The Microsoft figures just do not stand up to scrutiny. No politics, REALITY.
John.
Your argument is weak at best. You say "No politics, REALITY." but how can you call what you just said "Reality" you just ball-parked and guesstimated your way through that "explanation" as to what percentage of the market IE actually holds.
Yeah baby, SM byte! OK camman, it's not my opinion, it's the truth. otherwise, we'd all still be driving "superior" 1920s era Ford Model Ts right? BZZZZZZZZZZ, you're wrong, thanks for playing, Chuck, what do we have for him? Well Mike, today we have a lovely parting gift, it's the short-media home game! (crowd goes oooooohhh, aaaaaaahh) It comes with your very own version of vbulletin 3, and pewter figurines of popular characters such as: Primesuspect all decked out in his wolverine costume, Shorty hacking away at some php in front of his computer, thrax arguing the side of AMD and republicans everywhere, and even kanezfan acting like a jackass as always! This lovely prize is valued at $200, but it's yours as a parting gift. Thanks for playing, buh bye!
Camman: The results are plain wrong from so many points that it's useless. For instance, anyone using Opera will be reported as IE, some other browsers which aren't IE still report themselves as IE and on top of that, this isn't a survey of everyone on the planet, it is just a collection, which is refered to as the "global usage" as they are "average people" which is why, it is massively flawed (basically the same as TV ratings).
Camman: The results are plain wrong from so many points that it's useless. For instance, anyone using Opera will be reported as IE, some other browsers which aren't IE still report themselves as IE and on top of that, this isn't a survey of everyone on the planet, it is just a collection, which is refered to as the "global usage" as they are "average people" which is why, it is massively flawed (basically the same as TV ratings).
Well I understand that the figures do sound screwy and other browsers report themselves as IE, but for him to just throw some figures out there and say "well that's reality folks" is just ridiculous.
But it matters very little because you can see from the above screenshot that I cleary have mastered most everything by "Being winner", my computer often tells me "You're winner" and then I feel better about myself even if I do use IE and everyone hates me for it.
Wow, even after MS IE has almost killed all other browsers people are still sounding bitter. Yeah, its outdated and its forced on people, but the one thing that cannot be denied is that its the most used browser by far. Does it win by default? Of course. The fact that other browsers use the engine (and get registered as IE) indicates its dominance. Innovation of web scripting is hamstringed by this fact. They just have to update it, but there's no rush since they're in the lead.
Tortoise and the hare may be a good allegory. Although, Riki Lake had me laughing. BTW, I think that survey is a POS since they don't give any info on how they gathered the stats (not even a webpage that they monitored).
The most interesting thing (to me) is the low number of Mac users that use the web. There are more people using MSIE4 than Safari (all editions!!).
From the article
The most popular browsers on the web are:
1. Microsoft IE 6.0 68.1%
2. Microsoft IE 5.5 13.8%
3. Microsoft IE 5.0 11.8%
4. Mozilla 1.8%
5. Opera 7.0 0.8%
6. Microsoft IE 4.0 0.7%
7. Safari 0.48%
One question, if MSIE was not available with the OS, would the web be as popular as it is today? I used to BBS NCSC Mosiac before MS highjacked my OS.
the web mae IE, not the otehr way around. IE won the war because it was pre-installed in the OS. up until that point, netscape was killing it. how many more people are now using MSN Messenger since it got forced down our collective throats with XP? Microsoft is a virus-like entity, i know you guys are going to jum down my throat over that, but don't be deceived. yes, they contributed greatly to the growth of the net in general, but there is no reason for them to want to murder everyone like they do.
The most interesting thing (to me) is the low number of Mac users that use the web. There are more people using MSIE4 than Safari (all editions!!).
Actually, most of the Mac users I know use MSIE, though my Macs use iCab and Mozilla. Mozilla is pretty slow on all but my 900MHz G3, but iCab is speedy on both my 68k machines and my Power Macs. iCab is a standards-compliant browser though, so it doesn't like pages that are optimized for such and such browser, but it's fast.
how many more people are now using MSN Messenger since it got forced down our collective throats with XP?
