James Cameron's AVATAR

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Comments

  • GrimnocGrimnoc Marion, IN
    edited January 2010
    :bigggrin:, I just love to argue

    Excellent! As you can tell, I'm fond of it myself. :)
  • GrimnocGrimnoc Marion, IN
    edited January 2010
    Bandrik wrote:
    See, this is where I disagree on a fundamental level. I agree that Avatar has rather simplistic writing when it comes to the story itself. But instead of scorning this, I actually welcome it. I really don't think I would have enjoyed Avatar further if it had an extremely complex story filled with mystery, unexpected turning points, and intricately laid surprise betrayals. Far from it, I feel that these would have hampered the sense of storytelling.

    From my designer's standpoint, simplicity can often leave a rather powerful impact. In contrast, a very busy and chaotic design is often ineffective and just leaves the viewer feeling lost. There's also the phrase "KISS", or "Keep it Simple, Stupid".

    Point is, keeping Avatar's story simple and straightforward was something that really makes it have a solid and to-the-point angle, using (admittedly breathtaking) visuals to help direct the story as much as character dialog.

    And that's why I liked it.

    I'm sorry, I probably should have been more specific here. I wasn't meaning to implicate the story, but rather the actual written part of the script which the audience hears, aka, the dialogue (and in other films things like voiceovers and such).

    I can understand why people like the story of Avatar along with the arguments of why it being simple is not necessarily a bad thing, and I really have no problem with. I don't like it personally, and I don't think it's good...but I don't think it's a game-ender for me. Heck, I really liked Star Trek, Zombieland, and Sherlock Holmes and I'd say those stories were certainly no better than Avatar! :)
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI
    edited January 2010
    Grimnoc wrote:
    It would lose nothing by having a setting which utilizes the strength of science fiction.

    Wait, wait, wait. What problems do you have with the setting? That's one of the things people have said that he has done nearly perfectly, along with much of the other science-related content. The physics and characteristics of the world are actually NOT a huge stretch.
  • UPSLynxUPSLynx :KAPPA: Redwood City, CA
    edited January 2010
    Grimnoc wrote:
    It would lose nothing by having a setting which utilizes the strength of science fiction.

    Agreeing with Snarkasm's comments above. This is a point you've made to me before, but I will not buy into it. just because you think using science fiction requires an elaborate exploitation of the medium doesn't mean that using it to the extent they did to create Pandora and its inhabitants is 'not trying hard enough'.

    Though I know you'll disagree with me Grimnoc, when you ask for redeeming qualities OTHER than the VFX, one I will easily say is the imagination and believability of the world of Pandora. And I don't mean in the visuals, I mean in the created canon, the developed language, the science behind it all. The effort put behind the creation of all of it is so far beyond what most any other scifi film has done, and that's all with a completely original story.

    And though at this point it hardly needs to be stated - Prime has it. The whole package IS important, not the sum. Especially important in film. Of course I don't think the film is that damaged by its story/writing as Grimnoc implies, but whatever.

    People wonder why we debate so much about this, and why any of it matters. I know I debate because I love film and VFX, it is my passion, and I love to talk about it. "In Reality", I don't have many people that I can talk to about AVATAR to this extent, so it's fun for me to discuss it with all of you the way we are.

    Though it is funny - a wave of opponants do come before a film like AVATAR because of its massive financial success. Probably in response to its seemingly unwarranted or undeserving critical response. Perhaps a combination of bitterness towards it, and the adoration of what is percieved as a flawed work. Things progress though, as both sides of the argument continue to dish out increasingly better researched arguments which create a larger divide between the two sides, and rather than any of us finding common ground (which I can tell you, Grimnoc, Chip and myself are all too stubborn to budge), we repel one another until our arguments don't really represent our initial responses to the film. Grimnoc remedied this himself with his recent post explaining that he did, in fact, enjoy the film. Just an interesting progression of the whole thing.

    I am glad that the discussion seems to finally be going places as of late though.
  • CBCB Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Der Millionendorf-
    edited January 2010
    UPSLynx wrote:
    and that's all with a completely original story.

    pocahontas_4.jpg
  • ThraxThrax Professional Shill, Watch Slut, Mumble Hivemind Drone Austin, TX
    edited January 2010
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  • BandrikBandrik Elkhart, IN
    edited January 2010
    Snarkasm wrote:
    Wait, wait, wait. What problems do you have with the setting? That's one of the things people have said that he has done nearly perfectly, along with much of the other science-related content. The physics and characteristics of the world are actually NOT a huge stretch.

    Took the time to read those two articles. I found them to be quite fascinating! I was under the impression that AVATAR's Pandora was fairly plausible, but I didn't realize that the science fiction nuts were also feeling fairly the same way. Reading about Alpha Centauri A system and theories that life on Pandora would not have the same color vision as us (due to possible high amounts of UV spectrum exposure from its star) was quite a treat. If anything, it raised my respect for Cameron for doing some serious scientific thought when he put this together, as opposed to generic science fantasy gimmicks such as pew-pew lasers and breathable atmospheres on most space opera planets.

