I WANT TO READ ACTUAL INFORMATION, not your fanboy babbling. You can guarantee all you want, but I'd rather have something with a little more substance behind it. You've polluted every Fermi thread that exists on Icrontic. I'd like to read something unbiased, that's all.
Anyone who predicts giant failure rates from a company that has already once paid handily for heat-related malfunctions on a card that quite likely has already been QCed at 95-100C load is talking with his inner fanboy. Just sayin'.
Cliff the GTX 480 & 470 ship after April 12th... they are listed for pre-sale and for reference. They are not released yet!
uh huh, okay, for real this time?? Really, they are going to sell come cards?? Real ones, with actual parts that move data, and play a game for at least an hour or two before they start smoking?
Cliff I am willing to bet you will be wrong. but hey ATI trolls always need to come botch about something.
Fermi cards will most likely have the same fail rate as other cards. The Max TDP on the cards is much higher. The actually items that fail on cards is usually the memory not the core. The memory is not what runs hot on Fermi, it is the actual core.
uh huh, okay, for real this time?? Really, they are going to sell come cards?? Real ones, with actual parts that move data, and play a game for at least an hour or two before they start smoking?
Fermi will ship in quantities higher than 50,000 more than your precious ATI cards at launch.
Nvidia will start shipping the card next week in Europe and int he US on April 12th.
I WANT TO READ ACTUAL INFORMATION, not your fanboy babbling. You can guarantee all you want, but I'd rather have something with a little more substance behind it. You've polluted every Fermi thread that exists on Icrontic. I'd like to read something unbiased, that's all.
Real info per the initial reviews. At least $100 more for a card that barely outperforms a 5870, and it runs significantly hotter and draws more current, and its fan seems to be really damn loud?
So, your thoughts? What do you see here? I mean, GPU compute is interesting, its the future, and, architecturally Fermi may amount to something when its a more mature product, but for the hard core gamer today, would you straight up recommend a Fermi vs. a comparable Radeon offering?
I would not, and I say my reasoning is valid. Have at you!!!
Your reasoning is fine. Your argument needs a lot of refinement. I am merely requesting that you kindly stfu and let the numbers speak for themselves. Nobody here is asking for your opinion on what they should buy for their build. We're all just looking at NV's newest offerings and evaluating them - most of us objectively. By the way, $500-$420 doesn't look like "AT LEAST $100 more" to me...
I know the numbers aren't flattering right now. I know the card is big and hot - it was expected to be. I also know that you are 147% fanboy. Just leave the spin at home. Please. It's all I want.
Also, ATI's driver support sucks floppy donkey balls. I say my reasoning is valid. Have at YOU, sir.
Your reasoning is fine. Your argument needs a lot of refinement. I am merely requesting that you kindly stfu and let the numbers speak for themselves. Nobody here is asking for your opinion on what they should buy for their build. We're all just looking at NV's newest offerings and evaluating them - most of us objectively. By the way, $500-$420 doesn't look like "AT LEAST $100 more" to me...
I know the numbers aren't flattering right now. I know the card is big and hot - it was expected to be. I also know that you are 147% fanboy. Just leave the spin at home. Please. It's all I want.
Also, ATI's driver support sucks floppy donkey balls. I say my reasoning is valid. Have at YOU, sir.
Man... I ran out of popcorn a while back... wanna share Serp?
Seriously, I need to kick back and just watch the other people flame-war more often, it's HILARIOUS.
That said, I have to say I disagree with you Snark. I've had more problems with Nvidia's drivers of late than the ATI drivers. Granted I've only owned an ATI card for about a month now but still. Historically, yes, NVidia has had better drivers than ATI. Seems to me that ATI is fixin' to change that though and seems to be doing a pretty good job of it. Nvidia on the other hand appears to be letting their driver quality slip of late. It's going to be interesting to see what happens with this gen of card. Hopefully NV doesn't screw up fan control in another driver, I don't think a single Fermi would stand a chance of surviving that.
1) Broken color calibration
2) Exploded mouse cursor sizes
3) Prevented Mass Effect 2 from using the correct antialiasing settings
4) Caused painful numbers of gray and salmon screens of death
5) Failed to escalate the fan speed properly
6) Failed to work AT ALL for Sledge's 5970 in Win 7, I believe
Meanwhile, they're happy to keep churning out monthly point updates to the driver package, but every time I update, I wonder what else will break. 10.1 caused the mouse issue. 10.2 fixed it, but caused the color calibration issue. 10.3 hasn't fixed that. The hotfix for 10.2 fixed the ME2 antialiasing problem, but also managed to cause hardware crashes.
