I agree completely with Cliff. When did the requirement come about that the secret to a film's success is pretentious, 'deep' stories and interactions?
The problem with the Golden Globes is their lack of an appropriate 'best film' category. They have best comedy, and best drama. While AVATAR may not fit perfectly in either category, they certainly would NOT leave the film without consideration for a Globe, so it recieved a nomination, and won. Had the organization had more appropriate film categories, this may not have been so absurd.
Not to mention, looking at the list of films up for best drama... It really wasn't very contested. Hurt Locker was the only one I imagined would beat it. The rest of the films on that list? Meh.
AVATAR is deserving of it's success. Everyone is always quick to jump on the IT'S ABOUT THE STORY bandwagon. It's not just about the story, it's about the storytelling. How it's told. AVATAR is leaps and bounds above most films this year in that respect, and Movie-goers have made it obviously clear that AVATAR is the film they want. Regardless of the validity of yesterday's best picture-drama award, I believe hands down that Jim Cameron deserved best director.
I agree completely with Cliff. When did the requirement come about that the secret to a film's success is pretentious, 'deep' stories and interactions?
The problem with the Golden Globes is their lack of an appropriate 'best film' category. They have best comedy, and best drama. While AVATAR may not fit perfectly in either category, they certainly would NOT leave the film without consideration for a Globe, so it recieved a nomination, and won. Had the organization had more appropriate film categories, this may not have been so absurd.
Not to mention, looking at the list of films up for best drama... It really wasn't very contested. Hurt Locker was the only one I imagined would beat it. The rest of the films on that list? Meh.
AVATAR is deserving of it's success. Everyone is always quick to jump on the IT'S ABOUT THE STORY bandwagon. It's not just about the story, it's about the storytelling. How it's told. AVATAR is leaps and bounds above most films this year in that respect, and Movie-goers have made it obviously clear that AVATAR is the film they want. Regardless of the validity of yesterday's best picture-drama award, I believe hands down that Jim Cameron deserved best director.
Oh, ChipDapper, You are such a troll.
This... As I and others have mentioned, part of the enjoyment of this film was that the story was rather simplistic. This allowed me to follow along with little effort, and spend the entire time experiencing the visuals, which was really what the movie was about.
The story was there because you need one for a movie.
Side topic, I'm still not into 3D. It gave me a headache again, and honestly, I think it would have worked just as well if I went and saw the regular 2D presentation, which I likely will if I get a chance to see it again.
The visuals are amazing, its the first time I have seen digital characters that I actually felt were tangible. I could accept them as flesh and blood and not a fancy cartoon, but, none of this matters if I don't care about the Navi, and, for some reason, I did, I wanted them to succeed, I wanted them to fight off their aggressors, and isn't that good drama?
The problem with the Golden Globes is their lack of an appropriate 'best film' category. They have best comedy, and best drama. While AVATAR may not fit perfectly in either category, they certainly would NOT leave the film without consideration for a Globe, so it recieved a nomination, and won. Had the organization had more appropriate film categories, this may not have been so absurd.
...
AVATAR is deserving of it's success. Everyone is always quick to jump on the IT'S ABOUT THE STORY bandwagon. It's not just about the story, it's about the storytelling. How it's told. AVATAR is leaps and bounds above most films this year in that respect, and Movie-goers have made it obviously clear that AVATAR is the film they want. Regardless of the validity of yesterday's best picture-drama award, I believe hands down that Jim Cameron deserved best director.
I think Lynx nailed it, I agree completely.
Cliff, I need to go see it in 2D, I'd love to find out if I experience the film differently without being more immersed in a world with depth. In a few years, with better technology maybe we'll really be able to nail down the tech enough that it doesn't bother people's eyes, give anyone a headache or dim the screen. As 3D hits more consumer devices I'd love to see how Avatar will hold up to different tech too.
Oh, and Lynx, did you listen to the VFX Show episode on Avatar? It was exceptional, especially since David and Mark had both worked on the film.
Everyone is always quick to jump on the IT'S ABOUT THE STORY bandwagon.
As opposed to what? The "glah glah, Avatar was the best movie ever and nothing about it sucks at all (drool)" bandwagon?
I fully accept that your criteria for enjoyment of a film are indeed different from my own. A majority of what I enjoy in film is the writing, creativity, and characterization. If a story isn't character driven, as opposed to plot driven, it will hold but little of my interest.
My argument is that by these criteria, Avatar is not a dismal failure. However, it does not stand out from the herd of uninteresting film in the least.
