My latest air cooling escapade

Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited December 2003 in Hardware
Putting squirrel cage fans on heatsinks isn't all that revolutionary; people have done it before, both with their own custom setups, as well as off-the-shelf HSFs such as the Aero 7 from Coolermaster.

But, I don't think anyone has done anything quite like this yet... ;)
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Comments

  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    ---NOTE---
    The heatsink in the above pics is an SLK-800; that should give you an idea of how big this thing is

    ----END NOTE---


    This is basically just the test rig... it's not very polished (ok, so it's not polished at all...), but it's not meant to be; I just want to see how well it works.

    The fans are Sunon PB1212PLB1 squirrel cage units; they flow 40.2CFM @ 56.5dBA. Compared to traditional axial fans, that's an awful noise/airflow ratio, especially for a 120x32mm fan; however, squirrel cage (centrifugal) fans have a distinct advantage over axial fans: they can produce far, far higher air pressures than axial fans can, and they deal with backpressure very well.

    Because of this, it should make them ideal for forcing air into the fins of today's ultra-thin fin heatsinks (which may be why coolermaster is using them).

    So, if this works, I'll build a better mounting bracket. But for now, I just want to find out if it works...

    I'll test it using my SLK-900A though, not the SLK-800 in the pics.
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited December 2003
    you sir, need help.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Well, if you wanted to hand me that roll of duct tape over there, I'd appreciate it... :D
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    I like the way you have the blower concentrated on the surface of slk fins ...a 70 mm fan can't even do that without some sorta adapter which I have never seen..
    But because of the extra large size of the cages this looks like an inefficent way to blow air thru the fins efficiently! lol
    I can picture the case side door now ...huge power bulge like on a funny car!
    keep it up you may be onto something.
  • DogSoldierDogSoldier The heart of radical Amish country..
    edited December 2003
    lol, yea...I have this image of the case doors constantly popping off from all that air pressure. Geeky my man, you are a Genius.. and maybe a tad eccentric.
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited December 2003
    Wouldn't it yield the same effect (helping with back-pressure) to just put two 92x25mm fans one on top of the other and mount it on the SLK-900A? Basically you'd have a dual fan that's 92x50mm . . . get a couple of those 66CFM fans from SVC and rig it up.
  • seversphereseversphere
    edited December 2003
    a2jfreak had this to say
    Wouldn't it yield the same effect (helping with back-pressure) to just put two 92x25mm fans one on top of the other and mount it on the SLK-900A? Basically you'd have a dual fan that's 92x50mm . . . get a couple of those 66CFM fans from SVC and rig it up.

    two axial blades on top of each other need to rotate opposite each other to have a net positive gain. So one rotates clockwise and one counterclockwise.

    Geeky1: Do those blowers sound a lot quieter than the rating? My 25cfm blowers were silent compared to a TT2 fan even though they have a 55 or 57 dBA rating. I hope those have enough pressure to make it work this time around. You made a nice little setup there. If you remember I had horrible results with the nidec gamma 30. I wonder how that 80 to 92 adapter will affect your temps. Good luck!
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited December 2003
    If that's the case then I guess my idea would require one fan to have inversed blades so that when it spins backwards it pushes air the same way.
    seversphere had this to say
    a2jfreak had this to say
    Wouldn't it yield the same effect (helping with back-pressure) to just put two 92x25mm fans one on top of the other and mount it on the SLK-900A? Basically you'd have a dual fan that's 92x50mm . . . get a couple of those 66CFM fans from SVC and rig it up.

    two axial blades on top of each other need to rotate opposite each other to have a net positive gain. So one rotates clockwise and one counterclockwise.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    YES!

    AIR COOLING POWER.

    <3 Geeky.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Seversphere, they're pretty loud. Think dustbuster and you get the idea. They're not as bad as a Tornado, tho.
  • seversphereseversphere
    edited December 2003
    If they are pretty loud then they probably will work :D Do they feel the same or better than a TT2 or Tornado pressure wise? I would have saved myself a lot of trouble setting up those inadequate blowers if I had just felt them blow on my hand for a side by side comparison and realized that they weren't even close to outperforming a TT2 much less a Tornado.
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited December 2003
    Geeky1: Any idea what those fans would put out at a more reasonable level like say 35-40dB?
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Noise Level:
    Hehehe... my bad. I said they were loud. The reason they were loud is because I had them on my bench PS, which is set for 15v, not 12. :rolleyes:@12v, they're not too bad at all, actually.

