Build me a folding machine.

fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
edited November 2008 in Hardware
ok gents(gals?) need your help building a folding machine. Was thinking the build around a quad cpu. Would also like dual PCIE 16x slots so I can use two video cards for GPU2

I would like the 2 video cards to be best price/folding ratio. As in cheap, but handle GPU2 well.

Pretty much just post a CPU, Motherboard, Video cards if you would. I think I can handle the rest of the system :rockon:

This way I could do dual SMP and dual GPU2. Mirite?

Comments

  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    It's my understanding that the 9600GSO is the best $$$/PPD card out there right now. I've seen people getting ~4500PPD out of these and they can be found for less than $80. However, with cards like the HD4830 and a new ATI client supposedly around the corner, who knows what things will look like in a few months. Either way, the 9600GSO is a good buy for GPU2. Just make sure you get the right GSO as there are a few flavors out there, you want the one with a 192-bit memory interface.

    If you are running dual GPU2 you should only run a single instance of SMP as each GPU2 client will need an entire core to itself, leaving you with 2 for SMP (assuming you go quad).

    If you want to keep the cost low you could even drop SMP altogether and get a dual. You'd still be pushing 9K from that box.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    Quad is an excellent choice, it will allow multiple GPU units. Best bang for the buck for video cards would be 8800GT, 9800GT, or 9800GX2 if you can find one for $200 or less. Shop the used market. There are lots of 8800GTs going for under $100. 9800GX2s are not easy to find, but they are out there. A 9800GX2 will have about the same production as two 8800GTs combined, but will use less energy than two 8800GTs.

    BTW, you don't need two PCI-e X16 slots. GPU2 Folding works equally well on any PCI-E video slot. A PCI-E X4 slot for the second works just great.
    with cards like the HD4830 and a new ATI client supposedly around the corner
    In my opinion, bullocks! There is nothing firm, nothing at all promised concerning those mythical new drivers. It's just a hope at this point. Keep in mind, when Pande Group announces something for the future, it may be three months, it may be three years. Pande readily admits that.

    Hey, I really hope ATI DOES HAVE drivers and GPU architecture in the near future better optimized for Folding. ATI and Nvidia are at a draw for gaming, but for Folding@Home, Nvidia is king.

    Post Edit: I would just advise anyone running video cards for Folding@Home to realize that those cards will be running full load as long as Folding is on. Do NOT take case ventilation for granted.

    Now, if you really want a no holds barred monster Folder, get the MSI motherboard with quad SLI and run four 9800GX2 video cards, for a total of eight GPU2 clients. That's a theoretical PPD beast of 40,000PPD. :hair::eek3: That would be a power draw on the video cards alone of about 650-700Watts, without overclocking.

    There are, as a matter of fact, quite a number of people running four 9800 or 8800 video cards in one machine.

    I just purchased a used 9800GX2 and am eagerly awaiting the Priority Flat Rate deliver. (Go USPS! :thumbup)

    Mason, you mentioned finding 9600GSO cards for under $80. Yes that would put it in the league bang-for-buck league with the 88/9800GT. But you can find 8800GTs lightly used for under $100.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    you want the one with a 192-bit memory interface
    The most important specification of a Nvidia video card Folding is the shader clock. It is more important than memory quantity and speed and GPU core clock. The next most important specification is stream processors. Shader - the higher the better; stream processors - the more the better. Pretty simple.

    Again, those specifications concern Nvidia GPUs.
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    9600GSO is a re-badged 8800GS. There is a recertified 9600GSO on Newegg for $60 which makes it not only the best card for GPU2 in terms of PPD/$$$ but also in terms of power consumption, even if you buy new.

