I dont think they will change names. If they do it for us then why not everyone? It will be too much of a hassle for them. We are lucky enough to get a Team name change.
Stanford have a very strict policy on name changes. This is to ensure no-one can be accused of any form of cheating. It's totally fair and understood.
I could ask Vijay.. but it's not necessary
0
Straight_ManGeeky, in my own wayNaples, FLIcrontian
edited January 2004
Well, there is a way to do most of this without a heavily formalized contract.... IR Ink PEN label the parts. And use entry-preventive case labels. All repairs get done by a couple trusted team members, and cases sealed afterward. Dates case is opened get written in IR ink on inner side of case side. Then you database the parts you put in before shipping, down to serial numbers and if need be create same. Replacement parts get IR ink serial numbered before shipment.
Either way you have admin stuff, but this procedure set might help as to recovery proofing. That is one way mfrs and OEMs keep folks from doing part switches and claiming bad box with RMAs, and reverse can be true also, you have a harder to eliminate record integral to box and to your contemporaneous records.
--> Primesuspect: The only OTHER way I can think of is to data-center-house the built-from-donations boxes, which eliminates the housing-at-hosts problem. How much would a single-pipe bandwidth host of 768 Mbits with a router like a Cisco 2524 and many older boxes cost per month, Prime??? Turnins do not need to be high bandwidth per box. Essentially cluster the feed bandwidth, common-host the boxes. IF we had non-profit entity established, could we get a cut-rate net hosting price??? Host could tax deduct some things then. And use the fact of donation as an ad image thing.
John: Hosting the boxes in a datacenter would ruin the team spirit of the project. We've discussed this idea before and always thrown it out because of that fact alone. Cost is not the issue, but team effort is.
Also, we don't want this one bad experience to ruin this project. Having OEM style lockdown measures would serve only to say "we don't trust you, but here's a box anyway!" which would discredit all 18 of the good hosts and the host selection committee.
What it all comes down to is '**** happens', you learn from it and move on. Don't let a couple *******s ruin the spirit of the project. As the project continues this most likely won't be the last time you have issues with a host, it's just something that comes with the territory I guess you could say.
It's a very impressive thing that you all have going here, don't let it become cluttered with red tape and restrictions. In all 18 good to one, maybe 2 bad hosts isn't too terribly bad imo.
Did anyone see that MrBill wants to donate a rig? Thats a great step forward and an awesome contribution. Someone give the man the okay so we can have IC10 pump out points.
John: Hosting the boxes in a datacenter would ruin the team spirit of the project. We've discussed this idea before and always thrown it out because of that fact alone. Cost is not the issue, but team effort is.
Also, we don't want this one bad experience to ruin this project. Having OEM style lockdown measures would serve only to say "we don't trust you, but here's a box anyway!" which would discredit all 18 of the good hosts and the host selection committee.
Unless it were done with new boxes only??? Basicly, anyone who maintains a box should keep maint logs anyways. Then you know what is in the boxes, when it was stuck in, etc. Those who have proven by DOING would be exempt due to trust relaibilty proven, and they could help sound out potential hosts also, before hosting.
I would not do a complete nazi thing, but maint records and having skilled techs repair would reduce need to open boxes also. BUT, if boxes are to be team property legally, you need a way to prove what is team owned unless anything put in is defined as rolling into the team property in a hosting agreement.
What I would do is the maint records thing for three reasons:
1. Any questions about what is in boxes is solved by maint records.
2. Contemporaneous maint records can be used as evidence and often are if the case has to be taken to court (and if we do not enforce contract, it is null and void implicitly).
3. A non-profit lets the team concentrate on increased parts dopnations by anyone who can get a tax deduction on hardware donated, adn maint records show wherethe part is in use for folding and folding pointage says it IS folding.
I would also say log parts in box when brought in for maint, or accept from those you trust maint records from them. We could in fact put that maint and status in team area wiuth a status\maint thread stuck per box, or use email to a maint DB admin. Give those who prove trust more "rope" as to what is acceptable, make initial hosting provisional for 6 months to a year.
In many ways, wanted ideas from you all as to how far how fast you wanted to go. Thing is boxes ARE team property, reasonable evidenital records should be made and contemporaneous records of maint are proofs of actuality. Reasonable folks who are willing to accept a contract would accept record needs also, methinks.
If box gets stolen while hosted, which is what we are implicitly seeing here, is host liable??? If not, we need to beable to ID stolen parts, thus the IR markings. A reasonable host is protected this way, team parts are ID'd. Unreasonable hosts, we do not want.
To claim non-profit, you need to be able to prove non-profit activity, and we have that part with pointage by team box ID, now we need to be able to prove "this box is doing THAT non-profit activity."
These are supposed to be dedicated folding rigs, right??? And need to be recoverable??? The folding hosts who have been honorable can have proof they host relaibly and provably, and those who might not will shy away from such a set of things-- and those that shy away from a limited supply thing in this case are those we do not want as hosts in most cases. We have HOW many members??? We have HOW many SMx boxes??? Reliably hosting is HOW MUCH of partly a pride thing-- justifiably so??? What I am suggesting works both ways.... Folding hosts should earn very HIGH trust, IMHO, in part by DOING. Give the reliable ones the fastest boxes, and slower ones to newer hosts unless they have folded for along time with this team(like Icrontic and then here as Team S-M) as a simple prereq.