Speaking of films that won awards they shouldn't have- I think the more pressing issue here is how the hell the Hangover won for best comedy/musical?! I mean it was funny, but nowhere near clever enough to win, in my opinion.
Speaking of films that won awards they shouldn't have- I think the more pressing issue here is how the hell the Hangover won for best comedy/musical?! I mean it was funny, but nowhere near clever enough to win, in my opinion.
The Hangover is the finest R rated comedy ever, period, its brilliant. How chain of crazy events came together, it was not just dirty jokes and smut just for the sake of dirty jokes and smut as most R rated comedies are, instead, it was actually pretty well written and put together. The end result is hilarious. Honestly, I can't think of a single film where I ever laughed harder, my wife and I could not stop talking about how funny it was, then friends and family went to see it then friends of theirs did after they recommended it. I do not know a single person that did not laugh their ass off.
Whereas I think The Hangover was the least funny comedy I have ever seen in my life. I have never before seen a comedy movie where it was so unfunny that I <i>didn't even smile</i>, and I love a good comedy.
Went with Bandrik tonight and finally saw AVATAR in IMAX. Screen was XBOX HUEG. .
Chip, I'm just saying that it is possible (and rather frequent) to have STORY but fall completely flat in the delivery. You could have the greatest written story in the world, but if the storytelling sucks, then it makes no difference.
Bad example, but it's 4am and its the first one that came to my head and I'm tired - The Village. In all intents and purposes, the story was fine, and even a bit interesting. So much about how it was achieved, however, completely sucked.
Ah screw it, I'm exhausted. I think you know what I mean. If not, talk some smack and I'll get back to it when I'm cognatively able. Bed.
Prime, you should see it. But you knew I'd say that.
Except we're not really talking story in this particular instance.
The point is simple; as Avatar wasn't a drama, it had no business winning an award for best drama. Give it whatever the heck kind of awards you want. I really think that Avatar could have and probably should have won some type of award/awards and I am genuinely happy that many people enjoyed it.
However, it is also equally ridiculous when a movie does have weak points (SUCH AS THE DAMN WRITING) and no one is saying, "Yeah, I love the movie but such-and-such part could have been better." To defend something equally and on every point no matter what is a bit...well, ridiculous.
I'm not trying to be that snooty killjoy dude but I do believe that almost all movies have room for improvement...some (in my opinion, Avatar) a lot more than others.
Whereas I think The Hangover was the least funny comedy I have ever seen in my life. I have never before seen a comedy movie where it was so unfunny that I <i>didn't even smile</i>, and I love a good comedy.
Blasphemy!
Not sure how you saw it, but for me comedy works best in a theater with the audience. Its hard to recapture at home by yourself. The theater I was in was having a riot. I'm not discrediting your opinion, but its kinda like me being in the die hard AMD fan club, we are definitely are entitled to be as stubborn as we want to be about it, but we have to admit we have the minority share on this one. The theater I was in was a riot, the audience response was tremendous. If you did not find it funny, well, your just not in the cool kids club on this one.
Ultimately what I think makes for the best humor is some wacky version of the truth. When I saw American Pie in the theater I laughed my ass off, my wife thought it was kind of funny, but she asked me why I found it more so, and I told her, because I was that kid that thought he was the last one on earth still trying to get laid for the first time. I thought American Pie captured the humorous essence of being seventeen years old as honestly as comedy could.
As a guy that has awaken in a strange place once or twice after a bachelor party, I have to say, The Hangover is hilarious.
I have a vast collection of comedy movies, and it's one of my favorite genres, but I was so utterly unamused by it that I don't even know where to begin.
Perhaps the "omg adult frat bro shenanigans" comedy genre isn't for me.
🐌Austin, TXIcrontian
edited January 2010
shrugs
I have a vast collection of comedy movies, and it's one of my favorite genres, but I was so utterly unamused by it that I don't even know where to begin.
Perhaps the "omg adult frat bro shenanigans" comedy genre isn't for me.
However, it is also equally ridiculous when a movie does have weak points (SUCH AS THE DAMN WRITING) and no one is saying, "Yeah, I love the movie but such-and-such part could have been better." To defend something equally and on every point no matter what is a bit...well, ridiculous.
You don't think people are talking about the writing? You don't think the main criticism everyone has towards AVATAR is the writing? It's a statement that's been discussed literally everywhere. It's hardly going unnoticed.
But AVATAR is such a grand achievement of filmmaking, it simply cannot be ignored. It deserved to win something. As I said, the weakness of the Globes is lack of an appropriate category (not even anything to recognice special effects). But if they would have not given AVATAR any nods other than 'director' and 'musical score', people would have flipped out. Sure, it is probably absurd that it won for drama (though I'm perfectly OK with that category for AVATAR), but it would be equally absurd to not put the film up for consideration for anything.
