• PreacherPreacher Potomac, MD Icrontian
    We don't eat horse, because it's a pretty cow that we can ride. While horse meat tastes good, it ain't as delectable as swine. I hear though that eating horse imbues one with super running powers...
  • LazarusXeroLazarusXero Illinois Icrontian
    _k_ said:

    Some of you might have heard me run my mouth about running and how I like to run kind of. If you heard that then you might have also listened to me say some crap about ultramarathons.

    I ran the Nueces 50 mile ultra on Saturday, finishing in 11 hours 28 minutes and 50 seconds. I have never run anything over a marathon distance until this point, ran my first marathon in December of 2012. Almost all of my training has been on pavement or packed grass so I am far from a anything looking like a trail runner, but it is done. Album, Race Photos

    Big Congratulations!!! A 50 Miler is no joke... I've only done the two 50k's and a few marathons but have yet to even toy with that mileage... to think of adding almost 20 more miles on to my longest race would just be absurd... You rock!!
  • CantiCanti =/= smalltime Icrontian
    Okay, question. I'm not in the best shape for long distance running anymore since it's early Spring and sadly I don't go running at all during Winter because FUCK THE COLD. But I remember back in high school I was running 5-6 miles every morning and once that became normal I felt like no matter how many more miles I added it didn't get any more difficult physically. It was just more of the same thing I was accustomed to.So, just out of curiosity, is there really a big difference (other than time) between running something like 20 miles and running 50 miles?
  • LazarusXeroLazarusXero Illinois Icrontian
    In my experience, once I trained for it, 20 miles was fairly effortless... but in each race longer than that, it became a battle against exhaustion and fatigue (and boredom)... Basically, your body has a limited amount of energy it can store in its muscles (I'll leave @Thrax to give us the technical explanation) but once that energy is exhausted, then you're pretty much done for... so ultra runners are fighting a battle of refueling their body WHILE they are burning that energy... the longer the race, the more you have to plan to consume during the race... I will typically ingest about 600-900 calories during a marathon, but will burn about 3100 calories... during a 50 miler though, you could easily burn upwords of 6000 calories during the run... Then there is always the dehydration factor, the health of the feet, the constant danger of rolling ankles (for those running trails)... etc...

    I've heard that for most people, 20 miles is the "wall"... anything beyond that takes a lot more willpower and training to complete...
  • _k_k P-Town, Texas Icrontian
    There are people who train for ultra distances by only running 5-6 miles at a time but usually the thing they don't talk about is their years of running resulting in thousands of miles in a decade. There are exceptions or people like Yiannis Kouros(the worlds best ultra runner at 100+ miles on the road). But running more than 3 miles every single day for a year can do a lot for endurance and experience in how your body responds.

    @Canti running double your 6 miles and still feeling good is a great sign but I would try doing a 17+ mile day before attempting a marathon because that is the range where people start to waver in regards to physical stamina and "pushing through". This has a lot to do with how your body stores and burns energy. The first 20-40 minutes you start burning through your sugar reserves and is the reason that if you go to the gym to lose weight or build muscle you need to spend time doing cardio first to burn out this junk energy that is designed to be used for a short period of time. During this period of time your body responds to the trauma by pushing water into areas taking abuse to help support them. Then once the one hour mark is reached, roughly, your brain starts releasing chemicals to numb the pain from the blunt force trauma to your body and keep you moving; simply because this is a point where you body decides this pain is not going to be stopping immediately. Going from 1 hour to 2 hours of running is usually fairly easy, just a simple matter of training up and making a choice to run farther. The 20 mile "wall" is a basic way of talking about depletion of glycogen stores in the liver and muscles and the break that happens when your body switches from burning glycogen to fat stores, which normally takes 20-30 minutes. You lose energy and everything feels harder, you can train for this and make the impact less. This effect is also why people drink sports drinks and eat gel solutions now during races. When your runs get into the 20s joint pain also can become an issue very easily and this is where the experience comes into play regarding knowing how your body behaves under real distances and what you need to do in regards to identifying it and responding.

    Going from 26 to 50k in races is not considered to be hard, you can use the same training plan with one extra week at the peak before a taper. Going from 50k to 50 miles is different and requires either a higher mileage long run for several weeks or runs that are at least an hour longer, a guess at your first 50 mile time is take your PR fro the marathon, double it, and add 2 hours. Most training schemes for a 50 involve doing your marathon training then spending 6 to 8 weeks doing the ultra training. In ultra running you also spend time walking to get a small break during the 10 hour run or because you are climbing a steep hill. The course I ran had flat sections I walked because there were so many loose rocks, the environment plays a huge role on your pace. I burned roughly 4,700 calories in 11.5 hours, at a 13:47 average pace per mile(I spent some time sitting around looking at the country side).

    Marathon distances are very reachable for the majority of the population if you learn to simply run, it isn't always fun and you are going to be hurting but that is a huge part of running. As a result if you think there is the personal grit there after you reach 26 miles 31 miles is very reachable. Ultras are growing in size because people are finding out how easy they can be to finish, and because they are getting to be more organized as the sport expands and money is showing up places. A lot of ultras are run on trails which is extremely varied in regards to track or pavement, your feet don't hurt as much. Generally the atmosphere is characterized as warmer and more inviting because of the smaller groups, they like to party. You can find road races that are the same, not attempting to sway you. If you think you can you most likely can with some time. Get out there and run, that is how everyone started.
  • _k_k P-Town, Texas Icrontian
    edited July 2014

    Necro. I am laid up on running for an unknown amount of of time.

    Ended up going through spouts of bronchitis, which I have never had before, and vertigo which would take me down for 3 downs. Then when I was finally getting some time in for training while not sick I had a serious issue develop. My left foot swelled up around the nerve in my foot and makes it so after about 2 miles my left foot starts to go numb, this even happens while fast hiking. Going from being low on miles for the year to unable to run and having to stop at 850 miles on my ytd and DNS on the Rocky Raccoon is heart breaking for me. I still can't run, only doing .9 miles at a time and that several times a week increases the pain quickly.

    Going through my second round of anti inflammatory. Seems like my only course of action forward is start doing therapy to try and deal with the swelling and stimulate the nerve so it can nerve stuff better. But now I feel less crazy about spending a year looking at my feet thinking they are slowly staying swollen all the time.

    Alas this puts me clipped into carbon and a bicycle saddle stuck up my crotch because I can ride and it doesn't increase the pain levels to an unmanageable amount. Guess its time to start working on doing centuries and crits.

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