prob!
    Got to within 50-60 points of 13000 on 3dmark 2001, which was what I was after anyway. Roughly 700-800 points better. Till I get some pc2700 ram and a better fan I'll leave it at 2 gigs and stock fsb (15x133). Temps are at 48 with 16x133 but stable. Don't wanna fry it tho.

    Where is the divider on this mobo? How do I keep from increasing the fsb to my peripherals?
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    MGK:
    There is no divider on the nForce2 boards; the PCI/AGP speeds are locked @ 33/66MHz, so your FSB speed has no impact on anything but the CPU, chipset, and RAM.
  • MachineGunKellyMachineGunKelly The STICKS, Illinois
    edited December 2003
    Geeky, Ahaaa! No wonder I couldn't find it! That takes alot of the worry out of it for me. Thanks bro. I haven't read the manual in a while, the boy still has it at the dorm with all the other paperwork on the rig in case there was trouble. I'll have him bring it all home next trip.

    Do you back off from your upper limit for everyday use or just leave at the highest stable settings? If things seem to hang or slow down I feel like I should ease up. Sound right?

    Mud, I do have a TT thermal fan in another rig I will swap with the crystal when I get a chance. Actually forgot it was in there! That should help hold the temps down. Thanks for reminding me!:thumbsup:
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    MGK, it depends on the system in question. My AMD dually and my Celeron Print Server are both overclocked as high as possible all of the time. BUT, they aren't overclocked much, either- the dually has 2 2500s, and they're at 1.875GHz, which is only a few MHz over stock, because that's the highest they'll do in the board they're in without modifying the CPUs.

    The Print Server is a 1.3GHz Celeron at 1.5GHz; it could go higher, but it's in another dual CPU board that doesn't support voltage adjustments, so...

    My NF7-S system, on the other hand, is not overclocked as highly as possible 24/7; it has done 2.51GHz before (and is stable at that speed in both F@H and 3DMark) but because I can't live with the Vantec Tornado every day, it's "normal" speed is 2.3-2.5GHz.

    And yes, if the system starts acting funny (that's a highly technical term, btw), the overclock may be too high.

    Finally, where is the thermistor on the thermaltake fan? If it's one of the older ones, with the thermistor in the fan frame, it won't do you much good.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    YES CREEP!

    My old pictures make a COMEBACK!
  • MachineGunKellyMachineGunKelly The STICKS, Illinois
    edited December 2003
    The TT fan is actually the 'cool mod' version with the HD activity and power leds that was in the first rig I built for the boy. It has the thermistor on a foot-long leader that I had placed between the fins and centered low next to the core of the Volcano 9.
    Should work fine if I can place it next to the core on the slk.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Yeah, the SmartFan2 (same thing, without the LED grill) is a great fan; you could use the included thermal tape to tape it to the CPU, right next to the core... or to the base of the heatsink, right next to the core.
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