Old timer became a Newbie
Hi guys, so I've been out of the loop for several years. I came back, tried to do some research, and its all just really confusing me. Can anybody give me the quick summary of whats happening now? I need to gather info cos I'm building a new computer. Haven't really decided on a budget yet. Hopefully you guys can help.
1. AMD processors seem to have gotten lousier.. The performance gap really got alot bigger, am I right? Intel even more expensive than last time. AMD really not even trying for the high end segment anymore? or they just cant keep up with intel?
2. RAM. OMG. There are like 16294389 types of ram out there. DDR2? DDR3? I remember when DDR333 was considered bleeding edge and to have 2 gigs of ram was serious overkill. Now what do I look for in RAM?
3. Graphics cards? Now there seems to be like.. 5 or 6 market segments. low end mainstream.. mid mainstream, high end mainstream(HD4670), low end performance(HD4830), mid performance(HD4850), and extreme 1337ness(HD4870 x2, 260, 280, etc.)
4. CHIPSETS. I REALLY CANT FIND A DECENT CHIPSET ROUNDUP OUT THERE. Can anybody give me the skinny on chipsets? both intel and amd.
So... erm.. can anybody help me out?
1. AMD processors seem to have gotten lousier.. The performance gap really got alot bigger, am I right? Intel even more expensive than last time. AMD really not even trying for the high end segment anymore? or they just cant keep up with intel?
2. RAM. OMG. There are like 16294389 types of ram out there. DDR2? DDR3? I remember when DDR333 was considered bleeding edge and to have 2 gigs of ram was serious overkill. Now what do I look for in RAM?
3. Graphics cards? Now there seems to be like.. 5 or 6 market segments. low end mainstream.. mid mainstream, high end mainstream(HD4670), low end performance(HD4830), mid performance(HD4850), and extreme 1337ness(HD4870 x2, 260, 280, etc.)
4. CHIPSETS. I REALLY CANT FIND A DECENT CHIPSET ROUNDUP OUT THERE. Can anybody give me the skinny on chipsets? both intel and amd.
So... erm.. can anybody help me out?
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Comments
It isn't that the AMD CPUs are real bad, it is that the Intel ones are great. A $200 dual core CPU today may not be bleeding edge, but it will 99% what you need.
I'll try to look some links for you. You might start at www.anandtech.com
AMD processors got lousier. Bad choices, diminished capital and a pinch of laziness bumped them out of the high end; they simply can't keep up.
As far as prices go, Intel is cheaper than ever.
Almost everything uses DDR2 right now. The accepted standard is PC2-6400/DDR2-800 (same thing). Many motherboards (Intel especially) support up to PC2-8500/DDR2-1066.
The Intel X48 chipset (for all Core 2 Duos and Core 2 Quads) is capable of supporting DDR2 or DDR3, so it depends on which board you buy. The manufacturer's discretion is what determines which type of memory the board will use.
DDR3 is the future. The Intel Core i7, the newest generation of Intel CPUs, strictly uses DDR3. Ditto of AMD's next chip when it's released, possibly at the end of 2009.
You've got it absolutely right here. Mid performance is HD 4850 + 8800/9800GT, mid-high is GTX 260 and HD 4870, high is GTX 280 / 260 GX2 / 4870 X2. The mid performance is better than ever. Seriously, today's $100 8800GT cards will slaughter today's games, even at high resolutions.
Intel P45: Most recent "budget" chipset. The most overclocker friendly of all Intel chipsets to date. Compared to the P35, this chipset's southbridge is 1 generation newer, doubles the memory capacity to 16GB, adds PCI Express 2.0 support, and revamps board power to be more compatible with quads.
Intel X48: The P45's big brother and the successor to the X38. Adds PCI Express 2.0, revamps power for quads, doubles the memory capacity to 16GB, adds a newer generation of southbridge, and provides DDR3-1600 support.
Intel X58: The new platform for the new Core i7. Uses LGA1366, provides CrossFire and SLI (on certified boards), strictly uses DDR3 up to DDR3-1600 (official), adds PCI Express 2.0 support, eliminates the memory controller, etc.
NVIDIA 780i: A really nice NVIDIA chipset that supports heavy overclocking and SLI out of the box. Despite its paper performance, the P45 is a more reliable performer. The 780i boasts all the features of the X48.
TL; DR: If you get a Core i7, you need an X58. If you get a Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quad, you want a P45.
AMD RD800: The newest chipset for AMD. Supports dual or quad-crossfire Radeon cards. Uses socket AM2+ (compatible with AM2), and rocks PCI Express 2.0 compatibility. Comes paired with the SB700 or SB750 southbridge. The AMD RD800 + SB750 is the elite combination for current AMD motherboards, and they're compatible with the upcoming (somewhat available) Phenom II CPUs.
DDR2 is the standard right now, and DDR3 could be considered "bleeding edge" - but as usual with the tech world, that bleeding edge is rapidly becoming the norm. A year from now, DDR3 will be standard.
The current best value platform (bang-for-buck) is Intel's Core2 Duo
AMD has been out of the game for the last year or so, as far as cutting edge performance and bang-for-buck, but don't count them entirely out. Phenom II is coming and looks promising.
