Help with another comp build...plz =)

jimj999 · January 2004

Hey guys, this is my first post. I just started reading these forums a couple days ago and found them really helpful.

I've noticed several thread like this, so I was hoping you guys could help me out too. I'm planning on upgrading my comp real soon and I'm not sure whats the best way to go. I want to get a new MoBo/Processor, RAM, Vid card and a case/PS. I have about $600-700 to spend. I don't really plan on OCing and the such so I wasn't sure if the athlon XPs with the NF7-S MoBo (seems like a real popular choice around here) was still better then a P4 set up because I think a lot of you guys OC and the NF7-S/AXPs are good at doing that.

Also, whats the deal with Hyper Threading technology on the P4s. Does that actually increase performance or is it just another marketing gimmick? So do it one more time and tell someone how to build their comp

. Any and all help is greatly appreciated guys, thanks.

keto · January 2004

In reverse order. Hyper-Threading on P4's helps *somewhat* if running multiple functions or if an open application is optimized for hyperthreading. For example, I run 2 instances of Folding at the same time, each uses 50% of the cpu power (assuming no other applications are running) and it outputs *somewhat* more in total than a single cpu.

At $6-700 budget total with everything you've listed, you're still going to get most bang for buck going with an AMD system. Someone will be along shortly and price one out for you

But it will help to know what your primary usage is going to be - gaming? audio/video editing? developing/programming? If the answer is gaming, expect to take a $200 chunk right off the top for a reasonable video card (9600XT), and another $150ish for a case and power supply. So you can see, the $$ shrink quickly and going to an Intel system is just not going to be a bang for buck system.

Having said that, if you WERE to overclock, a 2.4C system can easily run @ 3.0+, possibly as much as 3.6 depending on the cpu stepping and RAM, and therefore might represent as good or better value.

*Edit* where are my manners :shakehead - welcome to short-media

Madball · January 2004

Keto is right. For that kind of money an AMD system would be your best option. The Abit NF7-S is a great board, but overclocking is it's strength. There are other nforce 2 boards out that would probably be a better option for you. Newegg has the ASUS A7N8X-X board for $70.99. It's not a feature rich board, but it's a good price.

A7N8X-X board $70.99
Crucial 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-2700 $67.00
Western Digital Special Edition 80GB 7200RPM $72.00
AMD Athlon XP 2600+ $100.00

That's $309.99 right now. Add around $80 for a good case, and $50 for a CD-rw and you're looking at $440. That would give you enough for a good graphics card.

edcentric · January 2004

When I embark on a system build I make two lists. One with equipment needed, by type and a rough specification. Then the second list is possible brands and prices. You see a lot of us mention Newegg. They are quick, reliable and have pretty good prices. In any case stick with mail order guys that you know.

But first you need to answer some questions. How important is sound? Do you need a network interface? Firewire? Lots of USB ports?
If you need a lot of feartures it may be least expensive to get a mobo with it all integrated. Otherwise you can get a rather striped down mobo. Though most of the NForce2 mobos come with a lot of nice features and run great.

Are you using any parts from the old box?

Opinions we have a lot of here. Welcome aboard.

jimj999 · January 2004

I'll be using my old hard drive, CD-RW and CD-Rom drives, floppy, sound card, keyboard/mouse, monitor, speakers, and network card. I'll need a few USB(2.0 would be nice, if hardware is even comin with older USB still) ports but 2-4 will be enough. This new box will be mostly for gaming with some programming and real light audio/video stuff on the side.

I think I remember somone saying that you should at least get PC-3200 RAM now adays, I'm not sure where I read that from :shakehead but is it worth the extra cash to get it? Also, I read some posts about dual channel RAM

, but I'm not really sure about that stuff and whats needed for all that(if its worth it). Thanks guys, so quick on replies and so helpful

Geeky1 · January 2004

What sound card do you have? Most likely the newest onboard stuff is actually better.

jimj999 · January 2004

Haha, thats very possible, I didn't even think about that. I have a sound blaster live platinum, before the 5.1's came out. So its a couple years running now.