I haven't had an NV card in a while, so I didn't experience the fan-killing driver update, but assuming they replace the dead cards if it was actually their fault, that's the only error I've heard of or experienced in the last several years I ran and folded on NV.
The ATI hardware is strong and I love gaming on it (right now, as Cliff would point out), but I am not impressed with Catalyst at all. That's just my truth, but from what I've heard and read around the net, it's not, in fact, just my truth.
In fairness Nvidia released drivers (196.75) that was causing the fan controllers to fail on certain cards. With that card burnt up and failed. Nvidia did replace any card that was affected by the drivers.
But yes each company has had issues with drivers. Lets see how the new Fermi cards run with launch drivers. Probably will still be toasty ovens
Historically, yes, NVidia has had better drivers than ATI.
Let me say, this is a historical perception that is dated due to some major flaws that ATI had in driver support dating all the way back to the 9700 pro. Seriously, since AMD has taken over ATI, the perception that somehow Nvidia's driver development is still superior is hogwash marketing.
I'm not saying there are not issues on both side that need regular improvement, I'm just saying that "historicaly" was around 2003. In the graphics business, that was a lifetime ago. Like Nvidia's last significant product launch! ahahaha!! zing!!!
The only bug in ATIs drivers that I've experienced was the 10.2 driver making NWN crash. NWN, which is a game that was developed for Windows 98. I'm shocked it works at all, even if I had to roll back to the 10.1 drivers.
The Nvidia drivers, before I bought my new card, were ...
Icrontian
edited March 2010
shrugs.
The only bug in ATIs drivers that I've experienced was the 10.2 driver making NWN crash. NWN, which is a game that was developed for Windows 98. I'm shocked it works at all, even if I had to roll back to the 10.1 drivers.
The Nvidia drivers, before I bought my new card, were causing many a game crash (especially in Mass Effect 1, random crash to desktop every hour or so). I was constantly getting the nvidia driver crash notifications from Windows 7 (both the RC and the final version). Don't even get me started on the bugs in their recent Linux drivers. I still can't switch consoles on my laptop because their text-mode driver doesn't kick in. That bug has been around for over a year and they haven't even attempted to fix it from what anyone can tell, despite having released many driver updates since.
But hey... that's just my experience. I'm not trying to say everyone is going to have the same situation. I also don't use the absolute top of the line cards, I tend to be a more cost-conscious customer, thus am only running a HD5770.
The only issue I have with the ATI drivers (that I've noticed - some of the bugs that snark pointed out will be specific to ones uses - ME2, color calibration, 5970, etc) are that they don't accelerate the fan speed enough. I've had TF2 crash a couple times, until I locked fan speed at 40% (which is actually quite loud) to stop the crashes.
Cliff owns a ATI card that has been out for 6 months so ATI was able to get prices lowered make good money and support their product properly. Nvidia is majorly late to the game with DX11 and has a brand new card that is more expensive but only runs slightly faster. (under current drivers) Yes just like ATI these cards are a bit more pricey right now as they just came out (or will be released in the next few weeks). Most people have a tie to one company or the other, either or those Nvidia guys are going to buy Nvidia and ATI guys like cliff will buy ATI. That will not change unless something so bad happens it forces them to look the other way. Being that cliff doesn't even own a new Fermi or hasn't even been in the presence of one says a lot about his character and that he is mainly just stirring the pot up because he is board as hell.
The argument of power is stupid overall as most users buying the cards couldn't give a crap if it uses 10watts or 500000watts... Either or if your power bill is in question 250watts vs 300watts isn't gong to break the bank and if it is going to than maybe you should be buying $250+ GPU's. The goal is that the card runs and plays the games or runs the programs they want well.
Either or Nvidia splashed this launch with a hot and loud card that can run slightly faster than its main competition 5870. lets hope the revisions of Fermi will be better in the long run.
It was the rule of thumb when I was in college that Nvidia was the way to go for 3D acceleration in Linux. Back then, at least, ATI didn't have remotely passable Linux drivers whereas NVidia's were pretty good. Of course Intel has decent Linux drivers but their chips are years behind NV and ATI in 3D acceleration.
Being that cliff doesn't even own a new Fermi or hasn't even been int he presence of one says a lot about his character and that he is mainly just stirring shit up because he is board as hell.
Oh yes, they very much are. Production on the 480 is an absolute mess, and it fell well, well short of every possible target that would allow NVIDIA to say (internally) "we made it!"