This award stuff is as much about politics as it is about recognizing good works of film. The academy is no different than the awards. It's LA, it's how it works.
Chris - I forgot to mention, I DID listen to that VFXShow. It was outstanding. That was actually the first episode of VFXShow I had listened to (finally) and now I'm hooked. A great program, and it had wonderful insight from David and Mark.
Also - forgot to mention last night. Seeing the film in IMAX was great, definitely the best viewing experience I've had. The 3D, however, not so impressive. The IMAX was film projection, used standard IMAX 3D. It hurt my head more, and wasn't as full as general 'oomph' as RealD does. In short, it's worth seeing in IMAX, but seeing the film in DLP Digital with RealD is definitely the superior stereo experience.
I'm curious about the Dolby 3D, and how it stacks up to RealD.
Thanks to one of my friends, I saw The Hangover last night. I don't see what the big deal was about it. Granted Christine and Kristy (yes, I have two friends, who are nigh inseparable named Christine and Kristy, to top it off they have a third friend named Crystal) were talking through most of the movie as they are wont to do, but it didn't strike me as that spectacular of a movie. Sure, parts of it were funny, but none of it came close to living up to all the "omfg funniest movie ever" I've been hearing.
Movies that turn out to be dumb because of incompetent filmmaking are really difficult to swallow.
Calculated stupidity (ala Kung Pow: Enter the Fist), however, is a blast to watch.
Still not sure why everyone's so butt hurt about AVATAR taking the best drama. It fit there, better than it did in any other category, and it deserved to be recognized for the achievement it was.
Comments
I agree completely with Cliff. When did the requirement come about that the secret to a film's success is pretentious, 'deep' stories and interactions?
The problem with the Golden Globes is their lack of an appropriate 'best film' category. They have best comedy, and best drama. While AVATAR may not fit perfectly in either category, they certainly would NOT leave the film without consideration for a Globe, so it recieved a nomination, and won. Had the organization had more appropriate film categories, this may not have been so absurd.
Not to mention, looking at the list of films up for best drama... It really wasn't very contested. Hurt Locker was the only one I imagined would beat it. The rest of the films on that list? Meh.
AVATAR is deserving of it's success. Everyone is always quick to jump on the IT'S ABOUT THE STORY bandwagon. It's not just about the story, it's about the storytelling. How it's told. AVATAR is leaps and bounds above most films this year in that respect, and Movie-goers have made it obviously clear that AVATAR is the film they want. Regardless of the validity of yesterday's best picture-drama award, I believe hands down that Jim Cameron deserved best director.
Oh, ChipDapper, You are such a troll.
This... As I and others have mentioned, part of the enjoyment of this film was that the story was rather simplistic. This allowed me to follow along with little effort, and spend the entire time experiencing the visuals, which was really what the movie was about.
The story was there because you need one for a movie.
The visuals are amazing, its the first time I have seen digital characters that I actually felt were tangible. I could accept them as flesh and blood and not a fancy cartoon, but, none of this matters if I don't care about the Navi, and, for some reason, I did, I wanted them to succeed, I wanted them to fight off their aggressors, and isn't that good drama?
I think Lynx nailed it, I agree completely.
Cliff, I need to go see it in 2D, I'd love to find out if I experience the film differently without being more immersed in a world with depth. In a few years, with better technology maybe we'll really be able to nail down the tech enough that it doesn't bother people's eyes, give anyone a headache or dim the screen. As 3D hits more consumer devices I'd love to see how Avatar will hold up to different tech too.
Oh, and Lynx, did you listen to the VFX Show episode on Avatar? It was exceptional, especially since David and Mark had both worked on the film.
As opposed to what? The "glah glah, Avatar was the best movie ever and nothing about it sucks at all (drool)" bandwagon?
I fully accept that your criteria for enjoyment of a film are indeed different from my own. A majority of what I enjoy in film is the writing, creativity, and characterization. If a story isn't character driven, as opposed to plot driven, it will hold but little of my interest.
My argument is that by these criteria, Avatar is not a dismal failure. However, it does not stand out from the herd of uninteresting film in the least.