You guys do what you want, I will guage what and how much I give by certainty it is used for charity. If I can deduct half of FMV(net) of donated parts from income tax, would donate more. Period. And I think others would also.
My thought... Make every part be shipped to the SMx Parts manager (Mr Kwitko) and have him mark all serial numbers and mark them with a perment marker with a part number and SMx Property. I know, Perment marker can be easily removed with solvent but if we require that the markings be applied and even a digital picture of the item... then the team knows that the parts were verified before being shipped. Then send a parts list with the SMx Rig and require a signiture. Now we have parts list directly matched with a persons signiture.
In the end, we can spout the part numbers to hosts that claim stupidity... I really don't think that small claims court would be worth it but we would at least have some fairly conclusive evidence. I figure a list of parts on a sheet of paper that is signed by the Host would go fairly far in a small claims court.
I dont think they will change names. If they do it for us then why not everyone? It will be too much of a hassle for them. We are lucky enough to get a Team name change.
I live near Cleveland ....Let's open up a can of Woopass
I also know lots of Cops around here.
Let me know If I can be of assistance.
Scott
0
BuiesCreek847In a van, down by the river, NCIcrontian
Did anyone see that MrBill wants to donate a rig? Thats a great step forward and an awesome contribution. Someone give the man the okay so we can have IC10 pump out points.
I'm undeleting shenlong's last post, to show you all what his attitude towards everybody who ever contributed to this project is. He created a new team, called Team ******, and is now folding for team ****** with the name icrontic10.
He is using a processor that was stolen from hotrodsun.
That is shenlong. Mr. Peter Daher. Enjoy his post.
And this is the same boy that washed out out military boot camp, right? No wonder...no honour. Just a foolish little boy who keeps coming back here to get the last word in because he has no power in the real world, who wants to steal computer parts from a good team effort because he has no respect for appreciation for the ideals of teamwork and community.
What a sorry little loser :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow (Yes, I'm talking to you little loser troll reading this thread as a "guest." L-O-S-E-R.)
I can't believe the effort that meepins is going through to post here. He's registered 4 times in the last 5 minutes.. That's a lot of clicking and typing!
Tell you what, Jeff... Post your stuff on your own sites, at hostz0r.com, meepins.net, phoid.com, whatever, and we'll all go visit your site to see the brilliance that you have to offer us..
Maybe it's just me, but I thought the point of folding was to further science and possibly find cures for diseases. In which case it really wouldn't matter what team ic10 is folding for, as long as it is folding. Unless of course this is some kind of giant internet pissing contest, which i suspect is what it is has become.
L0ki's third post to short-media! Thanks for your input!
It doesn't matter which team he folds for, that's not the point. THe point is he stole a processor from hotrodsun. THat's all this is.. It's theft. He can do whatever the hell he wants with his hardware. But he's using a computer with a stolen processor. Don't get all righteous. Go back to your IRC channel.
Maybe it's just me, but I thought the point of folding was to further science and possibly find cures for diseases. In which case it really wouldn't matter what team ic10 is folding for, as long as it is folding. Unless of course this is some kind of giant internet pissing contest, which i suspect is what it is has become.
Ohhh, a voice of reason...
Now go look up the meaning of "team", "donated items", "agreement", and "hosting." Come back and report any flashes of brilliance this research brings you.
Ahh post counts, the other big internet pissing contest, and I'm not arguing that theft is wrong. I was just confused about your indignation over him resuming folding under a different name. It seems to me this thread is a complete waste of time and should probably have been locked by now, but hey what do I know. I'm clearly some troll who hangs out in an irc channel and am of no consequence to anyone.
Now go look up the meaning of "team", "donated items", "agreement", and "hosting." Come back and report any flashes of brilliance this research brings you.
Dexter...
I'm sorry if you didn't understand that I was only referring to prime's comment on shenlong resuming folding, not the entire subject as a whole. Also, your hostility is most appreciated.
The thread has gotten well off track. Thanks to the team for your support.
And to address what Buies and Gargoyle mentioned earlier, we certainly have not missed MrBill's post! We'll be following up on it in the next 24 hours.
Comments
I dont think they will change names. If they do it for us then why not everyone? It will be too much of a hassle for them. We are lucky enough to get a Team name change.
I could ask Vijay.. but it's not necessary
Either way you have admin stuff, but this procedure set might help as to recovery proofing. That is one way mfrs and OEMs keep folks from doing part switches and claiming bad box with RMAs, and reverse can be true also, you have a harder to eliminate record integral to box and to your contemporaneous records.
--> Primesuspect: The only OTHER way I can think of is to data-center-house the built-from-donations boxes, which eliminates the housing-at-hosts problem. How much would a single-pipe bandwidth host of 768 Mbits with a router like a Cisco 2524 and many older boxes cost per month, Prime??? Turnins do not need to be high bandwidth per box. Essentially cluster the feed bandwidth, common-host the boxes. IF we had non-profit entity established, could we get a cut-rate net hosting price??? Host could tax deduct some things then. And use the fact of donation as an ad image thing.