Geeky1 · January 2004

Yeah, the onboard audio is going to be better then, at least on an nForce2 board, and I'd assume on an i875 or i865 board as well, actually.

Straight_Man · January 2004

Right, the onboard on the NF7-s is six channel, AFAIK, for the nforce2 variants of that board model series. As to USB, expect a controller that CAN step to 1.1 compatibility, or in the case of some modern boards, 2-3 controllers with one being USB 2 and others being socketed for USB 1.1 or USB 1.0 cords. My Soyo has a two physical dual USB controller (two of same IC) pair that is dual root hubbed on each, one inactive on the USB controller that handles USB 2.0. ALL can run USB 1.1 devices, I have the following root hubbed:

Camedia Camera male-female A cord, plugged in at need.

Laser printer, which actually is on TWO root hubs as far as boxes are concerned but is also USB switched.

Scanner, to MSI box only (which has XP on it) right now, though I have switched it before.

NOTES: The C84 printer is on USB to the MSI box only, ditto the MX700 mouse (I am retro big time with an IBM PS\2 era keyboard (mfr date 11\2\95) that still happily clicks merrily away for me with NO dead keys and no sticky ones). NO external hubs used, half the root hub ports open between the two boxes-- the APC 1100 Watt UPS that both boxes, the scanner, and the C84 feed off of along with a 2.4 GHz cordless phone is hooked to a SERIAL to COM1 of the MSI box, and XP does shut down right with PowerChute at need. XP is more File system fragile than Linux, Linux will happily figure it needs to autorepair at early boot time and run fsck, never had a FATAL data issue because no surges and Linux can repair itself well.

For some reason a non-AMD box with a P4 that is NOT HT runs even with an AMD Barton 2500+ box. The CPU is not a 2.4 GHz, but steps back to that just fine until I can afford a new P4 board. Between the two, they are genning an AVERAGE, since I suddenly have very reliable turnins, of 325 points every TWO days (range is actually on an uptrend, I will be cutting close to 180-190 for today if foldings times were used for stats effectively displayed on the stats servers). NO OC, well go for an Athlon 3000+ or a 2800+ and an NFS-7 board. Then look at http://www.just4pc.com/ and look for a Channel Well Technologies PSU, if you want big (you do, see last paragraph and look at price diffs between the 425 and the 485 PSU for why) get the 485 Watter that is NOT in aluminum case and maybe email sales if you see a case you like-- their full tower looks good-- and see what they would charge with shipping for one of those and a P4 and AMD rated 485 Watt Channel Well PSU.

They can mix case and PSU if asked nicely, REAL nice folks, name of Wong, run that company, they do direct imports for some things, mfr themselves on others. I made a coast-to-coast call and they use almost exclusively Channel Well PSUs and buy in in BIG bulk amounts-- one of their distributors\heavy resellers at partner level is Tiger Direct....

AVOID the L&C OEM PSU from them, Channel Well is more reliable and economical for the brand reputation and overall QC. Other than that, if you want to case mod yourself, one starting point would be a Chieftec case, and the PSU only from Just4PC. Look at their about page, they also have a machine modding shop and mfr some cases themselves-- cheaper ones DO come in from far east.

Plan on case, CPU, mobo and PSU easily taking up to 1\2 to 2\3 what you have budgeted. Sound you do not need other than on mobo, and unless you are a heavy gamer or motion media dev the onboard video on the NF7-S (version 2.0, MCP-T bridge) will do for now (you will eventually probbaly want a good AGP 3.0
\8X card, so buy PSU accordingly for fast CPU, RAM, DVD load later on, and big HD draw from real big drives as you upgrade). the NFS-7 will take DDR400, if can afford get that and not DDR333. If on budget for RAM, one GIG of DDR333 for now is bare minimum, or 512 MB of DDR400 of decent grade with plans to upgrade to 1 GIG later. RAM will be cheaper fastest, of your list.

John.

jimj999 · January 2004

Alright, its looks like an Athlon XP and NF7-S is the way to go. Is it worth the extra money for FSB and extra power of the 3000+ (OEM only at newegg) or is the 2800+ the better deal? Also newegg has 2500+'s for only $90. That seems like a pretty good deal. Are there any problems with any of these processors?