I'm going to flat-out disagree with Ed up there and say that you don't need to go to another site to get your info. Everything you need can be found right here at Icrontic. We'll help you get up to speed
1. AMD lost a lot of ground with the Phenom processors. Intel's Core 2 series outperforms them generally, so AMD has had to play the price game to stay relevant. They're still decent bang-for-the-buck, depending on what you want to do. We're expecting the new Phenom II processors to come out later this month. They're better all around than the existing offerings, but because they haven't changed the processor architecture, they're expected to still have trouble playing ball with Intel's top offerings. If you want the fastest, it's Intel right now. Extreme Core 2 Duos and Quads, and the new Core i7 uberchips blow AMD away for desktops.
2. DDR2-1066 or even some quality DDR2-800 will do whatever you need, unless you're going with a Core i7 processor or overclocking. All Core i7 processors require DDR3 motherboards, and overclockers go for the higher speed RAM. The RAM you chose will be based on your motherboard's chipset, which is determined by your processor choice and intended use. Lets skip to chipsets...
4. Intel chipsets:
X58 - The newest for Core i7 processors. Require DDR3 and really like triple channel arrangements of it (3GB, 6GB, etc). It's expensive, but the most future-proof of all. It can do Crossfire and in some cases, SLI graphics.
P45 - P45 is happy with gamers, overclockers, and everyday people. Crossfire works with it. DDR2 can see FSBs over 500 pretty easily with it. Memory bandwidth and latency is sorta like a high pressure nozzle. You've gotta crank the FSB to get high scores.
X48 - Comes in DDR2 and DDR3 versions. Has tons of features and lots of bandwidth, but doesn't push the crazy high FSBs. Many boards top out under 500. Does Crossfire.
P35 - It's a mature chipset that overclocks well and is inexpensive. It's our MVP right now. Again, Crossfire.
NVIDIA:
NVIDIA makes chipsets for both Intel and AMD processors right now. Currently they sell the nForce 700-series. If the chip's number is 750 or higher, it's okay. They support SLI. If you are gaming and run dual NVIDIA cards, these are probably what you're looking for (unless you're jumping on the Core i7 train). The nForce 790i Ultra is their top-of-the-line Intel chipset. It's hella fast. Despite this, most people are opting for the above Intel chipsets.
AMD:
780G - It's found in lots of mATX motherboards. It offers lots of features for HTPCs. It's a great deal for integrated graphics. 780GX is an update of it. 790GX is the latest in the line.
790X and 790FX - These are the fastest AMD chipsets. It's a shame they don't have faster chips to go with them. The 790X offers dual 8x PCI-e lanes for Crossfire. The 790FX is the most expensive and offers dual 16x PCI-e lanes, or quad PCI-e 8x lanes. If you're building a box with a ton of Radeons in it, it'll love you forever.
3. You're correct on video cards.
If you've got an idea of your budget and intended use, we'd be happy to help you pick parts.
I sure do miss the days of socket A. It's like technological companies are acting like pharmaceutical companies. Add the most minor thing to their product and brand it as something new. I know it's probably a little more complex than that but it just feels like they're giving us the shaft.
@Black Hawk: Yes, I really feel that way. I look at my Athlon XP 2000+ rig which was so simple and I look at a pricelist from a computer shop here and I just go
@primesuspect: Thanks for the welcome. =) I was actually around here during the OLD OLD days, before the old Icrontic moved to short-media.com. I tried visiting that URL and its turned into an empty blog. Haha.
Hmm.. Budgetwise, I don't think I could give you guys a number, as I'm from Malaysia, prices here are really different. A 9800GX2 is still going for RM2000+, about 600+ USD. But I would be happy with part suggestions from the mid performance price range. In fact, I've already got a rough idea of what I want. I'll list it here. This is a gaming system that I also intend to fold with.
Proc: Core 2 Quad 6600
Mobo: Some X48 board.. which one? light OC
GPU: HD4850, planning to get another one when i have the cash and put them in crossfire.
RAM: 4 gigs, I'm still not sure if I want DDR2 or DDR3. I'm guessing DDR3 would be more future-proof?
Well thats the core of the system. Keep in mind I'm building it from scratch. Don't even have a keyboard. The only thing I have usable on a desktop is my Razer Deathadder. Hehe. Suggestions anyone?
Oh, and I've heard about.. Solid State hard drives? Are those out yet? Are they worth it? I'm thinking a 1TB hard drive.
For folding, the memory type doesn't matter. Since you're overclocking and gaming, I'd go with DDR2. 4GB kits that overclock well are very inexpensive now and will be great for what you're doing. I can't see going with DDR3 just yet.
Don't bother with solid state drives yet. You're better off with a good 1 or 1.5TB hard drive. SSDs are cool, but again, not needed for gaming or Folding.
Unless you opt for the latest, greatest from Intel, which is Core i7 and the X58 chipset, I would recommend DDR2 memory.
DDR3 is still expensive, and there isn't a demonstrable performance benefit over fast DDR2 with the older Core 2 platform.
By the time you're ready to move to a newer platform, DDR3 will have come down in price and gotten substantially faster than it currently is.
My vote: DDR3 for X58 only! Otherwise, stick with DDR2 for now. DDR2 is cheaper than dirt.
Let us know what you can get and we'll help you sort it out.
Sounds like you are on the right track.
What would you guys say about going the AMD route? I see huge potential for savings there, and with the Phenom II coming out...