Prime, would it be inappropriate if I said your kinda turnin me on right now?
Your going into the Lion's Den! Your going to be a gladiator for gamers! I love it. Seriously, I can't control my man crush.
More than anything, realize, their position is going to be to essentially try and make you look bad. This is a huge opportunity, not just for Icrontic, but for you personally. Your going to have the honor to sit before people and show them how to construct an intelligent and thoughtful argument without compromising your values. They figure, they will just get Brian on, make him look like some dweeb that lives in his Mom's basement and does nothing all day but press buttons and wiggle sticks. Your going to be able to educate some people, its a great opportunity. I'm really pleased your getting to do this. You deserve it.
It's important to frame the discussion in context too. It's not like the government is paying EA or Valve to make more Call of Duty games. To qualify for a NEA grant, you've gotta be an indy, 501(c)3 groups. That's a VERY VERY small minority.
Yeah, your probably right. Either way, he will likely try to frame it to get the audience to think their tax dollars are going to fund the next Grand Theft Auto game, and thats just not the case.
That was the point I made with one of the show's staff today: I am almost positive I'm going to hear something along the lines of "We don't want our money going to Grand Theft Auto Call of Duty Mortal Kombat".
If that's the case, I plan on making the point that they're talking about commercial games, not NEA-grant games, and that the NEA also hasn't funded the latest M. Night Shlyaman disaster or the newest Bruce Willis action flick.
Supporting the American gaming industry with taxpayer dollars is a direct investment in $7 billion industry[1], with consumers that spend more than $24 billion annually.[2] This revenue employs thousands of people during a time when real Americans desperately need jobs.
This is not an argument about whether or not games are "art," because that is a pointless exercise in subjectivity. This is an argument about whether or not we should support job creation for Americans, bolstering America's competitiveness in very challenging industry, and helping America remain the home of innovation.
(Changing the nature of the argument and putting them into an indefensible position ("what, you don't want Americans to have jobs?") is the quickest way to win and to escape the BS "OMG GTA IS RAPE" arguments).
First. Congratulations! That's one hell of a forum.
Second. I didn't know the NEA gave grants to video game companies..
Ask Neal Asbury what games he has played. If he names any violent ones (COD, TF2, MOH, BF, GTA etc) ask him if playing these games has made him more violent. If he hasn't played these games, ask him how he would be qualified to judge the effect of these games if he hasn't played them.
Regarding the tax question, calculate yourself, or find the statistic, how much money video games has pulled in for the US in 2010, calculate the taxes. Then calculate roughly how much $ in NEA grants had been given that year, and then minus that from the taxes. If you are negative, ignore this line of questioning and move on. If you have a positive number then tell them the grants are an investment that pays off handsomely.
Oh, and figure out what games or game companies that produce games in the US have been given NEA grants. Be prepared to refute any violent game that comes up if the producing company hasn't taken a NEA grant.
Some others have discussed economic benefits of computer games. You might also mention the vast amounts of money spent on R&D by companies such as AMD and Intel and ATI to develop hardware designed to cater to gamers.
Changing the nature of the argument and putting them into an indefensible position is the quickest way to win and to escape the BS "OMG GTA IS RAPE" arguments.
PROTIP: If you do this and follow up "what, you don't want Americans to have jobs?" with "Why do you hate America?" you will ascend to Godhood.
The U.S. computer and video game software publishing industry directly employs more than 32,000 people in 34 states.
In 2009, these employees received total compensation of $2.9 billion.
The total U.S. employment, both direct and indirect that depends on game software now exceeds 120,000.
For the four-year period 2005 through 2009, direct employment in the U.S. computer and video game software publishing industry grew at an annual rate of 8.65%.
The U.S. computer and video game software industry’s value added to U.S. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) was $4.9 billion.
The real annual growth rate of the U.S. computer and video game software industry was 10.6% for the period 2005-2009 and 16.7% for the period 2005-2008.
During the same periods, real growth for the U.S. economy as a whole was 1.4% for 2005-09 and 2.8% for 2005-08.
In 2009, the average annual compensation per employee (wages, salaries and employer contributions for pensions, insurance and government social insurance) was $89,781.
I got the following figures from this 2010 report. Video Games in the 21st Century - by Stephen Siwek
Basil and Thrax make a good suggestion about throwing, "Why do you hate america?" at them. But liberal progressives have been using it against conservatives for years.. You might want to change up a bit. How about, "Why are you against American jobs and economic growth?!"
Using the statistics DogSoldier mentions about how the growth of employment in the video game industry far outstrips the growth in the economy as a whole is a great idea.
Here are my quick stats for gaming and voting demographics just to throw it out there.
41% of registered voters in 2008 are between the ages of 18-44 (54,881,000 people)
Average game player is 34 years old
25% under 18 years
49% 18-49 years
26% 50+ years
The average age of the most frequent game purchaser is 40
Adult gamers have been playing computer or video games for an average number of 12 years
If the conversation wanders into religious territory, here are a few Christian video games you can mention:
Adam's Venture
The Axys Adventures: Truth Seeker Battle Against the Lies
Bible Adventures
Bible Builder
Break-Out The Bible
Captain Bible in Dome of Darkness
Computer Bible Games
Dance Praise
Dance Praise 2: The ReMix
Exodus: Journey to the Promised Land
King of Kings
Left Behind: Eternal Forces (with sequels Left Behind: Tribulation Forces and Left Behind 3: Rise of the Antichrist)
Music Machine
Noah's Ark (computer game)
Noah's Ark (NES game)
Original Dance Praise
Pop & Rock Hits
Spiritual Warfare
Sunday Funday
Super Noah's Ark 3D
The Bible Game
Besides all the excellent points already made, you could also try to throw in the fact that this essentially translates into innovations and better gaming technology, which helps produce more useful things like better, more realistic and more interactive military training simulators. The military is pretty much the only thing that right wing, free market advocates think tax-payer money should be spent on.
colapart legend, part devil... all manBalls deepIcrontian
edited May 2011
You would be my new gladiator movie hero if you managed to pull a "why do you hate America" on them. If you do, I will make a movie themed from your conquest.
