Choices.

ZenMode

So it seems like things are winding down, and I won't speculate as to why—but that leaves us, as a group, with a choice to make.

If you have anything to add, please do so—otherwise, simply vote on which choice best suits your interests.

Myrmidon

In for 25, will switch to 10 if we must.

TiberiusLazarus

Voted to continue 25 man's if getting the attendance is not too much of a problem. I understand that recruiting takes a good amount of time and if we can't come up with a good way to handle this then it might be best to drop back to 10 mans.

RyanFodder

^this, seconded

SpencerForHire

The danger of trying to fix attendance issues with recruitment is that to affectively compensate and ensure you are going each week you either have to pug it (which forces our loot system to be roll based) or you have to oversaturate your roster with players... I'm not saying it is or isn't worth the effort, I'm just telling you what the likely options are.

MAGIC

I dont care 10s or 25s. I just want to get the LK down and have a break before the new expansion comes.

Dark_Radeon

I voted for option 3, but after yesterday, I can safely vote for option 1 or 2. It wasn't based on what I wanted of the guild, but what I thought the guild could handle.

SpencerForHire

Generally raiding doesn't stop once you've beaten current content. Not to mention new content is hitting within the next month.

Darthvalthor

"I say dont worry about a thing because every little thing is going to be alright "
Bob marley great man and poet.

ZenMode

Darthvalthor wrote:

"I say dont worry about a thing because every little thing is going to be alright "
Bob marley great man and poet.

If we're going to keep doing 25's - I need someone dedicated to helping bring new people into the guild, any nominations for the job?

Myrmidon

We can all build a little recruit macro and drop it into trade chat here and there, then refer people to you. Howzat sound? Or is there more we can do?

Annes

We should definitely let me be in charge of getting new people. That's a great idea.

SpencerForHire

I've said it before and I'll say it again. A male strip club is not a place to find new recruits.

ZenMode

I'm leaving the decision to you, you all know your own strengths enough to know how well you can make new friends, judge their potential, and put yourself behind them enough to give them a shot.

When we can agree on a person to be responsible, I'll support it.

MAGIC

I am great at criticizing people. I'll do it.

SpencerForHire

It takes more than criticizing though. You have to know the stink when you see it. What is just an abomination of gear choices/gemming. What is blatantly a lack of knowledge in ones class. What kind of attitude is not indicative of a raider? These are all important things that should be watched for when recruiting. On top of that we have to be wary that we don't end up with say 7 paladins. As much as we are trying to field a 25 man, there are some dangers we need to avoid...

I'm not saying you are incapable of these identifications, I'm just saying it is much more complicated than it is being made out to be (aka should not be taken likely).

Dark_Radeon

Just an idea, but if Steve were to compile a list of maximum allowed invites per class/spec and post it on here (updated as required), that might help balance out getting too many of a single class. I'm pretty sure the rest of the stuff we can either fix after recruiting or the recruiters can spot beforehand.

MAGIC

SpencerForHire wrote:

It takes more than criticizing though. You have to know the stink when you see it. What is just an abomination of gear choices/gemming. What is blatantly a lack of knowledge in ones class. What kind of attitude is not indicative of a raider? These are all important things that should be watched for when recruiting. On top of that we have to be wary that we don't end up with say 7 paladins. As much as we are trying to field a 25 man, there are some dangers we need to avoid...

I'm not saying you are incapable of these identifications, I'm just saying it is much more complicated than it is being made out to be (aka should not be taken likely).

Gear, gems, chants, and tactics can be easily aquired or learned. This group came from mostly people who had no exposure to end game junk but does well because most of the lot are interesting people who mesh together well. I'd take a good personality over 5800gs any day.

You can pull someone into vent, have a talk for 5 minutes, and have a better idea of if they will hang around or bail in the first couple weeks than if you look at their armory page.

Hydrar

Perhaps a combination of getting new recruits and running 1-2x ICC10 while we are evaluating/rebuilding might work. I think getting back to ICC25 sooner than later will be key to keeping interest.

Also: I think it might be a good guild-booster if we were to take a prescribed "best group" (in terms of class mix, skill, gear, availability, etc) into ICC10 and clear to LK early in the raid week (Thurs?) and hammer on LK that weekend until we drop him. Might be the pick-me-up the guild needs.

MAGIC

Hydrar wrote:

Perhaps a combination of getting new recruits and running 1-2x ICC10 while we are evaluating/rebuilding might work. I think getting back to ICC25 sooner than later will be key to keeping interest.

