After 8 years, it's time to spec out a new system :)
godzilla525
Western Pennsylvania Member
Well, the old computer is finally getting to the point where it's too slow to use even for relatively tame internet stuff, so it's time to put together something new.
First, the old:
Abit KT7, Duron 650 @ 950, 512MB PC133, nVidia GF3 Ti200 64MB VIVO...
...yeah. Apu's Hardware vintage, if any of you remember back that far.
Currently I'm using a heavy duty Core2 Duo P9500/4GB GF 9800M GTX/1GB laptop, but other members of the household don't.
Basically I was looking into building a computer that would be more or less used for internet and office applications (most of the time...), but not necessarily the dumpy 5lb empty box that most business computers are. I was thinking more in terms of using ECC memory and maybe RAID1 or RAID5.
It would occasionally be used for video editing (particularly AVCHD) if I ever figure out how, along with some 24/96 or 24/192 audio capture. Some gaming and Blu-ray too, although I haven't played anything made since about 2006 since trying to keep a computer up to date enough to play newer games is too much of a PITA (and wallet).
It's also going to end up running 24/7, so nothing horrific on power consumption, and no room heaters.
One wrinkle. Right now I use the old computer as a TV (VIVO, audio input from a VCR) and everything is in the analog domain. I'd like to be able to continue doing this mostly because it's a heavily-used function by other members of the household. I haven't gone to a digital A/V receiver yet. I'd have to take all my perfectly working equipment, chuck it in the dumpster, and buy all new stuff...
But I digress...
I'd probably be looking at a new monitor, keyboard, same mouse, same PCI Terratec EWX24/96 if I can still use it, new hard drives, DVD-RW, MAYBE a blu-ray drive. EIA-232 and parallel port (add-on card, obviously), new case, power supply (unless I can keep using my 380W Seasonic S12-II)... the whole mess essentially.
The method I used when I bought the laptop was I went with a company with a good reputation and optioned up, stopping short of when the prices shot to the moon in the drop-down lists. As a price/performance optimization method it worked well. It ended up being a little more than what I wanted to spend, but that's generally how these things usually work.
I'd like to keep it under $2k (or better yet, $1.5k)...
I was thinking in terms of motherboards as starting with an Intel WX58BP and i7-9something, although someone I know says there's only one or two companies left that can actually *make* a *good* motherboard and that Intel had fallen off that list... so I have no idea what I'm doing. ...and the TDP of that CPU line (~130W) is high. (4GB+ ECC RAM)
Video... no idea. 1GB+. Composite input would be nice. HDMI/DVI output with appropriate monitor (1080+ lines)
Sound... I'd start out with what the board has to begin with (if any) and see whether or not the line-in/line-out quality sucks. I have a Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 (USB 2.0) that does not play ball with SpeedStep (or whatever they call it now) or this laptop's ACPI. I can use that if the PCI Terratec is a no-go.
Networking... 1Gb/100Mbps. No Broadcom. Preferably Intel.
Storage... Right now 500GB is PLENTY (320 would be 'enough'). RAID1 or RAID5. I'm sick of losing data. I do back up. More storage I'd add with external volumes. SSDs for anything other than bootup/system is too costly.
Case... well built, quiet and doesn't overheat, no plastic chrome, no beige, no radioactive glow. Preferably a dead ringer for HAL9000 with front USB/firewire without being too expensive.
I plan on running either Vista or Windows 7 Ultimate (OEM...) x64 with a dual-boot option for XP x86 (or Linux if I feel a bit masochistic.:p)
I miss the old days when I had spare time out the wazoo and actually knew what I was doing. I HATE getting old.
First, the old:
Abit KT7, Duron 650 @ 950, 512MB PC133, nVidia GF3 Ti200 64MB VIVO...
...yeah. Apu's Hardware vintage, if any of you remember back that far.
Currently I'm using a heavy duty Core2 Duo P9500/4GB GF 9800M GTX/1GB laptop, but other members of the household don't.
Basically I was looking into building a computer that would be more or less used for internet and office applications (most of the time...), but not necessarily the dumpy 5lb empty box that most business computers are. I was thinking more in terms of using ECC memory and maybe RAID1 or RAID5.
It would occasionally be used for video editing (particularly AVCHD) if I ever figure out how, along with some 24/96 or 24/192 audio capture. Some gaming and Blu-ray too, although I haven't played anything made since about 2006 since trying to keep a computer up to date enough to play newer games is too much of a PITA (and wallet).
It's also going to end up running 24/7, so nothing horrific on power consumption, and no room heaters.
One wrinkle. Right now I use the old computer as a TV (VIVO, audio input from a VCR) and everything is in the analog domain. I'd like to be able to continue doing this mostly because it's a heavily-used function by other members of the household. I haven't gone to a digital A/V receiver yet. I'd have to take all my perfectly working equipment, chuck it in the dumpster, and buy all new stuff...
But I digress...
