Mac vs. PC for programming

ardichokeardichoke Icrontian
edited August 2011 in Science & Tech
I've been avoiding this thread until now... but seriously Annes? A Mac if you're going to do programming? I mean... yeah, if you're developing for OSX then a Mac is a good choice, but if you're getting into Windows development why waste the money on a Mac that you're just going to have to install Windows on anyway? Save the money and get a PC. Of course, me being me and having gone to the school I went to, I'm a firm believer that *nix (more specifically in my case, Linux) is the best development environment. Perhaps that's just because my CS department was all Linux, all the time... from what I've seen the array of coding and debugging tools is far beyond that of OSX or Windows. Even the people I knew that had Macs in my department only used them to remote into the CS department terminal server when it came to development.

Comments

  • mondimondi Icrontian
    edited September 2009
    ardichoke wrote:
    I've been avoiding this thread until now... but seriously Annes? A Mac if you're going to do programming? I mean... yeah, if you're developing for OSX then a Mac is a good choice, but if you're getting into Windows development why waste the money on a Mac that you're just going to have to install Windows on anyway? Save the money and get a PC. Of course, me being me and having gone to the school I went to, I'm a firm believer that *nix (more specifically in my case, Linux) is the best development environment. Perhaps that's just because my CS department was all Linux, all the time... from what I've seen the array of coding and debugging tools is far beyond that of OSX or Windows. Even the people I knew that had Macs in my department only used them to remote into the CS department terminal server when it came to development.

    Interesting argument, Macs / OS X are a poor choice for Windows programming, but *nix is the best dev environment?

    If you like *nix environments, then it should interest you that OS X is 100% POSIX compliant, whereas most Linux distributions are not - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX#POSIX-oriented_operating_systems.
  • LincLinc Owner Detroit Icrontian
    edited September 2009
    ardichoke wrote:
    A Mac if you're going to do programming?
    Yup. (see the 2 mailing list links at end too)
  • ardichokeardichoke Icrontian
    edited September 2009
    mondi wrote:
    If you like *nix environments, then it should interest you that OS X is 100% POSIX compliant, whereas most Linux distributions are not - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX#POSIX-oriented_operating_systems.

    Yeah... that occurred to me while driving to work. If you ask me, what platform you use for development is generally dictated by what platform you are developing for and I was thinking in terms of myself being more interested in developing things for the web hosting industry which would likely be run on Linux.

    I guess upon balanced reconsideration, the point I should make is that I wouldn't say that any one platform is inherently better for development than another since it would generally be easier to develop for Windows on Windows, for OSX on OSX or for Linux on Linux. As for things like java development, development of cell phone apps, etc., can you honestly say that one platform is always better than another for development? I highly doubt it. It's going to come down to what environment the developer is comfortable in.
  • AnnesAnnes Tripped Up by Libidos and Hubris Alexandria, VA Icrontian
    edited September 2009
    You do realize that the core of OSX is BSD, right? I mean, you can open up a terminal and do ANYTHING *nix can do in OSX. No fucking around with Cygwin or dual-booting.
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI Icrontian
    edited September 2009
    You won't win the argument with a true OSS advocate simply because OSX is closed and uses proprietary code. It may have been based in *nix, but it branched a while back and keeps things to itself.

    Not saying it's right or wrong, just explaining why many people will never accept that OSX and Linux are equivalent, deep down.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited September 2009
    This thread is seriously off the fucking charts, people. :wtf:

    I'm splitting it :D
  • LincLinc Owner Detroit Icrontian
    edited September 2009
    Snarkasm wrote:
    You won't win the argument with a true OSS advocate
    I don't think anyone made that argument. We're all talking functionality.
  • mondimondi Icrontian
    edited September 2009
    @Prime - thanks :)

    @Snark - UNIX does not mean open source.

    @ardichoke:

    Agreed. To say any one platform is always better would be presumptuous, being comfortable with your environment goes a long way.

