Another PSU recommendation thread

mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
edited March 2008 in Hardware
I am selling my "old" 8800GTS 320MB to my brother. He has an Opteron 144 running @ 2.6GHz, an add-in sound card, and 2 hard drives. His current PSU is a 300W Antec TruPower and is all kinds of inadequate for this upgrade. He has a budget motherboard, will never run SLi/Crossfire, and probably won't upgrade this box again for 3 years but would like the PSU to live on into the next PC.

I am thinking about getting him into the PC Power & Cooling 470W Silencer.

Your thoughts?

Comments

  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    I've recently been through a lot of research for mid-range PSUs. In my opinion, here are two that are top notch in quality, user satisfaction, and silent operation. Both are reasonably priced:

    Corsair CMPSU-550VX
    OCZ StealthXStream OCZ500SXS


    I am running a Corsair 550VX and a 620HX. They are top class in quality construction, ultra stable voltage regulation, efficiency, and quiet operation. You essentially cannot hear them.

    PCP&C is still using server designs for their PSUs, which is good for reliability and quality, but gives short shrift to silent operation.

    Corsair - 5 year warranty
    Corsair & OCZ - sheathed cables, 120mm fans, high efficiency rating

    I think the PCP&C PSU you linked is much better than average, but not up to the standard of the Corsair and OCZ I linked, especially the Corsair.
  • edited February 2008
    I can second the choice of the Corsair VX550. I also have one and it is everything that Leo says. One thing to think of too, in choosing between the Silencer 470 and the VX550 is that the 550 would be a little more future-proof (if any that you buy today will be future-proof 3-5 years from now). And after rebate (if you do rebates) the cost difference is negligible between the XV550 and Silencer 470. The Stealth Extreme only has a 3 year warrantee compared to the 5 year warrantee on both the other psu's.

    If you want to be more future-proof, the Corsair TX650, PCP&C Silencer 610 or the Corsair MPSU-750TX would also be sterling choices. The Corsair HX620 is also a great psu, but Newegg is wayyyy overpriced on it. But if you look around you might be able to find a decent deal on it somewheres else.

    BTW, to give you an idea of what his system will actually have to have to power it, I have a Q6600 with an 8800GTS being powered by a Corsair VX450. And the Q6600 is overclocked to 3510 MHz. I figured the power draw on the overclocked Q6600 to be about 170 watts just by itself according to the power usage calculator here.

    EDIT: BTW Leo, the Silencer 610 I linked to is ODM'ed for PCP&C by Seasonic and is fairly similar to the HX620 in build quality and power characteristics. Uses a little cheaper brand capacitors IIRC though.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    PCP&C really needs to match their quality and reliability with modern design. Those rinky-dink 80mm buzz fans just don't cut it. Also, if you can believe anecdotal information, it would appear that the PCP&C PSUs are no more reliable out of the box than the OCZ and Corsair unit I linked. The anecdotal information supplied by user reviews at Newegg.
  • EssoEsso Stockholm, Sweden
    edited February 2008
    Many moons ago I was about to write a FAQ about PSU's, but ....

    There are many things that we normaly don't think about when it comes to the PSU selection.
    (Every time I try to do this it just ends up in one miserable FAQ :D)

    Read these informations ...

    Why 99% of Power Supply Reviews Are Wrong
    AnandTech Power Supply Test Methodology - Why It is so Difficult to Test Power Supplies

    Hardware Secrets Power Supply Test Methodology
    How Much Power Do Electronic Equipment Consume When in Standby Mode?

    Anatomy of Surge Suppressors


    Then just read a couple of test ...
    Hardware Secrets - Power
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited March 2008
    Thanks for your comments guys. I will be recommending the Corsair 550VX.

    :thumbsup:
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited March 2008
    Leonardo wrote:
    PCP&C really needs to match their quality and reliability with modern design. Those rinky-dink 80mm buzz fans just don't cut it. Also, if you can believe anecdotal information, it would appear that the PCP&C PSUs are no more reliable out of the box than the OCZ and Corsair unit I linked. The anecdotal information supplied by user reviews at Newegg.