Also: I think it might be a good guild-booster if we were to take a prescribed "best group" (in terms of class mix, skill, gear, availability, etc) into ICC10 and clear to LK early in the raid week (Thurs?) and hammer on LK that weekend until we drop him. Might be the pick-me-up the guild needs.

I would be in for a 10 LK kill. I want to see the end cinematic.

SpencerForHire

MAGIC wrote:

Gear, gems, chants, and tactics can be easily aquired or learned. This group came from mostly people who had no exposure to end game junk but does well be cause most of the lot are interesting people who mesh together well. I'd take a good personality over 5800gs any day.

You can pull someone into vent, have a talk for 5 minutes, and have a better idea of if they will hang around or bail in the first couple weeks than if you look at their armory page.

Gearscore has nothing to do with gemming. I'm talking about intelligent decision making on gearing, pretty much the opposite of someone blatantly trying to acquire the highest possible gear score.

Similarly, my concern is those who have no interest to acquire such intelligence or those for whom it does not compute. We lucked out with a very savvy group of people, but for as many of us as there are, there are an equal number of people who couldn't understand how to stay out of a fucking fire if it burned IRL. It doesn't matter how many times you tell them not to... Similarly, Armory can't tell you a lot but wowprogress can, by telling you how often an individual has guild hopped or similar such things. There are a lot of personality types that we have no room in our guild for... All of these things can be checked via a proper interview or character references...

I'm not saying you aren't qualified Magic, I'm saying all these things need to be taken into consideration... Trust me from experience, there are a lot of land mines you can hit when recruiting.

Edit: I spy a Dustin?

fatcat

Hydrar wrote:

Also: I think it might be a good guild-booster if we were to take a prescribed "best group" (in terms of class mix, skill, gear, availability, etc) into ICC10 and clear to LK early in the raid week (Thurs?) and hammer on LK that weekend until we drop him. Might be the pick-me-up the guild needs.

sure, to those 10 players that get the title. the rest of the guild get the "you ain't good enough so sorry no kingslayer for you morale downer"

Don't get me wrong, I want Kingslayer as much as the next, but sitting sideline half the time for guild ICC10 is pretty shitty. and, I couldn't even get 10 guild members last night for our little ICC10.

SpencerForHire

Sitting on the sideline is a consequence of over-saturation for 10 man. Back when we first were at LK we had what 15? Yea it sucked that people sat but they didn't sit for more than 33% of a night. And in reality it was more like ~12% of the night. In the ideal 25 man, we will have 30-33 in the raid at a time which means 5-8 people sitting. That is a fact of life for raiding with any guild that doesn't require one hundred percent attendance always.

fatcat

oh I know, just would love to make it so we had 2x10 man raid and 1x25 raid and tell people to be there.

but people have lives, so whatev

fatcat

back on topic:

I think everyone dedicated to the guild and progressing should be recruiting. We have a two week trial, so we will know if they are fail by then. WE JUST NEED PEOPLE TO SHOW UP!

I have no problems having a couple recruiting officers also. Hell, I don't mind talking with the friends I have on Tortheldrin and poking my head around seeing if I can convince a few more to join the Dark Side.

pragtastic

SpencerForHire wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. A male strip club is not a place to find new recruits.

But then where will we find more candidates like you Spencer?

RyanFodder

fatcat wrote:

sure, to those 10 players that get the title. the rest of the guild get the "you ain't good enough so sorry no kingslayer for you morale downer"

Don't get me wrong, I want Kingslayer as much as the next, but sitting sideline half the time for guild ICC10 is pretty shitty. and, I couldn't even get 10 guild members last night for our little ICC10.

One of the things that really bugged me was getting to raid and realizing that I was going to sit because I wasn't geared well enough...

Now I'm geared high enough, and we aren't raiding

I'd gladly do some ICC10s... but I can't devote multiple nights a week to running raids. Unless some people want to raid earlier (6 CT - 10 CT) then I'm SOL

Fearmyblink

i think that you guys should get a group together and knock out the lich king even if it takes more than the two days we raid. i dont care if im not in the group and it wont hurt my feelings because say one week we dont have the numbers for icc 25 and a icc 10 was put together consisting of one or more peopl who have the title, those others eho dont have it would still be able to take advantage of the heroic modes even if it is just the lootship. I would rather have a heroic Muradin's Spyglass thaan a regular one =D.