At-home Mom fixing a computer

jcknechtjcknecht New
edited February 2009 in Hardware
Hi everyone!

I know the title is SCREAMING at you to tell me to have someone else fix it but I have become an at-home computer tinkler and enjoy making them work right...for some strange reason. The one I am trying to fix is an old one for my kids. Here is my problem. I used it to test my friend's hard drive and took out my drive and installed it in her computer. Now when I try to plug my drive back into the motherboard...it says that my secondary drive 0 and drive 1 are not found. When I check the bios it says that the Primary IDE drive is there but it is recognizing the CD drive as the primary drive! AHHH! So I am not sure if the motherboard socket is out now ( and how to fix that if it is ) or if I have to reconfigure something to make it see it. I really want to fix it cause my kids love using it for phonics and my son has taught himself to read with an online program. Any suggestions/ideas?

Also, I have never been able to make it recognize a slave drive that was fairly new...so I am wondering if the motherboard is just going bad altogether.

thanks!

Comments

  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited February 2009
    Check the hard drive for a small jumper (also check the CDrom) If they are both on the same cable, move the jumper to "Cable Select".

    Although if the system ran before, then it should run now the same way.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited February 2009
    I would say it's probably a master/slave jumper issue as well. Though instead of Ryder's advice, I would propose you go a step further and make sure that the drive is set to "master" and the CD-ROM is set to "slave."

    Every drive is a little different, but the jumper block looks like this.

    Alternatively, you can alter the boot order in the BIOS to make it boot from the hard drive anyhow.
  • jcknechtjcknecht New
    edited February 2009
    Thrax wrote:
    I would say it's probably a master/slave jumper issue as well. Though instead of Ryder's advice, I would propose you go a step further and make sure that the drive is set to "master" and the CD-ROM is set to "slave."

    Every drive is a little different, but the jumper block looks like this.

    Alternatively, you can alter the boot order in the BIOS to make it boot from the hard drive anyhow.


    Okay so I tried these jumper settings and since the cd rom and the dvd rw are on another cable I took the jumpers off so they would be slave drives. Is that right? And I used the master drive setting for the hard drive but now it says that it doesn't detect the primary OR the secondary drive 0 or 1
  • jcknechtjcknecht New
    edited February 2009
    jcknecht wrote:
    Okay so I tried these jumper settings and since the cd rom and the dvd rw are on another cable I took the jumpers off so they would be slave drives. Is that right? And I used the master drive setting for the hard drive but now it says that it doesn't detect the primary OR the secondary drive 0 or 1


    I did try to alter the bios settings to boot from the hard drive but since it wasn't recognizing the hard drive at all I couldn't set it to boot from there.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited February 2009
    At Icrontic, we would NEVER tell you to have someone else fix it. Our answer is almost ALWAYS "FIX IT YOURSELF!" ;D

    Welcome to it.

    Anyways, it's possible that your system is old enough that the direction of the IDE cable matters. IDE cables are usually set up like this:

    |
    |---|
    1
    2---3

    One connector is at the end, followed by a lot of cable, then two connectors that are much closer to each other. We'll label them 1,2, and 3 for illustrative purposes.

    The "far away" connector (number 1) should go into the motherboard. The closer connectors are for the drives.
  • jcknechtjcknecht New
    edited February 2009
    primesuspect wrote:
    At Icrontic, we would NEVER tell you to have someone else fix it. Our answer is almost ALWAYS "FIX IT YOURSELF!" ;D

    Welcome to it.

    Anyways, it's possible that your system is old enough that the direction of the IDE cable matters. IDE cables are usually set up like this:

    |
    |---|
    1
    2---3

    One connector is at the end, followed by a lot of cable, then two connectors that are much closer to each other. We'll label them 1,2, and 3 for illustrative purposes.

    The "far away" connector (number 1) should go into the motherboard. The closer connectors are for the drives.


    Thanks! I have the cable connected to the motherboard just like that with the master drive on the drive 0 connection. so I think everything is connected right. maybe at this point it is time to try a new motherboard or am I jumping ship too fast?
  • jcknechtjcknecht New
    edited February 2009
    Okay, I have been fiddling with the jumper settings all day and I have it now where it says under drive configuration that the Primary Master drive is the CD-Rom drive and the Secondary master drive is the Hard drive....How do I fix this? I just want to pull my hair out! I tried all sorts of master settings and it just doesn't want to see it for some reason.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited February 2009
    Okay.

    Step 1: Disconnect all devices.
    Step 2: Set the hard drive's jumper to MASTER. There should be a label or small white text that says "MA" or "MS" somewhere near the jumper block.
    Step 3: Connect the hard drive to NUMBER 3 on Primesuspect's text diagram.
    Step 4: Step the CD-ROM to SLAVE. A similar label should read "SL," "SLA" or outrightly says "SLAVE, put jumper (here)."
    Step 5: Connect that to connect 2 in Primesuspect's text diagram.
    Step 6: Plug the final end into the motherboard's primary IDE channel.

    Follow these steps exactly and correctly, and it will be primary master HDD/primary slave ROM.
  • jcknechtjcknecht New
    edited February 2009
    Thanks Thrax - part of the problem is that I have a CD-rom AND a dvdrw on the second cable going to the motherboard. Can you tell me the configuration for those?
  • jcknechtjcknecht New
    edited February 2009
    Okay - one more try here. I did everything as you listed. I looked at the labels and put the jumpers where they were supposed to go...now it says primary drive 0 not found and secondary drive 1 not found. I even tried a new ide cable, setup exactly like Primesuspect's diagram. I'm sorry guys I hope I'm not being a total idiot :)
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited February 2009
    You are just trying to get the PC to boot to the Hard drive right?