    Don't cut it?
    The 80mm is actually cooling the internals BETTER than the 120mm other psu's use. Not because of the size, but because where it is seated. It isn't loud either.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited March 2008
    I wasn't faulting the cooling, Mac. I have though, read complaints about some of the models with 80mm fans being a little loud. Having not owned a PCP&C unit, perhaps I am speaking from ignorance. I do though, now have a PSU of OCZ's other brand - OCZ. I am now fortunate to own a ModXStream unit with modular cables - whisper quiet, power to spare, good craftsmanship, and solid voltage rails.
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited March 2008
    I have a PP&C 610W Silencer in my main rig and it is virtually silent. I can't hear it over the 120mm 21dBA Scythe fans I have in my case and on my radiator. That's under 24/7 folding and regular heavy gaming on the rig in my signature which should be a considerable load. It's also cool to the touch!
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited March 2008
    You'd be surprised at one of those older Antec True PSUs can do. I had a 330W Antec that I had back before the days of Athlon cores, before a TBredA even. It powered a 1800+, 2500+ Barton, 1700+ DLT3C TbredB, 2400+ Mobile Barton, and finally a 3200+ A64 w/X700 Pro, 2x Raptors, another HDD, 1gb RAM, and plenty of fans with the whole thing OCd. No one would recommend that poor 330W for that system and the rails were spot on read by a multimeter. Hardly any of us need 500W still unless we have SLI. Sure its nice to have headroom but running a PSU at 30-40% utilization is no better than 90%...
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited March 2008
    mmonnin wrote:
    You'd be surprised at one of those older Antec True PSUs can do. I had a 330W Antec that I had back before the days of Athlon cores, before a TBredA even. It powered a 1800+, 2500+ Barton, 1700+ DLT3C TbredB, 2400+ Mobile Barton, and finally a 3200+ A64 w/X700 Pro, 2x Raptors, another HDD, 1gb RAM, and plenty of fans with the whole thing OCd. No one would recommend that poor 330W for that system and the rails were spot on read by a multimeter. Hardly any of us need 500W still unless we have SLI. Sure its nice to have headroom but running a PSU at 30-40% utilization is no better than 90%...

    I agree that most of us run overpowered PSUs, but there's not too much I can do about it's lack of a 6 pin PCI-e connector when all available 4 pin connectors are occupied (don't really want to install two splitters only to tie the two free ends into a 6 pin adapter, doesn't sound too safe to me) Plus, this thing has like 14A on the 12V... yeah.
  • edited March 2008
    mmonnin wrote:
    You'd be surprised at one of those older Antec True PSUs can do. I had a 330W Antec that I had back before the days of Athlon cores, before a TBredA even. It powered a 1800+, 2500+ Barton, 1700+ DLT3C TbredB, 2400+ Mobile Barton, and finally a 3200+ A64 w/X700 Pro, 2x Raptors, another HDD, 1gb RAM, and plenty of fans with the whole thing OCd. No one would recommend that poor 330W for that system and the rails were spot on read by a multimeter. Hardly any of us need 500W still unless we have SLI. Sure its nice to have headroom but running a PSU at 30-40% utilization is no better than 90%...

    Another thing too, marc, about those Truepower/TrueControl/Smartpower units of that era. They were CWT built psu's, which isn't bad in itself, but they used some dreadful Fuhjyyu that will go out on you. I have a SmartPower 450 stting at the house right now that has 3 obviously bad caps in it, all the caps in it are the Fuhjyyu brand. :( The psu was still working when I pulled it out of service but it is only a matter of time before it would fail completely. I plan to eventually get some replacement caps for it and change them all out and keep it as a spare. Those psu's are plagued to die from bad cap syndrome, unfortunately.

