Oddly enough though we aren't talkinh about enterprise class CPU's here...we are talking about CPU's that are being marketed to home users.
I never once mentioned Opterons in this post which would be more along the lines of what AMD would like to sell to multi national clients...they are geared and marketed towards them.
If you think I'm full of crap then why do they make 1XX-2XX-8XX series Opterons if not for desktop, workstation and server applications and why sell a higher end aimed home use geared CPU at all?
The 754's and 940 as well as 939's will not do smtp and the simple fact that 754's and 939's don't support ECC ram should point out that they are designed and marketed towards the home user as well.
When it comes straight down to who the home user market is it's still going to be enthusiasts like us just like I keep stating regardless of whether or not anyone chooses to believe it.
I could give a whit what AMD does with enterprise hardware as I'll probably never be in the market for that kind of gear but I'll be an enthusiast until the day they pack my body into the ground.
And for those of you that don't think that we as enthusiasts matter, stop to ponder this for a moment, we keep how many companies afloat? Dozens? More? All I know is that without the "fringe" element that we are accused of being companies like D-Tek, Innovatech, Zalman, Danger Den, Koolance, Thermaltake, Thermalright and more would cease to exist or be operating on a much smaller scale than they are now.
We make a much greater impact than you stop to consider.
D-tek was one guy in a garage a year ago. You have no clue about how small these companies really are. Danger Den? Give me a break.
And I didn't mention Opterons? I mentioned amd64 chips. A current single cpu opteron MB and chip can be had for a few hundred bucks. They are meant to pound at Intel and high end P4's as a budget solution on the desktop not run servers. The FX chips which you did mention can cost upwards of 500 to 700 for a top end chip. And those are pitted also for desktop workstations that do not need dual cpu's.
The market they are intended for is geared by price.
It should be mentioned that in the Business/enterprise world Price=Value. AMD has historicly been seen as the low price/low value competitor to Inel. Now they are trying to change that with the Opteron/Athlon 64 series.
AMD is trying hard to upgrade it's image. It too would like to make a billion+ quarterly profit like Intel. They can't do that selling Sub $200 CPUs to us OC enthusiasts. But they can selling boatloads of $500+ Workstation and server CPUs to businesses and corporations.
However in time there will be >$200 OCable A64s.
***You know Mudd, if you had just unsticked the thread without comment, this discussioned would have never been revived
What really helps intel at this point is the people with in companies that decide what machines get ordered and what goes in them, generally the CTO or Director of IT have been working with intel for years, the count on a certain level of stability and consistancy, for AMD to truely take this from intel they need to produce and tightly control the chipsets being made. Intel is known for producing a solid chipset with a huge range of compatiblitly. Yes they had bombs everyone does. AMD however let via and others run rampant with with crap chipset after crap chipset. AMD takes a strangle hold on that end of things combined with the fantastic silicon they are crankin out in the athlon and opts and 64 lines and they can keep the price down, they will chizel away a HUGE share from intel.
There has never been an unstable Athlon (original, XP, MP) Chipset. Load the proper drivers and you wont have any problems.
Some Mobo manufactures however may have a spotty record building mobos based on those chipsets (PCChips anyone). But that's the mobo not the chipset.
It might be now, but when KT133 and KT133A came out, there were a whole slew of problems encountered, which Via finally stabilized with updated drivers but gave quite a few folks a bad taste in their mouth about Via. Nvidia has also had their share of problems too, but they weren't as bad as Via's initial problems. I think that the cpu manufacturer should be the one designing the high end chipsets anyways, leading the way for the third party chipset makers. That in my mind is the biggest real advantage that Intel has over AMD. As far as the processors go, both companies make some real good, stable procs (and some not as good too ).
It might be now, but when KT133 and KT133A came out, there were a whole slew of problems encountered, which Via finally stabilized with updated drivers but gave quite a few folks a bad taste in their mouth about Via.
Disounting Overclockability....
The KT133A was a great sucess for VIA. Many of us had the Abit KT7A and some of us still do (One running in my Moms computer right now with a Tbred) As I said - load the proper drivers. There were many arguments here about Athlon stability vs Intel stability which all boiled down to - Load proper drivers, use a quality PSU, Heatsink & Memory. The chipsets were fine.
VIA owned the Athlon chipset Market until the NF2 offered better performance. And there wasn't anything wrong with the NF1 except that the VIA KT266A was a faster solution.