    I forget who I stole this graph from, I believe it was foldingforum.org (EDIT: found it, good thread)
    GPU2PPD.gif

    (EDIT: And actually, now that I look further at the graph It factors the price of a GX2 @ $179 which makes the GSO an even better deal as I've never seen a GX2 that cheap, must be an error?!?. A few of the other prices are questionable as well although the price for a new 8800GS/9600GSO is accurate. I checked alternate sources for power consumption and PPD; the numbers here are all accurate in that regard)

    In terms of an economical and effecient folding rig, the 9600GSO/8800GS looks to be the card to have. Only the 8800GT 256MB comes close. It should also be noted that both of these cards would allow shader overclocking to essentially the same speed, resulting in up to 5000PPD from either.
    Leonardo wrote:
    The most important specification of a Nvidia video card Folding is the shader clock. It is more important than memory quantity and speed and GPU core clock. The next most important specification is stream processors. Shader - the higher the better; stream processors - the more the better. Pretty simple.

    Again, those specifications concern Nvidia GPUs.

    The reason I specified 192-bit is that they have 96 shaders, where the 128-bit GSO cards (which I actually don't see too many of these days) only have 48. When buying online the number of shaders is usually listed, however the packaging itself does not display the number of shaders, but does specify the memory interface.
    Leonardo wrote:
    I just purchased a used 9800GX2 and am eagerly awaiting the Priority Flat Rate deliver.

    :respect:Wow, Leo. Is this going to put you up to almost 50K PPD? Or is this replacing an existing card?


    :cheers:
  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    I figure that I have a case, memory, and CD
    mobo $100
    PSU $80
    2 video cards $110 each
    $110
    Quad Q8200 $200
    XP pro $140

    This comes to $750 shipped from egg.

    Can you beat it??????????????????

    This is what I am looking at:

    Recertified: EVGA 512-P3-N841-RX GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card
    * Core clock: 670MHz
    * Stream Processors: 128
    * Memory Clock: 1940MHz
    * Model #: 512-P3-N841-RX
    * Item #: N82E16814130401
    * Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy
    * Your Price:$109.99

    With this mobo:

    ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
    * CPU Type: Quad-core / Core 2 Extreme / Core 2 Duo / Pentium
    * FSB: 1600/1333MHz
    * South Bridge: Intel ICH10R
    * Number of Memory Slots: 4×240pin
    * Memory Standard: DDR2 1200
    * Maximum Memory Supported: 8GB
    * Channel Supported: Dual Channel
    * PCI Express 2.0 x16: 2 x PCI Express 2.0 x16 slots, support ATI CrossFireX technology at x8 link (black at max. x8 link)
    * Model #: P5Q Pro
    * Item #: N82E16813131299
    * Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy
    * Original Price: $129.99
    * You Save: $15.00
    * Your Price:$114.99
    * Mail-In Rebate pdf:N82E16813131299 $15.00
    * Price after rebateN82E16813131299(s):$99.99

    In a combo you can get this PSU for $80.
    Rosewill RX750-D-B 750W 80Plus Certified, ATX12V v2.2 & EPS12V v2.91 SLI 8800GTX SLI CrossFire Ready Active PFC PFC Power Supply - Retail
    Item #: N82E16817182069
  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    p.s. this would let me turn off both current machines and still add nearly 10k/day
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    this would let me turn off both current machines and still add nearly 10k/day
    That's right - Folding farm in a box. Five years ago we sure didn't see this coming!
    Or is this [9800GX2] replacing an existing card?
    The 9800GX2 is replacing an 8800GT in a machine with only one PCI-E video slot. The 8800GT that's pulled out will be added to a machine with two PCI-E slots, for a new total of two cards in that other machine. So this will be a net gain of two G92 processors.
  • jj Sterling Heights, MI Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    my folding machine is my wife ... hahahahha
  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    My wife uses one of those blue plastic things that goes 'flip-flip' so all of your shirts come out exactly the same size.

    But she costs a hella lot more than a computer
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    I see neither 9600GSO or 9800GX2 on newegg.
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    9600GSO for $79, new:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150320

    9600GSO w/ dual slot cooler for $59, recertified:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130423

    the 9800GX2 is not currently listed on Newegg and is getting hard to find in general. There are a few places that still carry it new, check the IC Marketplace:

    http://icrontic.pgpartner.com/search_attrib.php/page_id=5/form_keyword=9800GX2/st=sort/sortby=priceA

    You might also try searching trade forums and the likes for a used GX2, new will run you $300+
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    ok, and a motherboard?

    if I went with two 9600GSO's

    EDIT:

    ok ordered the $59 9600GSO

    I'm assuming I dont need identical video cards since I see Leo doesn't.