I'd probably be looking at a new monitor, keyboard, same mouse, same PCI Terratec EWX24/96 if I can still use it, new hard drives, DVD-RW, MAYBE a blu-ray drive. EIA-232 and parallel port (add-on card, obviously), new case, power supply (unless I can keep using my 380W Seasonic S12-II)... the whole mess essentially.
The method I used when I bought the laptop was I went with a company with a good reputation and optioned up, stopping short of when the prices shot to the moon in the drop-down lists. As a price/performance optimization method it worked well. It ended up being a little more than what I wanted to spend, but that's generally how these things usually work.
I'd like to keep it under $2k (or better yet, $1.5k)...I was thinking in terms of motherboards as starting with an Intel WX58BP and i7-9something, although someone I know says there's only one or two companies left that can actually *make* a *good* motherboard and that Intel had fallen off that list... so I have no idea what I'm doing. ...and the TDP of that CPU line (~130W) is high. (4GB+ ECC RAM)
Video... no idea. 1GB+. Composite input would be nice. HDMI/DVI output with appropriate monitor (1080+ lines)
Sound... I'd start out with what the board has to begin with (if any) and see whether or not the line-in/line-out quality sucks. I have a Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 (USB 2.0) that does not play ball with SpeedStep (or whatever they call it now) or this laptop's ACPI. I can use that if the PCI Terratec is a no-go.
Networking... 1Gb/100Mbps. No Broadcom. Preferably Intel.
Storage... Right now 500GB is PLENTY (320 would be 'enough'). RAID1 or RAID5. I'm sick of losing data. I do back up. More storage I'd add with external volumes. SSDs for anything other than bootup/system is too costly.
Case... well built, quiet and doesn't overheat, no plastic chrome, no beige, no radioactive glow. Preferably a dead ringer for HAL9000 with front USB/firewire without being too expensive.
I plan on running either Vista or Windows 7 Ultimate (OEM...) x64 with a dual-boot option for XP x86 (or Linux if I feel a bit masochistic.:p)
I miss the old days when I had spare time out the wazoo and actually knew what I was doing. I HATE getting old.
0
Comments
ECC memory generally is going to be really expensive, as they don't really make any end-user-targetted RAM with ECC these days. Thankfully, the failure rates on modern memory are also very low.
Any computer can be a room heater, even a laptop. It's not really about the hardware in the PC, it's about the load levels you put on it. My Dell Studio 1735 laptop does a great job of heating my room when it's running folding@home.
380W is not going to be big enough for most modern new systems, unless you go with a really low-power build (such as an Athlon II x4). Your PCI card can still be put into a new system as the slot hasn't been completely phased out yet, but finding drivers for vista / win7 could be tough depending on the age of the hardware.
Should be easily attainable. In fact, with a budget of $1.5k, you could have a pretty powerful rig on your hands. Just don't be too tempted by $600 parts.
In my opinion, the brand of motherboards most likely to be reliable in the (very) long term is Gigabyte, and in particular their Ultra Durable series. The UD series uses high quality japanese capacitors and has double the normal amount of copper in the PCB for physical durability. DFI is also a good choice for price/performance motherboards.
You won't find anything with video inputs these days, that's a feature that's basically gone. My suggestion here, go with a decent card (check out the Radeon HD5000 series, they're the current leaders in both performance and price/performance), and pick up a TV tuner to do your video inputs.
Onboard audio has come leaps and bounds. The quality of the codecs built into most motherboards is quite good these days, but you can't beat what a discrete sound card can give you. If you're an audiophile, I'd suggest a card from the Asus Xonar series... if you find you can live with the onboard sound, don't bother.
All motherboards come with onboard networking nowadays. It's considered a core feature. It's completely unnecessary to purchase additional hardware, unless you just want more RJ45 ports.
Presently, bang-for-buck resides with the 1.5 TB hard drives, last time I checked the stores. 1TB drives are still very close, but the 1.5s are slightly better. You're not looking at more than about $200 if you go with 2x 1.5TB drives for a RAID1 configuration.
This basically comes down to your personal choice. Shop around a bit, here's some manufacturer links:
Thermaltake
Cooler Master
Antec
NZXT
Definitely go with Windows 7. It's basically vista, only without the extra blubber, and with a lot more curves. All in all a much better operating system.
That's what the community is here to do - help you to make good choices! Never hurts to ask.
Of course the graphics card might make for slight overkill given what you have in mind, but if you wanted to do some gaming $185 is a great price. You would need an AM2+ board that supports AM3 with a bios flash, probably a 770 board for around $75, case, power supply, hard drive, optical drive, OS, you will be set.
Core i7 860 - $290
OR
DFI X58-T3eH6 - $220
Core i7 920 - $290
Radeon HD 5850 video card?
Silverstone Raven RV-02 case
Basic Blu-Ray drive
gobs of DDR3 ram.
Windows 7 64bit
And something like this for your analog video?