Is the radeon 9800pro worth the extra $$$ for the power? Instead of a 9600. I bet not many apps could take advantage of the extra power yet, but the next gen games and such could probably use the extra boost.

If I saved some money on the processor, I could spend some more on the vid card and RAM. Is that a good trade-off? Also how do these 3 XP's compare to each other on OCing. I've never OCed before, but I just might have to read up on it and push that processor

Thanks for the feedback so far guys, and once I get this new comp I might just have to start folding :bigggrin:

csimon · January 2004

my 3000+/400 came unlocked but there's no guarantee they are still that way ...I think that the 2500+'s are still being locked.
Yes the 9800pro128 is worth it rather than the 9600xt even IMO.
I use dual-channel 256x2 mushkin level 2 pc 3500 which I'm glad I got.
I am very satisfied with my rig ...see stats. :bigggrin:

get good cooling no matter which way you go and you do fine.

although I have stats listed:
barton xp3000+/400@2.5g/440
11.5x220@1.95v - slk947u - tornado 8038

I find that I fold better and way cooler when ambient temps are warm at:
barton xp3000+/400@2.5g/440
11x220@1.95v - slk947u - tornado 8038

The only thing I am thinking of changing is the fan from tornado which is turned down to 4800rpm to a TT SF2 ...I'd probably get better cooling and less noise at this rate.

Also ...if I had to do it over again I'd settle for the SLK-900a or u to save a few bucks.

Thrax · January 2004

The 2500+ in and of itself is capable of the 400 FSB that you see on the 3000+ and the 3200+ also. You need only buy good memory to allow this marvel to happen. We'll guide you right through the entire process should you ever want to do this.

If you want to save the most money, learn a little bit of overclocking, and get a 3200+ for $90, an Athlon XP 2500+ is the way to go.

That said, here's my recommendation, you can find the parts simply by searching the listed Newegg numbers:

Abit NF7-S 2.0: $100 (Newegg # 82E16813127166)
Athlon XP 2500+: $90 (Newegg # N82E16819103378)
Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro: $268 (Newegg # N82E16814102268)
2 x 256 Corsair XMS 3200: $120 for both (Newegg # N82E16820145415)
Thermalright SLK-900: $35 (Newegg # N82E16835109011)
Thermaltake SmartFan II: $9 (Newegg # N82E16820145415)
Case: It's really up to you! Make sure it has atleast 2 80mm intake, and 2 80mm outtake.
Antec TRUE430 PSU: $71 (Newegg # N82E16817103908)

Total: $693 without shipping

To save much cash, you can back down to a Radeon 9700 Pro. The 9700 Pro is still a fantastic bloody card, and is only 2-5% slower than the 9800 Pro in real games. You can't go wrong if you want to save that money ($100 or so) and put it towards a case and shipping. You might also want to investigate newegg's refurbished section to acquire a video card; many of us here swear by it. If the card gives problems in the first 30 days, you can return it for a refund. Worth a try.

Hope this helps.

csimon · January 2004

great system ...what thrax said!

Madball · January 2004

Thrax's system is really a great machine. That's a good idea on that 9700pro too. You would have a killer system for under $800.

Bud · January 2004

:wow: thrax recommened a antec power supply and not comp usa power supply

jimj999 · January 2004

Bud wrote:

:wow: thrax recommened a antec power supply and not comp usa power supply

Haha, i was gonna say that, you beat me to it!

Quick question about the RAM, is the extra $$$ worth the LL or those heat spreaders? I doubt I have the extra $$, but if I do is it worth it? Also the board can only take up to 3200, so 3500 will do me no good correct?

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-120&catalog=7&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=1 Is this a good case? It looks a little big, but seems to have what I need. It also comes with a 400W powersupply. I don't know how good it is or if its enough W for OCing and stuff, lemme know guys. I didn't find to many cases with enough fans at newegg, maybe I was looking in the wrong spot. I'll try Ageek site when I get home from work. I'm not looking for anything fancy really. Thanks for all the speedy replies and usfuly info guys, you're awesome!

