Who are the officers? (besides me, just for general knowledge)
How do you become an officer? Picked, promoted, etc.
Do you need to meet certain criteria to be an officer? (depending on answer above, I guess)
Do the officers have specific responsibilities?
If yes to the above, are those going to be posted/passed along to said officers?
^^
also, if we are going to doing "trials" for new recruits we should probabley have an officer team for inviting, final evaluation of new recruits, dispute resultion, etc.
And, just a side thought. I know we have the Guild Policy in effect but should we maybe have different policies between the guild itself and the raiding team(s). I think anyone should be allowed to join the guild and play with us as long as they are respectful.
I just don't want people to be discouraged from joining when they come here and see the raiding team requirements and take that as the guild policy, unless thats what we're shooting for here.
Generally, I'd like to keep the officer staff as light as possible - I find that bloated officer ranks make for very drawn-out decision-making and generally hurt the overall efficiency of the guild as a whole.
If people think we need officers to handle things, I'm always open to compelling arguments for things that would improve the guild - but I'm not sure a recruiting "team" is one of those things. Our current officers are:
Me - Raid Leader, Bank Manager, Loot Tracker
Ryder - Bank Manager
Brian - Bank Manager
All raiding members will vote on new additions to the raid force - as such the process is kinda self-governing and gives everyone an equal say in who stays and who goes, so there is little need for specific assignment of duties.
Officer to me means that you've got a specific set of administrative duties that you must attend to regularly and consistently. It means you have an understanding of guild/people management and want to leverage that for the benefit of the guild.
Officer rank should not be something that we give as a medal of honor, or any other such recognition-based reason. It simply means that you are someone who has stepped forward to meet some perceived administrative or leadership need within the guild.
Magic, in response to your question about raiding policies vs social policies - I don't think there needs to be more of a distinction than this: Policies are only really necessary for Raiders, because of the investment of time on the part of everyone involved.
People that want to join for social reasons are always welcome to do so, there are no rules governing who can/can't join aside from what I would consider general behavioral expectations (which I would assume most people have anyway, so if someone were a problem - I'd hear about it and resolve the issue).
Well i know last night Greg wanted to invite someone and nobody was on who could do so. I dont care who it is, there are several guildies who seem to be on all the time and are respectable enough to give responsibilities to. Anne, Eli, Greg, Ryder...
Keep in mind that the responsibilities of an officer expand greatly when it comes to raiding. While a casual guild only has officers to push the invite button and manage the guild bank, a guild that raids has officers which must convene to disburse loot. This role requires attentive people that observe and consider the following in great detail: Personal need, raid benefit, attendance, total distribution, performance and social compatibility, just to name a few. And with loot comes the inevitable--yes, absolutely inevitable--feelings of resentment and outbursts of drama that must be fairly handled.
Is there someone willing and able to monitor all these things on a daily basis, and to assess their weight on a case-by-case basis? And more importantly, are they capable of standing in to perform the roles executed by other officers? Can your other officers lead raids? Can they make good guild decisions? Can they use a soft touch or a heavy hand when the situation calls for it? Do they know what raid targets are best for the guild's investment of time? Do they know every class and spec as if it were their own (essential to making educated loot decisions)? If yes, then by all means, make that person an officer.
Even so, more than 3-4 officers (including the GM) is overkill. Oversight of a guild has a practical limit as to the number of tasks that can be assigned, and the number of opinions it can withstand. Particularly when it comes to council-driven loot systems, which Icrontic is, you needn't have more than about 4 perceptive, available, vocal, capable, observant and extremely game-knowledgeable officers to convene during raids.
You and Steve have a different definition of Officer. Don't call it an officer, then, I don't care.
1 or 2 people that can invite new guildies out of 30 people, no matter how much those 2 are on, seems odd to me.
If we are ONLY going to be a raiding guild and ONLY allow people who want to commit to raiding, then fine. 1 or 2 people to make decisions about who joins/evaluate new members.. I am all for it. Too many cooks spoil the pot and slow shit down.
I was under the impression that we also would not mind other casual lower level players becoming part of Icrontic. Maybe I read it wrong
If that is the case, then give at least 2 more people the power to invite and grow the community more.
We all have made other friends along the way and those friends may be looking for a new guild from time to time.
This is supposed to be fun, this is supposed to be playing a game with my friends. Saying "you will do this because I say so and you will do it this way because I say so" without benefit of SOME explanation as to why, is not how I treat or expect to be treated by my friends. Just because said friend has more knowledge of the game in their pinky than I have in my whole head, does not make it ok .
What I just described is the very definition of an officer in a guild that raids. You'll find it's true across any guild that takes the concept seriously, be it two nights or five.
If you want someone that can invite, why not just say "We need more people who can invite others to the guild?"
Thrax described a raid team leader. We can designate raid team leaders or w/e, large guilds tend to have multiple raid team leaders. Im talking about people with administrative privs for the Icrontic guild. IE: bank access, invite, kick, promote... having 4-5 people who can do that doesn't hurt. I would like the guild to grow as large as it can, its good for the site.
Having multiple people who can promote and kick is indeed harmful. That has been proven time and time again (although only some of us have witnessed this).