    A2J, I've hooked them up to 2 of the channels on one of my Nexuses, and at the minimum voltage, they're extremely quiet, and I'd guess that they're still pushing >40cfm, it certainly feels like a lot more than that, but a lot of that effect is due to the air pressure...

    Pressure:

    They can't even be compared to a tornado... it'd make the tornado look bad. :D

    Look; these things are powerful enough that one of them is sufficient to blow an empty aluminum soda can off my desk from a distance of several feet away; you see that huge metal assembly they're attached to? That doesn't sit quite level, and the screws push it up off of whatever surface it's sitting on about 1/8", so it's got almost the right setup to function as a hovercraft. Under those conditions, that platform actually moves a bit when the blowers are first started, due to the sudden rush of air.
    I'll throw together a chart once I get my room cleaned up a bit more, and you'll see just how dramatic the difference is.
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited December 2003
    Where's the cheapest place to get them (not necessarily those exact units, but fans of that type in general)? SVC?
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    I'd be surprised if SVC carried them at all. I bought mine at Fry's, believe it or not. I'm surprised they're carrying them, since 99% of the people that go there have no idea what the hell one is, let alone what to do with it (I can see it now... gee george, whatcha think it is? I dunno larry... looks like a food processor to me.... :rolleyes: ). Your best bet would be an electronics surplus place, probably.

    But you'll need BIG fans to produce decent airflow. An 80mm squirrel cage fan won't be good for more than like 25cfm, if that.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    BTW, these things draw 13.6w, and they have a 3 pin "motherboard style" power connector. Anyone else see a disaster waiting to happen, here?

    God, I'd PAY to see some bozo hook one of these things up to a motherboard header, and turn their computer on... ;D
  • seversphereseversphere
    edited December 2003
    encouraging words Geeky1. One day I'll mod the nidec gamma 30 I have to function as case exhaust. What are the specs of that sunon? They are huge but if you beat out the tornado and others can duplicate your results then lotsa people are going to start fitting these into their case. :D

    SVC is not the place to get them. LOL

    allelectronics
    partsexpress
    or other electronics vendors you may find when you search for a specific brand or model.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    2 Ball bearings, 1.13a/13.6w, 2800rpm, 40.2cfm, 56.5dba, 120x120x32mm, 250g.
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited December 2003
    I wonder if you would lose any pressure with ducting?

    Like if you attatched them to the ouside of your case, and ducted it inside to the HS (directly onto it, not just blowing over it) like in my ghetto picture.
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited December 2003
    I think ducting might make the air a bit too turbulent, but I guess it would depend on sharp the angles are too.
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited December 2003
    well, I was thinking of more rounded tubing, with rounded curves, no angles.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    if the duct were perfectly sealed to the blowers and the heatsink, you shouldn't have too much of a loss, no.
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited December 2003
    curves/angles. :)
    croc_ had this to say
    well, I was thinking of more rounded tubing, with rounded curves, no angles.
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited December 2003
    a2jfreak had this to say
    curves/angles. :)
    croc_ had this to say
    well, I was thinking of more rounded tubing, with rounded curves, no angles.

    when you said angles I was thinking sharp angles, like edges you kno? I'm tired.
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Never heard of a straight curve so yes, rounded curve would be right.
  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Great work with the blowers. Now mount them to the side of you case, with them outside, and build a duct straight down (over?) to the heatsink. Suck fresh cool air from the room.

    If you want to stack fans you need a fan that spins the oposite direction to mount between them. And super glue its blades in place. You don't want it spinning, just turning the air flow. You can make due with little fins made of plastic. Even if they are straight they help.
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited December 2003
    Isn't that what I just said? :o
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    croc_ & edcentric...

    and I'd duct them why?

    Maybe you guys have cooling problems or something... I dunno about you, but the air in all of my computer cases is at ambient temperature. Not "close" to ambient, not "near" ambient; it is the SAME temperature as the air in the room.

    Therefore, ducts are useless.
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Geeky, under your circumstances, only reason to duct is if PSU had vents on bottom next to CPU HS and PSU ambient is high. That is why HP ducted, Power supplies were getting CPU vented heat in them and overheating.

    John.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    That was a bad design on HP's part, then. The PS should be able to deal with that extra heat...

    regardless, I don't have that problem, so... :D
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