Also, please don't assume that this guy is an assbag and they're just looking for a straw man. He may not be a total dick. Please go in there and be personable and awesome. Nobody likes talking heads, so don't stoop to BS stuff. It's easy to get a big dick and start waving it around in a pissing contest but the public deserves better than that.
To be fair, he is a bright guy. Question is if he believes in the NEA period. Its a valid stance, but it would be worth clarification. Are you against the NEA, or just game specific NEA funding?
If, as these gentlemen suggest, your adversary brings up our tax dollars funding game development, you can hit him directly back by mentioning how it's really not fundamentally different than how our tax dollars fund entrepreneurship through startup grants. It will show that his area of expertise is funded by tax dollars just as yours is.
Comments
Your going into the Lion's Den! Your going to be a gladiator for gamers! I love it. Seriously, I can't control my man crush.
More than anything, realize, their position is going to be to essentially try and make you look bad. This is a huge opportunity, not just for Icrontic, but for you personally. Your going to have the honor to sit before people and show them how to construct an intelligent and thoughtful argument without compromising your values. They figure, they will just get Brian on, make him look like some dweeb that lives in his Mom's basement and does nothing all day but press buttons and wiggle sticks. Your going to be able to educate some people, its a great opportunity. I'm really pleased your getting to do this. You deserve it.
http://www.fastcompany.com/1753652/its-official-games-are-art
Its not that he "thinks" that way, he knows what is really going on, but he is going to pander to the DERP DERP crowd.
If that's the case, I plan on making the point that they're talking about commercial games, not NEA-grant games, and that the NEA also hasn't funded the latest M. Night Shlyaman disaster or the newest Bruce Willis action flick.
This is not an argument about whether or not games are "art," because that is a pointless exercise in subjectivity. This is an argument about whether or not we should support job creation for Americans, bolstering America's competitiveness in very challenging industry, and helping America remain the home of innovation.
[1] http://www.talkxbox.com/news/7493/video-game-industry-worth-7-billion/
[2] http://www.industrygamers.com/news/us-game-markets-total-consumer-spend-almost-25-billion-says-newzoo/
(Changing the nature of the argument and putting them into an indefensible position ("what, you don't want Americans to have jobs?") is the quickest way to win and to escape the BS "OMG GTA IS RAPE" arguments).
Second. I didn't know the NEA gave grants to video game companies..
Ask Neal Asbury what games he has played. If he names any violent ones (COD, TF2, MOH, BF, GTA etc) ask him if playing these games has made him more violent. If he hasn't played these games, ask him how he would be qualified to judge the effect of these games if he hasn't played them.
Regarding the tax question, calculate yourself, or find the statistic, how much money video games has pulled in for the US in 2010, calculate the taxes. Then calculate roughly how much $ in NEA grants had been given that year, and then minus that from the taxes. If you are negative, ignore this line of questioning and move on. If you have a positive number then tell them the grants are an investment that pays off handsomely.
Oh, and figure out what games or game companies that produce games in the US have been given NEA grants. Be prepared to refute any violent game that comes up if the producing company hasn't taken a NEA grant.
Some others have discussed economic benefits of computer games. You might also mention the vast amounts of money spent on R&D by companies such as AMD and Intel and ATI to develop hardware designed to cater to gamers.
PROTIP: If you do this and follow up "what, you don't want Americans to have jobs?" with "Why do you hate America?" you will ascend to Godhood.
It's absolutely hilarious to use their insane rhetoric to make your own point.
I got the following figures from this 2010 report. Video Games in the 21st Century - by Stephen Siwek
http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/VideoGames21stCentury_2010.pdf
Basil and Thrax make a good suggestion about throwing, "Why do you hate america?" at them. But liberal progressives have been using it against conservatives for years.. You might want to change up a bit. How about, "Why are you against American jobs and economic growth?!"
41% of registered voters in 2008 are between the ages of 18-44 (54,881,000 people)
Average game player is 34 years old
25% under 18 years
49% 18-49 years
26% 50+ years
The average age of the most frequent game purchaser is 40
Adult gamers have been playing computer or video games for an average number of 12 years
My point is that gamers are also voters.
Ref1, Ref2
Adam's Venture
The Axys Adventures: Truth Seeker Battle Against the Lies
Bible Adventures
Bible Builder
Break-Out The Bible
Captain Bible in Dome of Darkness
Computer Bible Games
Dance Praise
Dance Praise 2: The ReMix
Exodus: Journey to the Promised Land
King of Kings
Left Behind: Eternal Forces (with sequels Left Behind: Tribulation Forces and Left Behind 3: Rise of the Antichrist)
Music Machine
Noah's Ark (computer game)
Noah's Ark (NES game)
Original Dance Praise
Pop & Rock Hits
Spiritual Warfare
Sunday Funday
Super Noah's Ark 3D
The Bible Game
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_video_game
http://youtu.be/RvPHL-Sbb48
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VZ2HcRl4wSk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Then steal his car and run him over with it.