    I'll do the 2nd video card down the road.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    I see neither 9600GSO or 9800GX2 on newegg.
    I don't think anyone is still making them. What remains is just unsold stock or used.
    $59 9600GSO
    Outstanding!
    I'm assuming I dont need identical video cards since I see Leo doesn't.
    Right, for dual video cards you do NOT use SLI or Crossfire. You treat each card as a completely separate device.

    Here's an excellent guide for setup - single or multi-GPU Folding.
  • _k_k P-Town, Texas Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    When you get that thing set up and a good ppd post it up I am really interested. Might make a good Christmas present for myself, 3 of those.
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    The only foreseeable problem with the inexpensive cards is that as the larger protein WU roll out you will see a drop in PPD because they just don't have the shader count to keep up. I think in the next 12 months you'll see the entire 8/9 series Nvidia cards take a hit. Hell, even the GTX 260 is taking a drop with WU 5749-5764. The larger WU are better for the science though, so whatever.
  • _k_k P-Town, Texas Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    But at that price:ppd ratio its pretty good. I was looking at dual 4830s at $100+ and they are only getting 2500 currently. Even if the next big driver update for ATI increases ppd for all their cards I have a feeling it still won't match what those cards will do with the larger WUs. 5759 and 5761 are already killing my production.
  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    I just realized that I can take a short cut.
    A pair of cards will go into my old LanParty 4 mobo.
    All that I need are the cards..............
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    edcentric wrote:
    I just realized that I can take a short cut.
    A pair of cards will go into my old LanParty 4 mobo.
    All that I need are the cards..............

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150320 $79 each
  • TBonZTBonZ Ottawa, ON Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    Leonardo wrote:
    Right, for dual video cards you do NOT use SLI or Crossfire. You treat each card as a completely separate device.

    Does this extend to different manufacturers? As in one ATi and one NVIDIA? /me hopes so....
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    As far as I know, no, there is no SLI or Crossfire mode for any Folding@Home client. You can a GPU2 Folding work unit in Crossfire or SLI, but production will be about the same as through a single GPU core.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    Fatcat, good news. GPU2 and WinSMP can now be run simultaneously on a dual core processor. The new Nvidia beta 180.60/70 drivers reduce CPU core utilization for the GPU client to about 1%. No, that's not a typo.
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    Leonardo wrote:
    Fatcat, good news. GPU2 and WinSMP can now be run simultaneously on a dual core processor. The new Nvidia beta 180.60/70 drivers reduce CPU core utilization for the GPU client to about 1%. No, that's not a typo.

    Excellent news!

    So, any recommendations for a motherboard?
  • _k_k P-Town, Texas Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    To be a little more specific the new cuda drivers put CPU usage down to about .5%.........my SMP is now running on four cores while I have two GPU2 clients.

    Boards
    DFI x38 for dual x16 if you ever want to use it for something else
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813136045
    or
    DFI BI-P45
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813136060

    since we love DFI cause they are sex.
  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    TBonZ wrote:
    Does this extend to different manufacturers? As in one ATi and one NVIDIA? /me hopes so....

    So long as you aren't running Vista that should be fine.
  • Dilbert-FirestormDilbert-Firestorm Nuclear Wasteland, Gretna, LA New
    edited November 2008
    excuse me, Folding???

    I must be behind times. its the first time I've seen used as a reference to a graphics card or system.
  • _k_k P-Town, Texas Icrontian
    edited November 2008
    http://icrontic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3 read this
    http://icrontic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72189 read the start of this
    that should catch you up to a point
  • Dilbert-FirestormDilbert-Firestorm Nuclear Wasteland, Gretna, LA New
    edited November 2008
    _k_ wrote:
    http://icrontic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3 read this
    http://icrontic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72189 read the start of this
    that should catch you up to a point

    thanx that stuff is informative. at least I know what folding is all about.

    that folding stuff is very interesting. its interesting as the Seti & that code breaking project was.

    is anyone doing all three?
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