I dont know how it's like in other parts of the country/world but everyone I know and pretty much everyone I meet swear by AIM. I've been using it since like 1996, its simple and gets the job done and I use DeadAIM to get rid of all the extra crap I don't want. Always hated ICQ, and Yahoo Messenger, and I tried MSN Messenger for a while and realized it was teh suq so I never used it. Everyone I know has upgraded to XP within the last few years but I don't know any that use MSN Messenger.
trillian... i loved you... but today it lost my contact list. sure it's stored on the servers of the im services, but now it's completely fubar. i had renamed the contacts with their real names for people here at school, and now that's all gone. plus all the folders i had contacts in are gone. arrrghghghgh what a mess. wasted a bunch of time i didn't need wasted. trillian.... it's a great program, though, other than that.
I dont know how it's like in other parts of the country/world but everyone I know and pretty much everyone I meet swear by AIM. I've been using it since like 1996, its simple and gets the job done and I use DeadAIM to get rid of all the extra crap I don't want. Always hated ICQ, and Yahoo Messenger, and I tried MSN Messenger for a while and realized it was teh suq so I never used it. Everyone I know has upgraded to XP within the last few years but I don't know any that use MSN Messenger.
that's fine, but how many people signed up with msn just to get rid of the annoying reminders every ten seconds to sign up now! I bet a lot. do you think MS gives out the usage numbers or the sign up numbers? i know this is different than IE usage, but it just shows the way MS works.
I agree that MS is a bully (or marketing genius, depending on whose stock you own). A lot of their free software lags behind a lot of the others. But most companies do stuff like that. Some manufacturers make parts that force you to buy their replacements (since they add a "value added notch" or some crap like that). We rag on MS because they're the most popular. No matter how much they force these things down our throats they still help innovation.
Bear with me for a second. If they didn't give these second rate programs away for free then there wouldn't be competitors trying to one up them in trying to attract clients. A lot of companies/individuals figured out the value of a database thanks to Access. They also realised the importance of the web because they had IE pre-loaded and that AOL for free software as well. Then, when they become more savvy, they realise the limitations and look elsewhere. How many people fired up MS Paint when they first got a PC and then when hunting around for a better solution.
I'm not talking about people who've been "surfing since the sinclair", or who were cc'd on the first e-mail ever. I'm talking about Joe lunchbox who ordered a Dell and loved the OOBE (out of box experience). The amount of people on the web pre-IE pales in comparison to the last 5 years.
I'm not saying that MS hasn't rogered quite a few companies. But in the interests of computing MS has helped. Companies are switching to Linux because of the cost. Hiring a few Linux admins may be more expensive, but getting software for free and not having to worry about licenses beats that. The only thing (which is happening now) is that a lot more companies will start charging for Linux (and Linux software) and then people will flood back to MS because of the available software.
people will make off of linux by charging for support, not for the OS. people who use linux will use their favorite distro, and if the company they work for feels better about having support, they'll go out and buy Red Hat enterprise edition or something. Look at IBM, they're pushing linux big time, they're not making money off of IBM linux or anything, they're making money off of IBM hardware sold for it, and IBM support for said OS and hardware.
right, that's why apache servers go down all over the world all the time? that "windows is attacked because it's the most popular" is the weakest excuse by microsoft lovers. give me a break. windows is attacked cause it's an easy target period.
i'm with kanez on that one. When something is well designed, and tightly built, it doesn't matter how popular it is. Admittedly, a web server is a tad less complex than an entire OS, but still. Apache is the "IE" of the web serving world, and it's rock solid. Sendmail is the same way. Popularity does NOT breed insecurity, bad design and weak code does.
Funny how the increase in the popularity of Linux is directly proportional to the increase in Linux exploits, worms, and hacks.
Hmmm.
It's not a weak excuse. You just don't like it.
Popularity breeds insecurity.
where do you see this? I have heard of two linux viruses ever. ever. in the news even. I'm not saying you're totally wrong, because of course as something becomes more popular, there will be more things done to it, simply because people will attempt it, maybe they didn't even know it existed before. but this whole "linux isn't as popular, that's why windows is hacked more" is an excuse, probably put out there by MS themselves, and carried on by MS fans such as yourself. show me a study or something that proves that MS is hacked more because it's more popular than unix/linux. I'll admit you're right.
You had me until you mentioned sendmail.
Sendmail is notoriously insecure and weak. So is BIND.
Try qmail for e-mail. As for DNS, I think qmail recommends something for that too.