Dramas of 2009 better fit for a Best Drama award:
Brothers
Public Enemies
The Hangover is the finest R rated comedy ever, period, its brilliant. How chain of crazy events came together, it was not just dirty jokes and smut just for the sake of dirty jokes and smut as most R rated comedies are, instead, it was actually pretty well written and put together. The end result is hilarious. Honestly, I can't think of a single film where I ever laughed harder, my wife and I could not stop talking about how funny it was, then friends and family went to see it then friends of theirs did after they recommended it. I do not know a single person that did not laugh their ass off.
Chip, I'm just saying that it is possible (and rather frequent) to have STORY but fall completely flat in the delivery. You could have the greatest written story in the world, but if the storytelling sucks, then it makes no difference.
Bad example, but it's 4am and its the first one that came to my head and I'm tired - The Village. In all intents and purposes, the story was fine, and even a bit interesting. So much about how it was achieved, however, completely sucked.
Ah screw it, I'm exhausted. I think you know what I mean. If not, talk some smack and I'll get back to it when I'm cognatively able. Bed.
Prime, you should see it. But you knew I'd say that.
The point is simple; as Avatar wasn't a drama, it had no business winning an award for best drama. Give it whatever the heck kind of awards you want. I really think that Avatar could have and probably should have won some type of award/awards and I am genuinely happy that many people enjoyed it.
However, it is also equally ridiculous when a movie does have weak points (SUCH AS THE DAMN WRITING) and no one is saying, "Yeah, I love the movie but such-and-such part could have been better." To defend something equally and on every point no matter what is a bit...well, ridiculous.
I'm not trying to be that snooty killjoy dude but I do believe that almost all movies have room for improvement...some (in my opinion, Avatar) a lot more than others.
Blasphemy!
Not sure how you saw it, but for me comedy works best in a theater with the audience. Its hard to recapture at home by yourself. The theater I was in was having a riot. I'm not discrediting your opinion, but its kinda like me being in the die hard AMD fan club, we are definitely are entitled to be as stubborn as we want to be about it, but we have to admit we have the minority share on this one. The theater I was in was a riot, the audience response was tremendous. If you did not find it funny, well, your just not in the cool kids club on this one.
Ultimately what I think makes for the best humor is some wacky version of the truth. When I saw American Pie in the theater I laughed my ass off, my wife thought it was kind of funny, but she asked me why I found it more so, and I told her, because I was that kid that thought he was the last one on earth still trying to get laid for the first time. I thought American Pie captured the humorous essence of being seventeen years old as honestly as comedy could.
As a guy that has awaken in a strange place once or twice after a bachelor party, I have to say, The Hangover is hilarious.
I can't imagine not laughing throughout that entire film.
I can think of two from 2008 which were better, but none in 2009.
I have a vast collection of comedy movies, and it's one of my favorite genres, but I was so utterly unamused by it that I don't even know where to begin.
Perhaps the "omg adult frat bro shenanigans" comedy genre isn't for me.
I have a vast collection of comedy movies, and it's one of my favorite genres, but I was so utterly unamused by it that I don't even know where to begin.
Perhaps the "omg adult frat bro shenanigans" comedy genre isn't for me.
Some people just don't like dumb movies.
James Cameron movies are released when they're ready, much like Duke Nukem Forever.
Oh wait.
You don't think people are talking about the writing? You don't think the main criticism everyone has towards AVATAR is the writing? It's a statement that's been discussed literally everywhere. It's hardly going unnoticed.
But AVATAR is such a grand achievement of filmmaking, it simply cannot be ignored. It deserved to win something. As I said, the weakness of the Globes is lack of an appropriate category (not even anything to recognice special effects). But if they would have not given AVATAR any nods other than 'director' and 'musical score', people would have flipped out. Sure, it is probably absurd that it won for drama (though I'm perfectly OK with that category for AVATAR), but it would be equally absurd to not put the film up for consideration for anything.
This award stuff is as much about politics as it is about recognizing good works of film. The academy is no different than the awards. It's LA, it's how it works.
Chris - I forgot to mention, I DID listen to that VFXShow. It was outstanding. That was actually the first episode of VFXShow I had listened to (finally) and now I'm hooked. A great program, and it had wonderful insight from David and Mark.
I'm curious about the Dolby 3D, and how it stacks up to RealD.
Oh, still no Avatar yet.
Movies that turn out to be dumb because of incompetent filmmaking are really difficult to swallow.
Calculated stupidity (ala Kung Pow: Enter the Fist), however, is a blast to watch.
Still not sure why everyone's so butt hurt about AVATAR taking the best drama. It fit there, better than it did in any other category, and it deserved to be recognized for the achievement it was.
fixt because there is nothing funny about Kung Pow.
Kung Fu Hustle was great, too, but Kung Pow was 100% calculated, and understated brilliance.