    EDIT: One other thing is that power orientation of modern motherboards has changed quite a bit since those days too, with the modern boards pulling most of their power requirements from the 12v rail. And those older psu's just don't have the amp capacity on their 12v rail to deal with it.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited March 2008
    Yup. I just had to pull out an Antec TruePower 430 from one of my rigs. It had been performing perfectly for about three years, but was starting to cause abrupt system reboots. I haven't opened it up to examine the capacitors, but I may do so now. I still have an Antec, another TruePower 430 powering one of my overclocked quad systems (No. 4 in signature). It's two or three years old and is performing admirably.
  • edited March 2008
    Yeah, open it up and I can guarantee you will find bad caps in the psu, Leo. And keep and eye on the other one still in service too because it is at the prime time for bad caps to start showing their ugly bulged and burst heads. The SmartPower 450 of mine was about 3 years old too and was still running good, but it also wasn't being stressed real hard either, just running a socket 754 cruncher.
  • edited March 2008
    Having replaced many PSUs over the years, I've never given it much thought as to what brand to recommend - it was more a case of was it AT type or ATX but the most important point being was it quiet ?

    So, seeing these comments makes me wonder what extra benefit the particular choice offers ? I do appreciate that some Games machines can require more watts but on the whole this isn't generally the case.

    Yesterday I replaced a PSU in a server.
    It was a Extra Value Gold (part 126038 COLORSit 350w) bought from ebuyer and I think it was only about £12.
    But with a really large fan and excellent grill sides it is both very efficient and very quiet.
  • edited March 2008
    itworks wrote:
    Having replaced many PSUs over the years, I've never given it much thought as to what brand to recommend - it was more a case of was it AT type or ATX but the most important point being was it quiet ?

    So, seeing these comments makes me wonder what extra benefit the particular choice offers ? I do appreciate that some Games machines can require more watts but on the whole this isn't generally the case.

    Yesterday I replaced a PSU in a server.
    It was a Extra Value Gold (part 126038 COLORSit 350w) bought from ebuyer and I think it was only about £12.
    But with a really large fan and excellent grill sides it is both very efficient and very quiet.

    I know I wouldn't trust anything I'm working on with a psu that cost me that little, with the crap that is being pushed out the doors from China nowadays. A large fan on it doesn't make it more efficient, it's the internals that do that. And something that cheap, even if it's only a 350 watt unit, might not have good enough OCP to prevent a catastrophic event taking out the whole computer.
  • edited March 2008
    Fair points muddoktor.

    I'd only say that of the hundreds of PCs we've looked at over the years, the percentage because of blown PSU's has been very small. Furthermore, of those, the percentage where it has caused incremental damage to components such as the motherboard is really very small indeed and never has anyone lost hard disk data.

    From that experience base, we've tended to judge it on seeking reasonable sized wattage and very quiet/silent performance - this in turn has often resulted in a good compromise on price - previously we'd expect to pay approx £20/£25 + vat trade. I've only highlighted the COLORSit one as it was recently bought from ebuyer and because it seemed on the face of it such good value given our experience in use with it's range of connectors/quietness/lack of vibration but I readily agree I really have no knowledge as to its inners.

    I saw that ebuyer currently offer the higher end PSU's discussed such as the CorsairTX 650w at £65 + vat and the Corsair HX series 620w at £71.48 + vat. With them you get a 5 years warranty but whilst offering such a guarantee says a lot about the manufacturer's confidence in his products, nevertheless none of us really want to rely on any guarantee whether it's 1 year or 5 if we can help it - do we ?

    Is there a compromise PSU any one can recommend which offers quality but gets the price a bit lower please ?
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited March 2008
    itworks wrote:
    Is there a compromise PSU any one can recommend which offers quality but gets the price a bit lower please ?

    Servers shouldn't get that compromise.
  • lemonlimelemonlime Canada Member
    edited March 2008
    I'll second the Corsair recommendations. The VX550 and TX750 are both fantastic PSUs that will last for years. The VX550 is very similar in internal construction to the TX750 and actually has slightly better voltage regulation. Good quality Japanese caps in both models.

    I've had a PCP&C 510 for years, and it is a very solid PSU. I've heard lots of good things about the new Silencer series as well (the 610 and higher). They have 80mm fans, but they are spaced in such a way that they don't create a lot of noise. The 510 I have is very loud.. It has a 3-blade delta that just screams.
  • edited March 2008
    I've learned something here today - thanks for comments :)
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited March 2008
    itworks - Welcome to Icrontic. Please stick around. We'll be happy to discuss PSUs all day long, or any other tech-related topic for that matter!