Wow. I knew it was bad, but ... just wow. Looks like ATI will be having a few more good quarters. They'll probably have the 6000 series shipping before NVIDIA is even making a profit on Fermi.
From the sounds of it yield issues is what held the launch back. the card is now ramped up and yields are improving. Nvidia is planning to launch the rest of the Fermi line in just 2 months. 50,000 cards for launch isn't a bad number and with Nvidia gunning to surpass ATI int heir 5000 series shipments, that tells me they have good yields now, they just need to get the sales rolling.
With the amount of sold out pre-orders it looks like demand is in place for now. I guess time will tell.
I think I was most interested in the yield numbers/percentages. They look terribly low.
That guy should change the website name from semiaccurate to completebs. I don't know what is his problem with Nvidia but it should be hurting him really bad.
That guy should change the website name from semiaccurate to completebs. I don't know what is his problem with Nvidia but it should be hurting him really bad.
Except, you know, he's right.
0
LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited March 2010
That guy should change the website name from semiaccurate to completebs.
He has been the most accurate media outlet, bar none, concerning the Fermi mess.
This has been a colossal screw-up by Nvidia nearly from the beginning when they attempted, way, way too much on a new process - TSMC 40nm. They refused to make adjustments with their design, unlike ATI, which adapted to TSMC process problems. Nvidia lied and withheld information all the way up to the launch date, even with their most valued partners. Nvidia did not even reveal the bad power draw problems until just two weeks before the so-called release. As it turns out, several reputable reviewers are showing the power usage of the 480 to be worse than Nvidia's claims, which are bad enough already.
Those of you waiting for another "respin" of the current architecture: keep waiting, it probably won't happen. Nvidia is now too far behind to waste more time on the current architecture. Waiting for TSMC to experience a miracle and get good yields from the 530m2 Nvidia monster chip? ha ha ha ha Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. Nvidia really, really stepped on it this time.
I really hope I'm wrong and that TSMC and Nvidia can come up with a miracle.
Now, before anyone dismisses my post as that of an ATI fanboy, please look at my signature.
Comments
I WANT TO READ ACTUAL INFORMATION, not your fanboy babbling. You can guarantee all you want, but I'd rather have something with a little more substance behind it. You've polluted every Fermi thread that exists on Icrontic. I'd like to read something unbiased, that's all.
uh huh, okay, for real this time?? Really, they are going to sell come cards?? Real ones, with actual parts that move data, and play a game for at least an hour or two before they start smoking?
Fermi cards will most likely have the same fail rate as other cards. The Max TDP on the cards is much higher. The actually items that fail on cards is usually the memory not the core. The memory is not what runs hot on Fermi, it is the actual core.
Fermi will ship in quantities higher than 50,000 more than your precious ATI cards at launch.
Nvidia will start shipping the card next week in Europe and int he US on April 12th.
Real info per the initial reviews. At least $100 more for a card that barely outperforms a 5870, and it runs significantly hotter and draws more current, and its fan seems to be really damn loud?
So, your thoughts? What do you see here? I mean, GPU compute is interesting, its the future, and, architecturally Fermi may amount to something when its a more mature product, but for the hard core gamer today, would you straight up recommend a Fermi vs. a comparable Radeon offering?
I would not, and I say my reasoning is valid. Have at you!!!
I know the numbers aren't flattering right now. I know the card is big and hot - it was expected to be. I also know that you are 147% fanboy. Just leave the spin at home. Please. It's all I want.
Also, ATI's driver support sucks floppy donkey balls. I say my reasoning is valid. Have at YOU, sir.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130552&cm_re=evga_gtx_480-_-14-130-552-_-Product
Listed under ETA limit 4 per customer.
This is soooo much fun.
Only 147% fanboy? Hmmmm, I must do better!
Both incited tons of fanboy rage but in the end, were remembered by history as ultimately bad moves.
Seriously, I need to kick back and just watch the other people flame-war more often, it's HILARIOUS.
That said, I have to say I disagree with you Snark. I've had more problems with Nvidia's drivers of late than the ATI drivers. Granted I've only owned an ATI card for about a month now but still. Historically, yes, NVidia has had better drivers than ATI. Seems to me that ATI is fixin' to change that though and seems to be doing a pretty good job of it. Nvidia on the other hand appears to be letting their driver quality slip of late. It's going to be interesting to see what happens with this gen of card. Hopefully NV doesn't screw up fan control in another driver, I don't think a single Fermi would stand a chance of surviving that.