Though, I will say that sendmail is better than Exchange.
i'm with kanez on that one. When something is well designed, and tightly built, it doesn't matter how popular it is. Admittedly, a web server is a tad less complex than an entire OS, but still. Apache is the "IE" of the web serving world, and it's rock solid. Sendmail is the same way. Popularity does NOT breed insecurity, bad design and weak code does.
Comments
Forward, Back, Reload, Stop, Bookmarks. --- Sweet, that's a web browser.
Oh, with firebird I get no browser hijacks and no popups, and tabs. Sweet.
I pick firebird.
Who cares about the other crap? They're just web browsers, people....
Your argument is weak at best. You say "No politics, REALITY." but how can you call what you just said "Reality" you just ball-parked and guesstimated your way through that "explanation" as to what percentage of the market IE actually holds.
Well I understand that the figures do sound screwy and other browsers report themselves as IE, but for him to just throw some figures out there and say "well that's reality folks" is just ridiculous.
But it matters very little because you can see from the above screenshot that I cleary have mastered most everything by "Being winner", my computer often tells me "You're winner" and then I feel better about myself even if I do use IE and everyone hates me for it.
Tortoise and the hare may be a good allegory. Although, Riki Lake had me laughing. BTW, I think that survey is a POS since they don't give any info on how they gathered the stats (not even a webpage that they monitored).
The most interesting thing (to me) is the low number of Mac users that use the web. There are more people using MSIE4 than Safari (all editions!!).
From the article
The most popular browsers on the web are:
1. Microsoft IE 6.0 68.1%
2. Microsoft IE 5.5 13.8%
3. Microsoft IE 5.0 11.8%
4. Mozilla 1.8%
5. Opera 7.0 0.8%
6. Microsoft IE 4.0 0.7%
7. Safari 0.48%
One question, if MSIE was not available with the OS, would the web be as popular as it is today? I used to BBS NCSC Mosiac before MS highjacked my OS.
-drasnor
-drasnor
I dont know how it's like in other parts of the country/world but everyone I know and pretty much everyone I meet swear by AIM. I've been using it since like 1996, its simple and gets the job done and I use DeadAIM to get rid of all the extra crap I don't want. Always hated ICQ, and Yahoo Messenger, and I tried MSN Messenger for a while and realized it was teh suq so I never used it. Everyone I know has upgraded to XP within the last few years but I don't know any that use MSN Messenger.
that's fine, but how many people signed up with msn just to get rid of the annoying reminders every ten seconds to sign up now! I bet a lot. do you think MS gives out the usage numbers or the sign up numbers? i know this is different than IE usage, but it just shows the way MS works.
Bear with me for a second. If they didn't give these second rate programs away for free then there wouldn't be competitors trying to one up them in trying to attract clients. A lot of companies/individuals figured out the value of a database thanks to Access. They also realised the importance of the web because they had IE pre-loaded and that AOL for free software as well. Then, when they become more savvy, they realise the limitations and look elsewhere. How many people fired up MS Paint when they first got a PC and then when hunting around for a better solution.
I'm not talking about people who've been "surfing since the sinclair", or who were cc'd on the first e-mail ever. I'm talking about Joe lunchbox who ordered a Dell and loved the OOBE (out of box experience). The amount of people on the web pre-IE pales in comparison to the last 5 years.
I'm not saying that MS hasn't rogered quite a few companies. But in the interests of computing MS has helped. Companies are switching to Linux because of the cost. Hiring a few Linux admins may be more expensive, but getting software for free and not having to worry about licenses beats that. The only thing (which is happening now) is that a lot more companies will start charging for Linux (and Linux software) and then people will flood back to MS because of the available software.
Apologies for the long post.
:shakehead
Hmmm.
It's not a weak excuse. You just don't like it.
Popularity breeds insecurity.
where do you see this? I have heard of two linux viruses ever. ever. in the news even. I'm not saying you're totally wrong, because of course as something becomes more popular, there will be more things done to it, simply because people will attempt it, maybe they didn't even know it existed before. but this whole "linux isn't as popular, that's why windows is hacked more" is an excuse, probably put out there by MS themselves, and carried on by MS fans such as yourself. show me a study or something that proves that MS is hacked more because it's more popular than unix/linux. I'll admit you're right.
Sendmail is notoriously insecure and weak. So is BIND.
Try qmail for e-mail. As for DNS, I think qmail recommends something for that too.
Though, I will say that sendmail is better than Exchange.