John.
Also, we don't want this one bad experience to ruin this project. Having OEM style lockdown measures would serve only to say "we don't trust you, but here's a box anyway!" which would discredit all 18 of the good hosts and the host selection committee.
It's a very impressive thing that you all have going here, don't let it become cluttered with red tape and restrictions. In all 18 good to one, maybe 2 bad hosts isn't too terribly bad imo.
-Aranyic
If that isn't team spirit, I don't know what is.
Unless it were done with new boxes only??? Basicly, anyone who maintains a box should keep maint logs anyways. Then you know what is in the boxes, when it was stuck in, etc. Those who have proven by DOING would be exempt due to trust relaibilty proven, and they could help sound out potential hosts also, before hosting.
I would not do a complete nazi thing, but maint records and having skilled techs repair would reduce need to open boxes also. BUT, if boxes are to be team property legally, you need a way to prove what is team owned unless anything put in is defined as rolling into the team property in a hosting agreement.
What I would do is the maint records thing for three reasons:
1. Any questions about what is in boxes is solved by maint records.
2. Contemporaneous maint records can be used as evidence and often are if the case has to be taken to court (and if we do not enforce contract, it is null and void implicitly).
3. A non-profit lets the team concentrate on increased parts dopnations by anyone who can get a tax deduction on hardware donated, adn maint records show wherethe part is in use for folding and folding pointage says it IS folding.
I would also say log parts in box when brought in for maint, or accept from those you trust maint records from them. We could in fact put that maint and status in team area wiuth a status\maint thread stuck per box, or use email to a maint DB admin. Give those who prove trust more "rope" as to what is acceptable, make initial hosting provisional for 6 months to a year.
In many ways, wanted ideas from you all as to how far how fast you wanted to go. Thing is boxes ARE team property, reasonable evidenital records should be made and contemporaneous records of maint are proofs of actuality. Reasonable folks who are willing to accept a contract would accept record needs also, methinks.
If box gets stolen while hosted, which is what we are implicitly seeing here, is host liable??? If not, we need to beable to ID stolen parts, thus the IR markings. A reasonable host is protected this way, team parts are ID'd. Unreasonable hosts, we do not want.
To claim non-profit, you need to be able to prove non-profit activity, and we have that part with pointage by team box ID, now we need to be able to prove "this box is doing THAT non-profit activity."
These are supposed to be dedicated folding rigs, right??? And need to be recoverable??? The folding hosts who have been honorable can have proof they host relaibly and provably, and those who might not will shy away from such a set of things-- and those that shy away from a limited supply thing in this case are those we do not want as hosts in most cases. We have HOW many members??? We have HOW many SMx boxes??? Reliably hosting is HOW MUCH of partly a pride thing-- justifiably so??? What I am suggesting works both ways.... Folding hosts should earn very HIGH trust, IMHO, in part by DOING. Give the reliable ones the fastest boxes, and slower ones to newer hosts unless they have folded for along time with this team(like Icrontic and then here as Team S-M) as a simple prereq.
You guys do what you want, I will guage what and how much I give by certainty it is used for charity. If I can deduct half of FMV(net) of donated parts from income tax, would donate more. Period. And I think others would also.
John.
In the end, we can spout the part numbers to hosts that claim stupidity... I really don't think that small claims court would be worth it but we would at least have some fairly conclusive evidence. I figure a list of parts on a sheet of paper that is signed by the Host would go fairly far in a small claims court.
Q
I live near Cleveland ....Let's open up a can of Woopass
I also know lots of Cops around here.
Let me know If I can be of assistance.
Scott
He is using a processor that was stolen from hotrodsun.
That is shenlong. Mr. Peter Daher. Enjoy his post.
What a sorry little loser :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow (Yes, I'm talking to you little loser troll reading this thread as a "guest." L-O-S-E-R.)
Dexter...
Tell you what, Jeff... Post your stuff on your own sites, at hostz0r.com, meepins.net, phoid.com, whatever, and we'll all go visit your site to see the brilliance that you have to offer us..
lolskis!
It doesn't matter which team he folds for, that's not the point. THe point is he stole a processor from hotrodsun. THat's all this is.. It's theft. He can do whatever the hell he wants with his hardware. But he's using a computer with a stolen processor. Don't get all righteous. Go back to your IRC channel.
I wonder what Tex thinks of this.
Ohhh, a voice of reason...
Now go look up the meaning of "team", "donated items", "agreement", and "hosting." Come back and report any flashes of brilliance this research brings you.
Dexter...
Thanks for emphasizing the point we were making when we demanded our team's hardware back.
I'm sorry if you didn't understand that I was only referring to prime's comment on shenlong resuming folding, not the entire subject as a whole. Also, your hostility is most appreciated.
At last, a useful comment
The thread has gotten well off track. Thanks to the team for your support.
And to address what Buies and Gargoyle mentioned earlier, we certainly have not missed MrBill's post! We'll be following up on it in the next 24 hours.
Thanks! :bigggrin: