I have spent a great deal of time playing with both the back burner and regular flamethrower and I really think that it is situational. I find nothing more amusing then blowing an ubered demo off a cliff or down into a pit just as they are about to wreck a sentry. At the same time, a perfect ambush is just as satisfying. I do prefer the flamethrower more, but I like both.
Um, dude, I've been playing TF2 since beta, and am considered one of the best Pyros here at Icrontic and have over 110 hours played on the class. I'm not saying the normal flamethrower is worst.
Start from the top and work my way down this post.
Keep in mind, I'm not trying to be hostile. Defensive at worst.
I've played TFC since release, and worked my way through the community of Valve through the Beta and to this point of TF2. You telling me you've been in the Beta won't make me back down in a debate. Perhaps you are one of -- or the best -- Pyro on Icrontic, but if you spent equal time using the updated Airblast, I'm 100% faithful that you'd be more helpful to your team than you would be otherwise.
The backburner plays into the Pyro's play style of flanking the enemies. It's only problem is how narrow the margin is for it to get those crits. You have to be standing right behind the enemy.
Keep in mind that it's far harder to shoot somebody that's in the air, and it's not that difficult to shoot while in the air
No it's far easier to shoot someone in the air cause they can't control their movement in air. Exception Scout. Snipers find rocket jumping soldier much easier targets.
It sure does play into his style! I do agree with you here, entirely. The fact of the matter is, you can accomplish exactly the same thing by being directly behind your enemies with the normal flamethrower. Remember that just because you can hit somebody with your fire, doesn't mean you're doing maximum damage. To be point blanc means they're death is practically instant. Just slightly longer than it would to kill them with the backcrits at maximum range. As for your questionable inquisition of jumpshooting, I'm not sure how to reply. I'll have to play against you in-game. If you can airshot me over and over again, I'll remove that from my guide.
To call the backburner useless is stupid. Anyone who has been pushing a cart with four other players then suddenly a backburning pyro annihilate them knows that it has its merits. Its not 'Slightly faster deaths' its damn near instant to anything but a heavy or soldier. It clips medics so fast they usually don't have the chance to deploy their ubers.
Its an alternative weapon and it has its uses.
There's no need to call me stupid. Let's start with that. Secondly, the exact same thing can be accomplished via the Flamethrower. Except if they decide to turn around in time, (Don't say, "You won't have time to turn around if it's the Backburner." - That simply isn't true.) at which point the Airblast gives you an alternative way to kick their ass.
I do agree that it has it's uses. However, I believe if you spend equal time practicing the Flamethrower, your resulting skill-level will be far higher.
I agree with Fatcat, I use the backburner all the time and I'm a huge fan. Now, to be fair, I haven't taken tons of time to get to know how to use the airblast well, but I find that I live longer and do way more damage when I'm using the backburner.
I see your argument here, but you've already stated my retaliation. You would be doing far better if you mastered airblasting. To be fair, I haven't seen you backcrit a single enemy. (Given I only played with you for one night.)
I have spent a great deal of time playing with both the back burner and regular flamethrower and I really think that it is situational. I find nothing more amusing then blowing an ubered demo off a cliff or down into a pit just as they are about to wreck a sentry. At the same time, a perfect ambush is just as satisfying. I do prefer the flamethrower more, but I like both.
I'm going to have to agree with you on this one. The backburner definitely assists in those beautiful ambushes. However, it's really only giving you a slight edge in that single scenario. As previously stated, I fullheartedly believe that you can accomplish exactly the same end-results with the Flamethrower.
Pretty much the point, there is the offensive pyro, and the defensive pyro. But saying it is ludicrous to ever use the Backburner, is just false.
Perhaps I'm exaggerating. What I mean to get across by saying that is the Backburner is like a walking stick. [badanalogy]You don't really need to have it while you go hiking. In fact, it hinders your ability to carry some objects. However, a walking stick helps you walk, and that's your primary objective.[/badanalogy]
The Backburner helps you ambush, but that's all it does. It prevents you from assisting your team in any way other than kills, kills, kills. The same kills you could manage with via the Flamethrower, sufficient practice given.
It's not that you're being hostile it's just that you aren't exploring the benefits of the alternate weapons. Everything up until the Scout update situational benefits. Even then Bonk and Sandman have their uses.
I could place in the guides -why- you shouldn't use the Unlockables, if that'd make you happy. But to be honest, my last post explained everything.
I even stated the uses of Bonk and Sandman. Except for the game-breaking defensive capabilities of the Sandman. But I'd like to think Valve had a brain fart with that update. Stuns ruined the fun, for me.
Anyways. If anybody else has a problem with these guides from this point forward, I'll have to ask you to keep them to yourselves. I'm not telling anybody to read these, nor am I telling you to live by my guides. I just want to help those that are interested. That's all.
Come on F Stein... If you're gonna post "guides" then be prepared to take the heat. Saying "HEY GUISE BLOW SMOKE UP MY ASS OR DON'T POST" isn't how a forum works.
Unfortuantely, I'm exactly as you stated. Either say something nice, or don't say anything at all. I'm not going to contribute to a community that's just going to bash me the second I post anything. That's not the way I work. I can find some other place to be, if each time I try to do something for you guys ends in "you're stupid" etc.
Nobody here is trying to shy you away or get you to leave.. but seriously "every time I try to do something for you guys". That statement right there sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder, that you are better than people here, and you have played on our server.. twice.. 3 times?
We have at least 40 new members to this site since IC started playing TF2, I really can't see that we are totally a bunch of jerks who don't welcome new people, but the context of some of your posts, leaves a lot to be desired.. just sayin'
if each time I try to do something for you guys ends in "you're stupid" etc
Actually, no post here has ended that way. That's the point of Icrontic.
The point of a forum is to have a discussion. You've posted well-stated and strong opinions, and some people disagree with them. That so many people are taking time from their day to refute points you make is a credit to you, not a slam, and I'm surprised you see it that way.
Having a chorus of "what delightful guides" and no more would be boring and useless to everyone. Stand up and defend your opinions in the same rational way they are being questioned and you will continue to get along great here.
Unfortuantely, I'm exactly as you stated. Either say something nice, or don't say anything at all. I'm not going to contribute to a community that's just going to bash me the second I post anything. That's not the way I work. I can find some other place to be, if each time I try to do something for you guys ends in "you're stupid" etc.
Don't take the criticism too personally. For some of the guys on Icrontic, TF2 is a very serious passion.
I get beat up here all the time for having a difference of opinion, but you know what is awesome about Icrontic, I never get edited, I always get to say my piece, and you can too.
Only way to settle a dispute, get on the TF2 server and throw down!
@Ryder & Lincoln: Perhaps that's a poor quality of mine, hearing a post in the worst possible context. But the majority of the replies here have seemed condescending and meaningless. I respect the fact that you're trying to be a polite Community, and I was looking forward to debating a few points on these guides. However, the way a few replies have been written makes me feel a bit differently on the subject. I'd prefer if we could delete every reply, and lock the topic. Let me write my guides, and just let them sit. It'd be better than some giant argument spewing forth just because of some newbie to the community. You should all be appalled that I'd act this way after playing with guys for a grand total of 3 days, and I respect the fact that you're surprised by it.
On a side note, I cannot edit my old posts, all of a sudden. I'm not entirely sure why. Anybody have any ideas?
[EG: I can edit 'New' posts, but none of my "reserved" posts.]
I think the big difference here is we've developed a team play style on our server that works well for us. Our casual but competitive play meta-style probably differs from what F Stein has seen.
I'd prefer if we could delete every reply, and lock the topic. Let me write my guides, and just let them sit. It'd be better than some giant argument spewing forth just because of some newbie to the community. You should all be appalled that I'd act this way after playing with guys for a grand total of 3 days, and I respect the fact that you're surprised by it.
Again, I think your perspective is skewed. This discussion was great until you started saying "don't disagree with me" but I think we can easily keep moving on
On a side note, I cannot edit my old posts, all of a sudden. I'm not entirely sure why. Anybody have any ideas?
[EG: I can edit 'New' posts, but none of my "reserved" posts.
You can only edit posts for 24 hours here, sorry. Just start a new discussion for each one and have at it.
@Lincoln.
I only reply with such a tone when I'm first spoken to that way. I was insulted on mIRC last night, and I don't think we need to get into that subject.
On a less important note, that's a lot of people viewing one thread. o_O
"Viewing: F Stein, Lincoln, Thrax, pigflipper, Annes, Buddy J, Idiot_Slayer, Cyclonite, TiberiusLazarus, mertesn, 1 guests"
Anyways. I'll continue to write the guides if/when I can edit my posts. Preferably after all the replies are deleted. There's no need to look back on a whole lot of arguing.
Like I said; I'm not bringing any of that up in my thread. This is already infested with replies that I'd rather ignore, let alone when a fight starts about "my feelings getting hurt".
So, I sucked it up to read your horrible, eye bleeding italics and I have this to say: Chill out. Just a game. Posts are NOT going to be deleted, no matter how many times you ask for it.
We really like your guides, they offer a different viewpoint on how to play the game. The key here is "different" meaning, just like all things different, you are going to face criticism. If you want legions of adoring fans that believe you are perfect and can do no wrong, this is not the place for you, but if you want to join a great community that will offer to challenge your viewpoints and make you think, stick around, you might find we aren't all dicks all the time, just Thrax.
Comments
Start from the top and work my way down this post.
Keep in mind, I'm not trying to be hostile. Defensive at worst.
I've played TFC since release, and worked my way through the community of Valve through the Beta and to this point of TF2. You telling me you've been in the Beta won't make me back down in a debate. Perhaps you are one of -- or the best -- Pyro on Icrontic, but if you spent equal time using the updated Airblast, I'm 100% faithful that you'd be more helpful to your team than you would be otherwise.
It sure does play into his style! I do agree with you here, entirely. The fact of the matter is, you can accomplish exactly the same thing by being directly behind your enemies with the normal flamethrower. Remember that just because you can hit somebody with your fire, doesn't mean you're doing maximum damage. To be point blanc means they're death is practically instant. Just slightly longer than it would to kill them with the backcrits at maximum range. As for your questionable inquisition of jumpshooting, I'm not sure how to reply. I'll have to play against you in-game. If you can airshot me over and over again, I'll remove that from my guide.
There's no need to call me stupid. Let's start with that. Secondly, the exact same thing can be accomplished via the Flamethrower. Except if they decide to turn around in time, (Don't say, "You won't have time to turn around if it's the Backburner." - That simply isn't true.) at which point the Airblast gives you an alternative way to kick their ass.
I do agree that it has it's uses. However, I believe if you spend equal time practicing the Flamethrower, your resulting skill-level will be far higher.
I see your argument here, but you've already stated my retaliation. You would be doing far better if you mastered airblasting. To be fair, I haven't seen you backcrit a single enemy. (Given I only played with you for one night.)
I'm going to have to agree with you on this one. The backburner definitely assists in those beautiful ambushes. However, it's really only giving you a slight edge in that single scenario. As previously stated, I fullheartedly believe that you can accomplish exactly the same end-results with the Flamethrower.
Perhaps I'm exaggerating. What I mean to get across by saying that is the Backburner is like a walking stick. [badanalogy]You don't really need to have it while you go hiking. In fact, it hinders your ability to carry some objects. However, a walking stick helps you walk, and that's your primary objective.[/badanalogy]
The Backburner helps you ambush, but that's all it does. It prevents you from assisting your team in any way other than kills, kills, kills. The same kills you could manage with via the Flamethrower, sufficient practice given.
I even stated the uses of Bonk and Sandman. Except for the game-breaking defensive capabilities of the Sandman. But I'd like to think Valve had a brain fart with that update. Stuns ruined the fun, for me.
Anyways. If anybody else has a problem with these guides from this point forward, I'll have to ask you to keep them to yourselves. I'm not telling anybody to read these, nor am I telling you to live by my guides. I just want to help those that are interested. That's all.
Shutting down an uber is worth far more than "destroying" a couple of enemies on the cart.
Also my post count keeps going down, what's up with that?
Just recognize that it has its uses as an alternative inventory item, that's all we are asking otherwise this argument is asinine.
There are alot of playstyles out there, and if you have one you like feel free to share it, but understand it doesn't work for everyone.
Personal Note- I didn't call you stupid, but if you tell me to practice more with a weapon I might have to.
Eating Baloney as we speak.
As for a reply to Idiot_Slayer, I'm informing people of the optimal loadout for assistance to your team. You can play how you want.
Keep on writing. I like your style.
Nobody here is trying to shy you away or get you to leave.. but seriously "every time I try to do something for you guys". That statement right there sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder, that you are better than people here, and you have played on our server.. twice.. 3 times?
We have at least 40 new members to this site since IC started playing TF2, I really can't see that we are totally a bunch of jerks who don't welcome new people, but the context of some of your posts, leaves a lot to be desired.. just sayin'
The point of a forum is to have a discussion. You've posted well-stated and strong opinions, and some people disagree with them. That so many people are taking time from their day to refute points you make is a credit to you, not a slam, and I'm surprised you see it that way.
Having a chorus of "what delightful guides" and no more would be boring and useless to everyone. Stand up and defend your opinions in the same rational way they are being questioned and you will continue to get along great here.
Don't take the criticism too personally. For some of the guys on Icrontic, TF2 is a very serious passion.
I get beat up here all the time for having a difference of opinion, but you know what is awesome about Icrontic, I never get edited, I always get to say my piece, and you can too.
Only way to settle a dispute, get on the TF2 server and throw down!
On a side note, I cannot edit my old posts, all of a sudden. I'm not entirely sure why. Anybody have any ideas?
[EG: I can edit 'New' posts, but none of my "reserved" posts.]
EDIT: And a lot of condescending comments is what lead to me responding in this way.
You can only edit posts for 24 hours here, sorry. Just start a new discussion for each one and have at it.
I like your guides, and I don't think anybody's been too harsh on you. We just like debating the finer points of things. Don't be too annoyed by us.
I only reply with such a tone when I'm first spoken to that way. I was insulted on mIRC last night, and I don't think we need to get into that subject.
On a less important note, that's a lot of people viewing one thread. o_O
"Viewing: F Stein, Lincoln, Thrax, pigflipper, Annes, Buddy J, Idiot_Slayer, Cyclonite, TiberiusLazarus, mertesn, 1 guests"
Anyways. I'll continue to write the guides if/when I can edit my posts. Preferably after all the replies are deleted. There's no need to look back on a whole lot of arguing.
What made you feel insulted?
We really like your guides, they offer a different viewpoint on how to play the game. The key here is "different" meaning, just like all things different, you are going to face criticism. If you want legions of adoring fans that believe you are perfect and can do no wrong, this is not the place for you, but if you want to join a great community that will offer to challenge your viewpoints and make you think, stick around, you might find we aren't all dicks all the time, just Thrax.
Also:
QFT
He only plays one on the internet.