    That being said - I write 99% of my code (for all 3 major OS's) without ever leaving OS X. Like Annes - I definitely prefer the environment and tools available, and most of the platform specific code I need can generally be tested in VirtualBox. Anything that can't be virtualized, is tested with Bootcamp.
  • ardichokeardichoke Icrontian
    edited September 2009
    Lincoln wrote:
    I don't think anyone made that argument. We're all talking functionality.
    It's a tangent of the argument I made though. If you develop something on and for Linux, yes it will probably work on OSX and vice versa but there is no guarantee. Apple did branch from BSD, but many of the libraries are their own proprietary libraries and that creates inherent incompatibilities. I'm not interested in arguing over if the open source libs are better or the Apple libs are better, all I'm saying is I wouldn't develop for Linux in OSX because the libs are different so I can't be sure if or how well the code will run on Linux if I'm developing (and testing) in OSX... the reverse is also true.
  • BuddyJBuddyJ Dept. of Propaganda OKC Icrontian
    edited September 2009
    Our developers here do the same thing mondi does.
  • mondimondi Icrontian
    edited September 2009
    ardichoke wrote:
    It's a tangent of the argument I made though. If you develop something on and for Linux, yes it will probably work on OSX and vice versa but there is no guarantee. Apple did branch from BSD, but many of the libraries are their own proprietary libraries and that creates inherent incompatibilities. I'm not interested in arguing over if the open source libs are better or the Apple libs are better, all I'm saying is I wouldn't develop for Linux in OSX because the libs are different so I can't be sure if or how well the code will run on Linux if I'm developing (and testing) in OSX... the reverse is also true.

    This is partially true, yes there may be inconsistencies in functionality, but that's actually because Linux falls short, rather than OS X. While Apple may use proprietary code, compliance to the SUS (specifically UNIX 03) means, that any code written in OS X will function identically on any other system that is compliant.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification
  • ardichokeardichoke Icrontian
    edited September 2009
    mondi wrote:
    This is partially true, yes there may be inconsistencies in functionality, but that's actually because Linux falls short, rather than OS X. While Apple may use proprietary code, compliance to the SUS (specifically UNIX 03) means, that any code written in OS X will function identically on any other system that is compliant.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification
    Once again, I'm not debating whose libs are better. Linux isn't perfect and if I ever say it is you have permission to slap me with a trout. The only point I was making was about developing software for Linux but doing it solely in OSX (or vice versa) and the fact that there is no perfect development OS, it's highly subjective and for anyone to say "If you're going to program, you should do it in OSX" is silly.
  • mondimondi Icrontian
    edited September 2009
    By the same token, I don't want to appear to be bashing Linux, my main file and source control server runs Linux and I'm perfectly happy with it. I was replying more to this statement:
    Apple did branch from BSD, but many of the libraries are their own proprietary libraries and that creates inherent incompatibilities

    OS X isn't perfect by any means, but it does comply to the universally accepted standard, and thus there are no "inherent incompatibilities", when programming to spec.

    Conversely, when developing for Linux, on Linux, there is no guarantee that the software will function as written :).
  • ardichokeardichoke Icrontian
    edited September 2009
    True, but pssh... how many companies really follow spec anyway? *cough*css2ie6*cough* ;)
  • mondimondi Icrontian
    edited September 2009
    ardichoke wrote:
    True, but pssh... how many companies really follow spec anyway? *cough*css2ie6*cough* ;)

    Far too few :)
  • edited August 2011
    I know this thread is old, but Linux is free
  • PirateNinjaPirateNinja Icrontian
    edited August 2011
    Welcome to Icrontic!
    I heard Linux is only free if you download it on Kazaa Lite.
  • edited August 2011
    Welcome to Icrontic!
    I heard Linux is only free if you download it on Kazaa Lite.

    I think that's the way it used to be. The licensing was free distribution but you needed to get it from someone who had a copy and could burn it for you. Now you can find licensed distribution places on the internet where you can download the CD image file.

    The latest version of Ubuntu can be found and downloaded at www.ubuntu.com. I think it comes with everything you need for a dual boot system.
  • ardichokeardichoke Icrontian
    edited August 2011
    ohhhh boy... sarcasm is lost on this one boys.
  • KwitkoKwitko Sheriff of Banning (Retired) By the thing near the stuff Icrontian
    edited August 2011
    where can i find the latest version of linux i want to hack my friends computer and i herd that u can do that with linux lol thasks
  • BuddyJBuddyJ Dept. of Propaganda OKC Icrontian
    edited August 2011
    Kwitko wrote:
    where can i find the latest version of linux i want to hack my friends computer and i herd that u can do that with linux lol thasks

    hear let me halp u http://www.linex.com/
  • ardichokeardichoke Icrontian
    edited August 2011
    Just spray it onto your server, instant protection from haxxorz
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