    We don't NEED an Optical drive for that.

    Connect only the HDD to an IDE cable, set the jumper for Cable select (I have seen motherboards get "bitchy" about telling it master/slave) on the HDD.

    Does it boot to where it tried to load Windows, tell it to ignore the "whatever found message" by pressing F1 if you are given that prompt.
  • jcknechtjcknecht New
    edited February 2009
    okay - here I go!
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2009
    okay - here I go!
    That sounds like a Mario expression in an Nintendo 64 game. (Oh, great, now Mario and Luigi game music is stuck in my head!)
  • jcknechtjcknecht New
    edited February 2009
    okay - I tried it and for some reason it is still giving me the same error. And under the drive configuration it says Primary master unknown, secondary master - hard drive. I have no clue.
  • jcknechtjcknecht New
    edited February 2009
    Leonardo wrote:
    That sounds like a Mario expression in an Nintendo 64 game. (Oh, great, now Mario and Luigi game music is stuck in my head!)

    I just got my kids off the Wii and sent to bed...they were racing Mario cart and that sound is echoing in my head too.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited February 2009
    Swap the two cables on the motherboard so the one with the hard drive is connected to what should be the blue header. Often the pimary channel is the blue header and the secondary is black or white. If you just switch them from what they are now I beleive you should be good to go.
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited February 2009
    The thing is this.. it should not matter whether the HDD is on the Primary or Secondary IDE controller to boot.. matters not, for sure.

    What kind of PC is this? Dell, Emachines, ????
  • jcknechtjcknecht New
    edited February 2009
    So I switched the cables spots and it came up with the secondary drive 0 and secondary drive 1 not found BUT the drive configuration DOES now say Primary Master drive = HARD DRIVE. but still no boot. I tried F12 and tried several boots...then finally went to IDE drive diagnostics where my hard drive shows up and then says - Pass. and I am still hitting F1 to retry the boot!
  • jcknechtjcknecht New
    edited February 2009
    oh and it's a Dell.
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited February 2009
    Ok.. does it give you an error, like invalid boot device or something along those lines?

    When you press F12 to get the boot menu is the hard drive one of the choices? When you pick it.. what happens next?
  • jcknechtjcknecht New
    edited February 2009
    RyderOCZ wrote:
    Ok.. does it give you an error, like invalid boot device or something along those lines?

    When you press F12 to get the boot menu is the hard drive one of the choices? When you pick it.. what happens next?


    No it never gives me an error. It just says gives me a flashing cursor and then it goes back to the Press F1 to retry boot, or F2 for system steup

    When I pressed F12 and went through all the different boot(s) available, it just gave me the flashing cursor for a LONG TIME and then nothing. It just could never boot.
  • Your-Amish-DaddyYour-Amish-Daddy The heart of Texas
    edited February 2009
    Ok I see alot of conflicting advice here. Let's clear the air. In no configuration (Drive single, drive in chain with others) is the hard disk not detected? If this is the case then I think screwing about with the Master/Slave settings isn't going to fix it. If it's not detecting the hard drive then it may be dead.

    Could you give us a service history of the computer? (How long it's been on per day, and it's average use, and the level of technical skill of those using it)
  • DrLiamDrLiam British Columbia
    edited February 2009
    All great advice but I'm going to offer a little noob advice (my kinda advice) here.

    Did you dust/clean all the components?
    Make sure none of the connections are damaged.

    KdoneThxs.
  • jcknechtjcknecht New
    edited February 2009
    I have made sure that the computer is clean inside...no dust bunnies hiding in there! but I have noticed that the connection on the hard drive from the mother board has a pin that is pushed halfway in. Could that be the problem?
  • jcknechtjcknecht New
    edited February 2009
    Also, the hard disk SEEMS to be detected since it says that there is a hard drive as the primary when I changed the cables and looked under F2 system setup drive configuration. Or maybe I am wrong. Is that what that means?
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2009
    the connection on the hard drive from the mother board has a pin that is pushed halfway in. Could that be the problem?
    It very well could be. The pin in question - is that one of the pins on the hard drive to which the cable from the motherboard connects? A pin on the motherboard connector where the cable connects? Either way, yes, it could be the source of the current problems.<!-- / message --><!-- attachments --><!-- / attachments --><!-- sig --><!-- / sig -->
  • jcknechtjcknecht New
    edited February 2009
    Leonardo wrote:
    It very well could be. The pin in question - is that one of the pins on the hard drive to which the cable from the motherboard connects? A pin on the motherboard connector where the cable connects? Either way, yes, it could be the source of the current problems.<!-- / message --><!-- attachments --><!-- / attachments --><!-- sig --><!-- / sig -->

    Yes - it is one of those pins. Does this mean that I could just buy another hard drive and put windows on it and it would work?
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2009
    If your hard drive is missing a pin, then:

    1) yes, that most likely would prevent proper functioning of the hard drive, and
    2) a hard drive replacement might be the solution to your computer's problem, assuming there's no other damage to the computer of which we are unaware

    Inspect the hard drive cable (the signal cable, not the power cable) to ensure that the broken pin is not lodged in the cable's connector.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited February 2009
    To be on the safe side. I would use a different cable and see if there was another hard drive available without valuable data on it to test before purchasing a drive.
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