Bud · January 2004

if you want that style of case you could always get a chietec and they have better airflow.

keto · January 2004

jimj999 wrote:

Quick question about the RAM, is the extra $$$ worth the LL or those heat spreaders? I doubt I have the extra $$, but if I do is it worth it? Also the board can only take up to 3200, so 3500 will do me no good correct?

The LL stands for LowLatency and IS worth the $. The heatspreaders are more cosmetic than functional but you can't buy this RAM without them AFAIK. PC3500 would guarantee that you could run at 216 fsb (providing your cpu and mobo will run this fast), as opposed to 200 with the PC3200 - though the 3200 will probably get you there anyways if you want to overclock.

jimj999 · January 2004

Alright folks, this is what I've come to a conclusion with. It's a little more then I wanted to spend, but I'm hoping the extra cash for the LL RAM and the 9800Pro is worth it. This case comes with an Antec 430PSU for $114, which seems like a good deal. Is there any problems with this case? I think some of you had some problems with its air flow or cooling on one of the other threads, but I can't remember(I've read so many).

I also read on the cooling boards that the AS5 paste is really good. I've never used anything like this before, is it easy to use and worth the trouble? Will I need it if I OC?

I'm still not sure if I'm going to OC yet since I really don't know anything about it so far, but it is sounds interesting to me. This is a NF7-S board with an AXP 2500+ and 512MB of XMS LL 3200 RAM and a Radeon 9800Pro. Details below.

Antec Performance Plus Case, Model:PLUS1080AMG, Retail.
Specifications:
Case Type: SOHO File Server
Color: Antec Metalic Gray
Material: 1mm SECC Steel
Drive Bays: 4x5.25" & 6x3.5"
Expansion Slots: 7
Front Ports: 2xUSB & 1xIEEE1394
Power Supply: 430W
Cooling System: 5x80mm Fans
Mainboard Compatibility: ATX
Dimensions: 20.6"x8.1"x18.6" more info-> N82E16811129115 $114.00

ABIT nForce2 Ultra 400 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU, Model "NF7-S V2" -RETAIL
Specifications:
Supported CPU: AMD K7 Duron/Athlon/Athlon XP Processors
Chipset: NVIDIA nForce2 Ultra 400+MCP-T
FSB: 266/333/400MHz
RAM: 3x DIMM for Max 3GB DDR333/266/200,2x DIMM for Max 2GB DDR400
IDE: 2x UltraDMA 33/66/100/133 up to 4 Devices
Slots: 1x AGP 8X/4X, 5x PCI
Ports: 2xPS2,2xCOM,1xLPT,SPDIF Out,6xUSB2.0(Rear 2),2xIEEE1394a header,Audio Ports
Onboard Audio: SoundStorm APU(Dolby 5.1) + 6-Channel AC97 CODEC
Onboard LAN: 10/100Mbps Fast Ethernet
Onboard SATA/RAID: 2x Serial ATA,RAID 0
Onboard 1394: 2 Ports by Cable(See pics)
Form Factor:ATX more info-> N82E16813127166 $99.99

ATI RADEON 9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL
Specifications:
Chipset/Core Speed: RADEON 9800PRO/380MHz
Memory/Effective Speed: 128MB DDR/680MHz
BUS: AGP 1X/2X/4X/8X
Ports: VGA Out(15 Pin D-Sub)+TV-Out(S-Video Out)+DVI connector
Support 3D API: DirectX®9, OpenGL®2.0
Cable/Accessories: 2 Adapters, 2 Cables, Driver CD, Manual
Max Resolution@32bit Color: 2048X1536@85Hz
Retail Box (See pics for details) more info-> N82E16814102286 $298.00

AMD Athlon XP 2500+ "Barton", 333 FSB, 512K Cache Processor - Retail
Specification
Model: AMD Athlon XP 2500+
Core: Barton
Operating Frequency: 1.83GHz
FSB: 333MHz
Cache: L1/64K+64K; L2/512K
Voltage: 1.65V
Process: 0.13Micron
Socket: Socket A
Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, 3DNOW!, 3DNOW!+
Packaging: Retail Box (Heatsink and Fan included) more info-> N82E16819103379 $90.00