1) Broken color calibration
2) Exploded mouse cursor sizes
3) Prevented Mass Effect 2 from using the correct antialiasing settings
4) Caused painful numbers of gray and salmon screens of death
5) Failed to escalate the fan speed properly
6) Failed to work AT ALL for Sledge's 5970 in Win 7, I believe
Meanwhile, they're happy to keep churning out monthly point updates to the driver package, but every time I update, I wonder what else will break. 10.1 caused the mouse issue. 10.2 fixed it, but caused the color calibration issue. 10.3 hasn't fixed that. The hotfix for 10.2 fixed the ME2 antialiasing problem, but also managed to cause hardware crashes.
I haven't had an NV card in a while, so I didn't experience the fan-killing driver update, but assuming they replace the dead cards if it was actually their fault, that's the only error I've heard of or experienced in the last several years I ran and folded on NV.
The ATI hardware is strong and I love gaming on it (right now, as Cliff would point out), but I am not impressed with Catalyst at all. That's just my truth, but from what I've heard and read around the net, it's not, in fact, just my truth.
But yes each company has had issues with drivers. Lets see how the new Fermi cards run with launch drivers. Probably will still be toasty ovens
Let me say, this is a historical perception that is dated due to some major flaws that ATI had in driver support dating all the way back to the 9700 pro. Seriously, since AMD has taken over ATI, the perception that somehow Nvidia's driver development is still superior is hogwash marketing.
I'm not saying there are not issues on both side that need regular improvement, I'm just saying that "historicaly" was around 2003. In the graphics business, that was a lifetime ago. Like Nvidia's last significant product launch! ahahaha!! zing!!!
The only bug in ATIs drivers that I've experienced was the 10.2 driver making NWN crash. NWN, which is a game that was developed for Windows 98. I'm shocked it works at all, even if I had to roll back to the 10.1 drivers.
The Nvidia drivers, before I bought my new card, were ...
The only bug in ATIs drivers that I've experienced was the 10.2 driver making NWN crash. NWN, which is a game that was developed for Windows 98. I'm shocked it works at all, even if I had to roll back to the 10.1 drivers.
The Nvidia drivers, before I bought my new card, were causing many a game crash (especially in Mass Effect 1, random crash to desktop every hour or so). I was constantly getting the nvidia driver crash notifications from Windows 7 (both the RC and the final version). Don't even get me started on the bugs in their recent Linux drivers. I still can't switch consoles on my laptop because their text-mode driver doesn't kick in. That bug has been around for over a year and they haven't even attempted to fix it from what anyone can tell, despite having released many driver updates since.
But hey... that's just my experience. I'm not trying to say everyone is going to have the same situation. I also don't use the absolute top of the line cards, I tend to be a more cost-conscious customer, thus am only running a HD5770.
The argument of power is stupid overall as most users buying the cards couldn't give a crap if it uses 10watts or 500000watts... Either or if your power bill is in question 250watts vs 300watts isn't gong to break the bank and if it is going to than maybe you should be buying $250+ GPU's. The goal is that the card runs and plays the games or runs the programs they want well.
Either or Nvidia splashed this launch with a hot and loud card that can run slightly faster than its main competition 5870. lets hope the revisions of Fermi will be better in the long run.
Or perhaps I live in the real world, I'm just sayin.....
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/03/29/why-nvidia-hacked-gtx480/
1.7% yield? Wood screws?
troll_mode = 0;
With the amount of sold out pre-orders it looks like demand is in place for now. I guess time will tell.
That guy should change the website name from semiaccurate to completebs. I don't know what is his problem with Nvidia but it should be hurting him really bad.
Except, you know, he's right.
This has been a colossal screw-up by Nvidia nearly from the beginning when they attempted, way, way too much on a new process - TSMC 40nm. They refused to make adjustments with their design, unlike ATI, which adapted to TSMC process problems. Nvidia lied and withheld information all the way up to the launch date, even with their most valued partners. Nvidia did not even reveal the bad power draw problems until just two weeks before the so-called release. As it turns out, several reputable reviewers are showing the power usage of the 480 to be worse than Nvidia's claims, which are bad enough already.
Those of you waiting for another "respin" of the current architecture: keep waiting, it probably won't happen. Nvidia is now too far behind to waste more time on the current architecture. Waiting for TSMC to experience a miracle and get good yields from the 530m2 Nvidia monster chip? ha ha ha ha Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. Nvidia really, really stepped on it this time.
I really hope I'm wrong and that TSMC and Nvidia can come up with a miracle.
Now, before anyone dismisses my post as that of an ATI fanboy, please look at my signature.