    There was even a plausible explanation for the floating Hallelujah Mountains. The explanation that superconductors can and do float when placed above a magnetic field (which I knew about but didn't really apply to AVATAR) made the floating mountains less of a magic hand wave from a wizard and more of something that at worst no longer totally boggles my mind. Considering that its "unobtanium" is a superconductor at "room temperature", it makes more sense now.

    Okay done geeking out. Point is, thanks for the links, Snark!
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI
    edited January 2010
    Pocahontas is f*cking hot.
  • edited January 2010
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  • BuddyJBuddyJ Dept. of Propaganda OKC
    edited January 2010
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  • chrisWhitechrisWhite Littleton, CO
    edited January 2010
    Grimnoc wrote:
    And this is the point, regardless of how you or I feel about Avatar or Pride and Prejudice the latter has better writing. In comparison, Avatar is the ramblings of a retarded child, while Pride and Prejudice bespeakes an actual writer.

    I'm not saying Avatar needs to have the level of writing that Pride and Prejudice attains, but refusing to acknowlege ones' vast superiority and anothers' lack is what bakes my noodle.

    I will absolutely agree with you, Pride and Prejudice, one of the greatest works of English literature by one of the greatest writers in history has a much deeper, evocative and structurally sound story.

    But, I think it's a somewhat unfair comparison. Pride and Prejudice is a book first and as such is comprised of only two elements; story and writing style. Granted, there have been a few wonderful adaptations of the book to film but it's still fundamentally a book.

    Avatar on the other hand is a much more complex combination of many different elements. It's not just the story, it's the cinematography, the visual effects, the 3D stereoscopic and the good acting all together that make it such a fantastic film. By itself, the story may not go down in literary history, but I think as a book it would still be compelling to read, I'll let you know when I finish reading the script. Then add that to a masterpiece of cinematography and visual effects and I think it ultimately is one of the finest films of the year.

    Transformers 2, 2012, those are films that exist only because of the visual effects and have no story, I would argue that Avatar is in quite a different category then those films.
  • CBCB Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Der Millionendorf-
    edited January 2010
    chrisWhite wrote:
    a book [...] is comprised of only two elements; story and writing style.

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  • chrisWhitechrisWhite Littleton, CO
    edited January 2010
    lol, a book like Pride and Prejudice then, well, before you post something, I guess it has a cover too, and paper quality. It's a simplification, I know, but I'm simplifying most sides of the equation for the sake of clarity.
  • UPSLynxUPSLynx :KAPPA: Redwood City, CA
    edited January 2010
    Xbox hueg pocahontas pic

    RESIZE AND COMPRESS CB, DO YOU USE IT??
  • chrisWhitechrisWhite Littleton, CO
    edited January 2010
    Lynx is shouting but I'm not entirely sure what he's shouting about. CB's image is 39KB
  • CBCB Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Der Millionendorf-
    edited January 2010
    attachment.php?attachmentid=28155&stc=1&d=1264786500
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI
    edited January 2010
    lol @ CB
  • edited January 2010
    Icrontic, destroying my faith in humanity faster than /b/
  • chrisWhitechrisWhite Littleton, CO
    edited January 2010
    Oh, that one. Well done CB.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI
    edited January 2010
    CB's troll: 9/10

    I actually loled
  • BuddyJBuddyJ Dept. of Propaganda OKC
    edited January 2010
    Trolling in 2D is so 2008.
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI
    edited January 2010
    CB is on point.

    I remember when this thread had a purpose.
  • KoreishKoreish I'm a penguin, deal with it. KCMO
    edited January 2010
    You must be confused Snarkasm there was never a point to this thread other than Lynx fapping to the tech and Grimnoc moaning about the poor story telling elements.
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI
    edited January 2010
    Wups. I misinterpreted.
  • ThraxThrax Professional Shill, Watch Slut, Mumble Hivemind Drone Austin, TX
    edited January 2010
    CB, it was definitely as funny outside your head as it was inside.
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI
    edited January 2010
    Hey, where'd it go?! CB, get it back in here! That shiz was hilarious!
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI
    edited January 2010
    lolll another 9/10
  • BuddyJBuddyJ Dept. of Propaganda OKC
    edited January 2010
    CB is on a tROLL!
  • CBCB Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Der Millionendorf-
    edited January 2010
    Okay, sorry, here it is back. I was afraid that I was hijacking the thread.

    attachment.php?attachmentid=28158&stc=1&d=1264816517
  • UPSLynxUPSLynx :KAPPA: Redwood City, CA
    edited January 2010
    GEE SURE IS THREAD CRAP IN HERE.
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