Corsair XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series, Low Latency 184 Pin 256MB DDR PC-3200 with Platinum Silver Heat Spreader
Specification
Manufacturer: Corsair
Speed: DDR400(PC3200)
Type: 184 Pin DDR SDRAM
Error Checking: Non-ECC
Registered/Unbuffered: Unbuffered
Cas Latency: 2-3-2-6 1T
Support Voltage: 2.6V
Bandwidth: 3.2GB/s
Organization: 32M x 64 -Bit
Special Features: Plug-n-Frag Auto-Configuration
Warranty: Lifetime more info-> N82E16820145424 $71.00 * 2 = $142.00

Thermalright ''SLK900A''Copper Heatsink for AMD: Athlon XP Palamino, Thoroughbred, and Barton 2800+ and up.
Features:
Compatibility: Socket A/370
Dimensions: L96xW59xH44(mm)Top,Without fan.L34xW59 Base
Bearing Type: Ball Bearing
Nominal Speed(RPM): 4800
Max Air Flow:(CFM): 110.18
Max Pressure: Not specified
HeatSink Material: All copper
Rated Voltage: 12V DC
Connector: Not specified
Noise(dBA): 55
Special Features: Soldered fins to base to ensure effective contact, Three pronged type heat sink clip, Stepping fins to hold also 80mm fans more info-> N82E16835109011 $34.99

Thermaltake SMART CASE FAN II. Variable Fan Speed Control, by temperature sensor.
Specification:
Compatibility: Case
Dimensions: 80x80x25mm
Bearing Type: 2 Ball
Nominal Speed(RPM): 1300~4800
Max Air Flow:(CFM): 20.55~75.70
Max Pressure: 1.45~8.43 mm H2O
Heat Sink Material: N/A
Rated Voltage: 12 VDC
Noise(dBA): 17~48
Special Features: Temp.control fan speed. more info-> N82E16835999111

Total: $787.97

Thanks for all your help and suggestions guys! These forums are full of useful knowledge.

MJO · January 2004

Well my AXP at 2.0 Ghz outscores a non-ht P4 2.6 Ghz.
Measured in 3DMark03 cpu test.
The dude with the 2.6 wasn't happy at all.
And next time I meet him I will have a 2.2 Ghz or a 2.4 Ghz. muhahaha

Straight_Man · January 2004

It will, but Folding does not use high amounts of 3-D code, especially not texturing or AA or AF. For motion media or for gaming, yes, that is very important, but not for most folding or more common apps I use my boxes for. True, the HT and the Barton are close in terms of use, if you have same programs running on both. The Opteron and the HTs are also comparable in overall functionality, with the Opteron also not having lots of code tuned for it yet. MY Barton stinks in 3DMark, but that is video card. 3DMark also is biased a bit to AMD, though (not hugely, but some)-- it was deved on AMD CPU boxes, probably compiled on them also. Different strategies for different uses, IMHO. And I am odd-man-out here in "gaming tech world" discussions, as games are not my main things at all.

Another thing is RAM speed and kind, and video card with 3DMark, and even DirectX with XP and 3D benchmarking, even down to what DirectX the card supports in firmware.

John.

jimj999 · January 2004

Just got all my stuff in and its working great

I only had a problem with both my old hardrives, they came up with memory errors on windows start up. I formatted one (luckily it didn't really have any data on it) and it works great now. I slaved my other harddrive and didn't have to format it and it works too. Thanks for the info guys. Next step is folding and maybe some OCing onces I learn how...

You guys rock

gensem · January 2005

U should try Crucial Ballistix 184-Pin 256MB DDR PC-3200
they do 2.2.2.6 and r abit cheaper. Newegg Crucial Link

Avoid noise cpu coolers, u ll get mad, i can tell. it hate my vantec aeroflow somehow.
take a look at this one
Cooler

Talking about noise, i dont know your case, but also avoid 80mm fans, that run at 3500rpm or more.

As said, chieftec is a good air flow/price pick.

And yes, AS worth it!

Good Luck Pal

btw: Looks like i came abit late, but anyway, take a look if u wish

Help with another comp build...plz =)

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