Well, thisnt a buch of random people... Were all familiar with eachother
No guild is ever a random bunch of people after the initial meet and greet, they are there for a shared purpose and generally make friends of one another. However, goals are not always shared and opposing view points can lead to trouble if they are not handled responsibly...
That being said, I currently have confidence in the administration of the guild - a reason I would be hesitant to mix it up too much.
No guild is ever a random bunch of people after the initial meet and greet, they are there for a shared purpose and generally make friends of one another.
Agree to disagree. You have no idea who is on the other end of the internet, no matter how much you meet and greet them.
My point is that the core of the guild know eachother in person and have so for several years. This makes it less likely that one of us would ninja the guild bank and /kwit.
But, now we have 4 people around who can do a majority of the tasks so its fine.
I was never suggesting the issue was with a ninjaing of the guild bank. The biggest issues I've seen when there is a power struggle are among friends, sometimes RL friends. These issues tend to be about disagreements about members deserving promotions, or certain people being in the guild entirely. But I think this whole thing has been handled so we can probably just drop it.
Comments
Who are the officers? (besides me, just for general knowledge)
How do you become an officer? Picked, promoted, etc.
Do you need to meet certain criteria to be an officer? (depending on answer above, I guess)
Do the officers have specific responsibilities?
If yes to the above, are those going to be posted/passed along to said officers?
Thanks
also, if we are going to doing "trials" for new recruits we should probabley have an officer team for inviting, final evaluation of new recruits, dispute resultion, etc.
I just don't want people to be discouraged from joining when they come here and see the raiding team requirements and take that as the guild policy, unless thats what we're shooting for here.
If people think we need officers to handle things, I'm always open to compelling arguments for things that would improve the guild - but I'm not sure a recruiting "team" is one of those things. Our current officers are:
Me - Raid Leader, Bank Manager, Loot Tracker
Ryder - Bank Manager
Brian - Bank Manager
All raiding members will vote on new additions to the raid force - as such the process is kinda self-governing and gives everyone an equal say in who stays and who goes, so there is little need for specific assignment of duties.
Officer to me means that you've got a specific set of administrative duties that you must attend to regularly and consistently. It means you have an understanding of guild/people management and want to leverage that for the benefit of the guild.
Officer rank should not be something that we give as a medal of honor, or any other such recognition-based reason. It simply means that you are someone who has stepped forward to meet some perceived administrative or leadership need within the guild.
Magic, in response to your question about raiding policies vs social policies - I don't think there needs to be more of a distinction than this: Policies are only really necessary for Raiders, because of the investment of time on the part of everyone involved.
People that want to join for social reasons are always welcome to do so, there are no rules governing who can/can't join aside from what I would consider general behavioral expectations (which I would assume most people have anyway, so if someone were a problem - I'd hear about it and resolve the issue).
Is there someone willing and able to monitor all these things on a daily basis, and to assess their weight on a case-by-case basis? And more importantly, are they capable of standing in to perform the roles executed by other officers? Can your other officers lead raids? Can they make good guild decisions? Can they use a soft touch or a heavy hand when the situation calls for it? Do they know what raid targets are best for the guild's investment of time? Do they know every class and spec as if it were their own (essential to making educated loot decisions)? If yes, then by all means, make that person an officer.
Even so, more than 3-4 officers (including the GM) is overkill. Oversight of a guild has a practical limit as to the number of tasks that can be assigned, and the number of opinions it can withstand. Particularly when it comes to council-driven loot systems, which Icrontic is, you needn't have more than about 4 perceptive, available, vocal, capable, observant and extremely game-knowledgeable officers to convene during raids.
1 or 2 people that can invite new guildies out of 30 people, no matter how much those 2 are on, seems odd to me.
If we are ONLY going to be a raiding guild and ONLY allow people who want to commit to raiding, then fine. 1 or 2 people to make decisions about who joins/evaluate new members.. I am all for it. Too many cooks spoil the pot and slow shit down.
I was under the impression that we also would not mind other casual lower level players becoming part of Icrontic. Maybe I read it wrong
If that is the case, then give at least 2 more people the power to invite and grow the community more.
We all have made other friends along the way and those friends may be looking for a new guild from time to time.
This is supposed to be fun, this is supposed to be playing a game with my friends. Saying "you will do this because I say so and you will do it this way because I say so" without benefit of SOME explanation as to why, is not how I treat or expect to be treated by my friends. Just because said friend has more knowledge of the game in their pinky than I have in my whole head, does not make it ok
If you want someone that can invite, why not just say "We need more people who can invite others to the guild?"
heh.
(not really)
(ok really)
(no not really)
Between Zen, prime, Ryder, and prag we should be fine.
I'm pretty sure the only person who can demote|kick is Zen, the GL
No guild is ever a random bunch of people after the initial meet and greet, they are there for a shared purpose and generally make friends of one another. However, goals are not always shared and opposing view points can lead to trouble if they are not handled responsibly...
That being said, I currently have confidence in the administration of the guild - a reason I would be hesitant to mix it up too much.
Agree to disagree. You have no idea who is on the other end of the internet, no matter how much you meet and greet them.
My point is that the core of the guild know eachother in person and have so for several years. This makes it less likely that one of us would ninja the guild bank and /kwit.
But, now we have 4 people around who can do a majority of the tasks so its fine.
It was already dropped.