Yes, that's something you can go to the bank with. AMD has done their dually chipsets but much prefers that a third party do their chipsets instead. I know that AMD has limited resources but I still think that they need to take a more active part in the chipsets supporting their cpu's.
Omega, I've seen that mobo before and it's kick ass. That's exactly what I mean too; AMD chipset for an AMD processor. Too bad AMD didn't make a version for socket 939 and 754 too.
The AMD8000 should support every A64 socket, The only difference between the sockets is the number of memory channels (& ECC/REG support) and thats controlled by the CPU.
I also believe that every A64 chipset is also dual capable. (that would be cooler if there was only ONE Socket instead of 3 - no more XP -> MP mods)
What really helps intel at this point is the people with in companies that decide what machines get ordered and what goes in them, generally the CTO or Director of IT have been working with intel for years, the count on a certain level of stability and consistancy, for AMD to truely take this from intel they need to produce and tightly control the chipsets being made. Intel is known for producing a solid chipset with a huge range of compatiblitly.
There is a lot of truth to this. I work for a rather large insurance company that is on the leading edge IT wise compared to other insurance companies. We have won all sorts of awards with the way we use technology. For some reason though all the IT and Networking guys all have the same thing for their personel PC's. Dellp4's and nvidia 5600's and lower nvidia cards lol
For some reason IT dunno why but they Love Pentium. I have a networking guy trying to brag to me about his Dell p4 2.6 system and how awsome the 5600 is blah blah blah.
I just want to grab the dude, hog tie him infront of my Moniter, and run 20 hours of benchmarks and say NOW say something Mother %^$#@&!
Again and again Networking, code writers, IT guys in general all say Pentium and Nvidia are the best. I don't know what they teach these people in school but it's like they are stuck in the late 90's. MY CIO just ordered a little over 300 p4 1.6's with 1 gig of pc 2100 mem systems from Dell. I can't complain about the 20inch lcd moniters though.
AMD needs to focus on these guys. They need to get involoved with IT schools etc. The higher ups are not going to change so they need start from the bottom.
0
LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited June 2004
Even though my job doesn't directly deal with IT, I rub shoulders with a lot of those guys at all levels. I haven't met one that is well-versed in PC hardware. They can configure networks with their eyes closed, but don't know squat about PC performance. Networking and PC/workstation hardware tech are really two different disciplines. The networking gurus who are members here at Short-Media are for the most part the exception to the sys-admin/network manager world.
Even though my job doesn't directly deal with IT, I rub shoulders with a lot of those guys, at all levels. I haven't met one that is well-versed in PC hardware. They can configure networks with their eyes closed, but don't know squat about PC performance.
Truer words were never said
0
Straight_ManGeeky, in my own wayNaples, FLIcrontian
edited June 2004
Well, even Folding is TESTING an Opteron server (they put it in production, but whether or not they will buy more will be dependent in part on the servers' performance versus Intel servers they have or have performance figures for), but so are at least two government research labs (although their rigs are large clusters of Opteron boxes).
AMD has traditionally had to fight for more market share, but they are getting some of the market in educational and institutional markets. Funny thing, where the scientists and educators have boxes of Intel or AMD kind, they promote them, and students and techs listen to that some. Traditionally, kids were taught Intel (and many of the kids became business owners or managers at some level and carried their education with them into business practices), that is what the schools had, but as the shift happens, longer term prospects for AMD are starting to look brighter and not dimmer. People say "how could AMD survive the German FAB build cost if revenues are not great" BUT, a chunk of the FAB build cost came from GRANTS and some of the running costs were offset with Tax limitation agreements. GERMANY WANTED THAT FAB BUILT THERE, AND HELPED FUND IT!
Then there is a new-to-be kid on the system architecture block, the CELL processor, an IBM\Sony partnership gen of CPU and new O\S to boot (publisher, Sony, in the FUTURE... !!!).
Comments
D-tek was one guy in a garage a year ago. You have no clue about how small these companies really are. Danger Den? Give me a break.
And I didn't mention Opterons? I mentioned amd64 chips. A current single cpu opteron MB and chip can be had for a few hundred bucks. They are meant to pound at Intel and high end P4's as a budget solution on the desktop not run servers. The FX chips which you did mention can cost upwards of 500 to 700 for a top end chip. And those are pitted also for desktop workstations that do not need dual cpu's.