    I can understand your comments on cheap PSUs, but don't necessarily agree. To roughly paraphrase, "If the computer works, who cares about the PSU name or quality." I would only agree with that if you are a system builder and your competition is such that it is imperative that you keep prices down or business suffers greatly. Yes, I understand there are customers who look at price first and foremost and little else.

    Another angle is overclocking. Certainly, maybe only one percent (or fraction of a percent) of computer users will overclock. I do, and the cheaper PSUs, regardless of power rating on the labels, quickly reveal their shoddy engineering and poor quality parts through fluctuating output voltages.
  • edited March 2008
    Leonardo at al

    I wouldn't say I don't care about the PSU - but you are right that prior to joining this topic I was ambivalent about them - probably because, as you've guessed correctly, that as system builders (in the past) we were pressed as to price in order to sell.

    This topic has opened my eyes more but given that we're not involved with Games PCs or overclocking, I was looking at a mid-range PSU that might give our end-users more reliability but still keeping the price reasonable.

    To this end, I looked at Seasonic S12 II 430W which is costing around £40 + vat.
    I see that Seasonic has a mid-priced range of PSUs offering a 3 years warranty throughout.

    I don't know if other topic readers would agree with this choice ?
  • edited March 2008
    OK - I've thought it through - if budget were not an issue I'd accept all the previous higher rated choices.

    A good compromise it seems to me - learning from others experience - is to stick with the Corsair brand with its 5 years guarantee but given less power need for our PCs, go for the Corsair VX450w currently available at about £35 ($70) + vat.

    Will get one and give it a try.:p
  • edited March 2008
    itworks, Seasonic makes quality power supplies and are generally a great choice for their power ranges. As a matter of fact, Seasonic also build several of the Corsair psu's, as well as the Antec Earthwatts series and the PCP&C Silencers too. All have different price points because while they are built by Seasonic for these vendors, the vendors themselves will specify particular components or changes to the design to meet price points. But generally, just about anything Seasonic puts their hands on should do you well. One thing about Corasir's builds is the fact that they spec nothing but very high quality Japanese made capacitors in their builds, where Antec or PCP&C might spec with Teapo or other brand capacitors.

    Like you, I used to not really look closely at my psu's until after I had an old Powmax POS take out 2 systems over the years due to bad voltage regulation and high ripple. For checking on various reviews on power supplies, I read at jonnyGURU.com, hardocp.com and a few other sites. The two sites I mentioned do very thorough reviews of the various power supplies they test, including taking them apart and checking build quality. Read some of their budget power supply roundups and see what an eye-opener it is with using cheap power supplies. :eek:

    EDIT: I have a Corsair VX450 and it's an outstanding psu in it's power rating. It is rated for 450 watts at 50 C too, so you don't have to worry about applying a derating curve to it for higher temperatures. And it is pretty darn quiet too. :thumbsup::thumbsup: Mine is powering a Q6600 machine overclocked to 3500 MHz and has a GeForce 8800GTS 512 video card and has no problems powering this setup. BTW, that VX450 is one of the Crosair psu's that is built by Seasonic for them.
  • edited March 2008
    Obtained a Corsair VX450
    It's fair to say that you can see an improvement in build quality.
    It is very quiet and runs smoothly.
    There are more leads than I've ever seen on a PSU - all well sleeved and long too !
    I'm more than happy to take on board the Forum's comments about reliability etc and accept it is a modest extra over the basic PSU's we'd normally use.

    Thanks everyone. :)
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited March 2008
    Excellent decision. That is a long term part with top notch quality and reliable power delivery. Additionally, you cannot do better than a 5 year warranty.
  • edited March 2008
    Glad to hear you approve of Corsair's quality of manufacture, itworks. That is one thing that impressed me with them too. I won't recommend a psu that I don't have 100% confidence in for longevity and power delivery.
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