Also, if you really need some XP x86 action, Win7 Pro, Enterprise, and Ultimate come with a built-in, fully licensed virtual XP install that can run essentially seamlessly with your Win7 programs.
Cooler Master HAF 922. ~$100.
Sort of a HAL9000 with an attitude problem and packing a minigun. Shouldn't have any cooling issues with it, and it probably shouldn't be too hard to to add the requisite Frost-King universal A/C filter foam.
Gigabyte GA-P55-UD5 ~$210 or
Gigabyte GA-P55-UD3R ~$134
Hard to make up my mind (Gigabyte's site is down as I'm typing this) the '5 has firewire (among other things), but I have a PCI firewire card I could bring over from the old machine. I am concerned about whether or not it has a Foxconn socket (I see some have been burning up CPU contact pads). I don't plan on overclocking (very heavily), but in the long term maintaining proper contact is a concern.
Intel i7-860. ~$290
(not sure which Microcenter you're looking at but the one I see only has 5 CPU models and none of them are the '920)
Windows 7 Ultimate OEM ~$170
With Vista I use VirtualPC with XP loaded sometimes but that doesn't provide 3D hardware acceleration, hence the dual boot. (Plus it's great help for recovering when NTFS on the Vista partition gets FUBAR'd when I have to hold the power switch in to shut down.)
"Video Cards: Showing 1-50 of 1237 Products"
Oh geez.
Kingston HyperX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) (<-- did I get it all?) ~$177.
Total so far is ~$871 to $947.
I'll have to figure out what to do for video, storage, and monitor later. I have to get to bed.
Being concerned about it is the equivalent of being concerned about your daily driver because it might blow the motor with a 150 shot of nitrous.
Well I ordered the parts. I'm going to hold off for now on the Blu-ray drive since I have a severely underutilized PATA DVD burner here that I used with my old laptop. The TV tuner/capture is also an add-later item since we still have analog cable (bleh) and whatever I decide on, it'll be the wrong choice for the future... I'm also going to hold off on the monitor because that's something I generally select a bit more carefully. No matter how hard I try I never seem to have good luck with monitors.
So yeah I'll be looking at the 3yo accidental vacuum cleaner wand bruise turned creeping black death a little while longer.
Anyway, it came out to $1759, which was in the budget range I had set. I could easily toss in another video card, more memory, a monitor, or a Blu-ray and still be in that range. I'd rather just save a little longer and add on later... I'm genuinely surprised what kind of computer you can put together for the money these days.
This seems to be a pretty sane selection with some room to grow, although it's been a while since I put a computer together so I don't have any qualitative (or quantitative) concept of how some of these components perform compared to the rest of the current offerings or the aging stalwart it's intended to displace. I trust you'll tell me if I'm doing something totally bonkers.
I intend on starting another thread (or continuing this one) once all the parts get here and I start putting it together (with pictures if appropriate), since I just KNOW something will crop up.
It's hard to beat a stock system with an I7 920, 9GB of DDR3-1066, ATI Radeon HD 4850 - 1GB graphics card that starts at $1200. It's quite a deal. I would rather have a different Video card and faster memory, swap what's in the system and sell the parts
I also prefer a motherboard with USB3 and SATA3-6GB/s so the system will be able to use new products that are coming to market without need to replace the mobo or get a controller card for USB3 and SATA3.
down side for you; it only has PCI-e slots no PCI so your Terratec EWX24/96 pci card would be out.
I consider the HP Pavilion Elite E9280F as the base line for any new system to be speced out.
For the same money you can get a DFI X58 board, the same i7 920, 6GB of Kingston HyperX DDR3-2000, a 1.5TB Seagate 7200rpm drive, Antec 900, HIS HD 4890, 700W OCZ PSU, and a Lite-ON BluRay drive.
Throw in your favorite copy of Win7 x64 and you've got a better system. Faster, more tweakability, better quality hardware...
godzilla525, you're gonna have a great computer there.
I wasn't saying to use it as a benchmark, I was saying that it represents a good starting point for considering hardware for a new system build. For an OEM it's not bad, minus the missing USB3 and SATA3, and lower end video. I don't mind the slower ram, as I would rather have more ram which typically is better for what I do.
I'm guessing the prices on components has come down since I last spec something equivalent. It was $1500 vs $1200 last I looked. there are also a few new HP models since I last looked (HP Pavilion Elite E9270F for $1100 and HP Pavilion Elite E9290F for $1230 with 1.8gb GTX260 card) but none that have USB3 or SATA3
Last time I was specing a system I was thinking of the GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD3 mobo as the base for an i7 system (but then your using the LGA1156 socket, not sure if it matters)
I don't mind the OEM case, I find HP's upper-end has decent cases. My current system is based on an micro-ATX HP OEM with a replaced motherboard and full-version OS. It's been just as nice as any other specialty case I've worked with
godzilla525, I'm sure you'll be happy with your new system