The market they are intended for is geared by price.
tex
AMD is trying hard to upgrade it's image. It too would like to make a billion+ quarterly profit like Intel. They can't do that selling Sub $200 CPUs to us OC enthusiasts. But they can selling boatloads of $500+ Workstation and server CPUs to businesses and corporations.
However in time there will be >$200 OCable A64s.
***You know Mudd, if you had just unsticked the thread without comment, this discussioned would have never been revived
my .02
Gobbles
Some Mobo manufactures however may have a spotty record building mobos based on those chipsets (PCChips anyone). But that's the mobo not the chipset.
It might be now, but when KT133 and KT133A came out, there were a whole slew of problems encountered, which Via finally stabilized with updated drivers but gave quite a few folks a bad taste in their mouth about Via. Nvidia has also had their share of problems too, but they weren't as bad as Via's initial problems. I think that the cpu manufacturer should be the one designing the high end chipsets anyways, leading the way for the third party chipset makers. That in my mind is the biggest real advantage that Intel has over AMD. As far as the processors go, both companies make some real good, stable procs (and some not as good too
AMD8000.
That is all.
AMD8000.
That is all.
Disounting Overclockability....
The KT133A was a great sucess for VIA. Many of us had the Abit KT7A and some of us still do (One running in my Moms computer right now with a Tbred) As I said - load the proper drivers. There were many arguments here about Athlon stability vs Intel stability which all boiled down to - Load proper drivers, use a quality PSU, Heatsink & Memory. The chipsets were fine.
VIA owned the Athlon chipset Market until the NF2 offered better performance. And there wasn't anything wrong with the NF1 except that the VIA KT266A was a faster solution.
Tyan Dual Opteron Mobo K8W AMD8000 chipset
If Tyan builds a mobo with a chipset It's stable - Period. (although performance may vary)
Stock stability is one thing, OC'd stability is another.
Yes, that's something you can go to the bank with. AMD has done their dually chipsets but much prefers that a third party do their chipsets instead. I know that AMD has limited resources but I still think that they need to take a more active part in the chipsets supporting their cpu's.
Omega, I've seen that mobo before and it's kick ass. That's exactly what I mean too; AMD chipset for an AMD processor. Too bad AMD didn't make a version for socket 939 and 754 too.
I also believe that every A64 chipset is also dual capable. (that would be cooler if there was only ONE Socket instead of 3 - no more XP -> MP mods)
There is a lot of truth to this. I work for a rather large insurance company that is on the leading edge IT wise compared to other insurance companies. We have won all sorts of awards with the way we use technology. For some reason though all the IT and Networking guys all have the same thing for their personel PC's. Dellp4's and nvidia 5600's and lower nvidia cards lol
For some reason IT dunno why but they Love Pentium. I have a networking guy trying to brag to me about his Dell p4 2.6 system and how awsome the 5600 is blah blah blah.
I just want to grab the dude, hog tie him infront of my Moniter, and run 20 hours of benchmarks and say NOW say something Mother %^$#@&!
Again and again Networking, code writers, IT guys in general all say Pentium and Nvidia are the best. I don't know what they teach these people in school but it's like they are stuck in the late 90's. MY CIO just ordered a little over 300 p4 1.6's with 1 gig of pc 2100 mem systems from Dell. I can't complain about the 20inch lcd moniters though.
AMD needs to focus on these guys. They need to get involoved with IT schools etc. The higher ups are not going to change so they need start from the bottom.
Truer words were never said
AMD has traditionally had to fight for more market share, but they are getting some of the market in educational and institutional markets. Funny thing, where the scientists and educators have boxes of Intel or AMD kind, they promote them, and students and techs listen to that some. Traditionally, kids were taught Intel (and many of the kids became business owners or managers at some level and carried their education with them into business practices), that is what the schools had, but as the shift happens, longer term prospects for AMD are starting to look brighter and not dimmer. People say "how could AMD survive the German FAB build cost if revenues are not great" BUT, a chunk of the FAB build cost came from GRANTS and some of the running costs were offset with Tax limitation agreements. GERMANY WANTED THAT FAB BUILT THERE, AND HELPED FUND IT!
Then there is a new-to-be kid on the system architecture block, the CELL processor, an IBM\Sony partnership gen of CPU and new O\S to boot (publisher, Sony, in the FUTURE... !!!).