The Windows 8 Thread
Straight_Man
Geeky, in my own wayNaples, FL Icrontian
http://www.pcworld.com/article/239131/microsoft_windows_8_heres_what_we_know_so_far.html#tk.nl_wbx_h_crawl1
PCWorld has started off with this web article.
PCWorld has started off with this web article.
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I'm assuming Win8 is pretty much for tablets? Is there anything "new" for PC's (or is Win8 the OS that kills the PC?)
Truth be told, I think the Start Screen fucking sucks, but I realize that the $500 PC buyers will probably eat it up in time. I can only imagine the support nightmare this will cause, though.
That said, for normal PC users it offers (much) faster boot times, real SSD optimization, better file copies, a smaller memory footprint, a more modular core (yay performance), etc. A lot is still being left unsaid.
SSD optimization - nice, but SSD's are still more expensive than HD6970's (legit size SSD's, like ones big enough to replace mechanical drives)
Better Files copies - I assuming you mean transfers over network? or a new file system?
Smaller memory footprint - RAM is cheap, meh
Modular core - more explanation needed...
I hope they drop 32bit. I mean, are there any 32bit CPU's anymore?
Also, how are they handling backwards compatibility. I don't want to spend an hour trying to get Diablo 2 to play like on Windows7 if I feel in the mood to suddenly fire it up
Just generally assume that Windows 8 will be faster than Windows 7 for gamers. That's probably the biggest takeaway for IC members.
As for 32 vs. 64, who knows. Backwards compatibility will be equal to, or better than, Windows 7, because they're implementing enterprise-level virtualization software right into the OS.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/home/
Not in the slightest. Any CPU produced by Intel and AMD in the last, oh 3-5 years already have the necessary hardware to make it work. Intel VT-x and AMD-V cover the hardware virtualization requirements, and most PCs have enough RAM to get a simple VM up and running to run apps in true compatibility mode. From a hardware perspective, it is actually less taxing than Windows XP mode was.
I know what I'm going to do tomorrow at work!
AV in core (baked-in):
Microsoft plans to release Windows 8 later this year. The newest release
of the operating system will reportedly have elements of Microsoft
Security Essentials (MSE) protection built in to Windows Defender. MSE
is currently available at no cost as a download to help protect users
from malware. Windows Defender has already been incorporated into recent
versions of Windows, but lacked the muscle offered by Microsoft Security
Essentials.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-20106681-83/windows-8-to-offer-built-in-malware-protection/?tag=mncol;title
http://www.scmagazineus.com/microsoft-windows-8-will-ship-with-built-in-anti-virus/article/212025/
The above is from the SANS Newsbytes enewsletter for this week. SANS is at http://sans.org .
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/21654
THe link above leads to a TR blog about Windows 8, given an analysis of the Platform Preview.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2392886,00.asp
The above link is PCMAg's take on the Win8 Platform Preview.
Rumour-- the Metro browser will take no add-ons and is incompatible with Flash-- this is true as of the Platform Preview, might change by Release To Manufacturing time.
Here is more analysis for the thread. To say that hardware virtualization is required for true full virtualization is correct. However, with the correllary use of much more RAM, Microsoft can do software-based virtualization emulation without needing heavy and more modern hardware support. With broader hardware compatibility thus gained (and some backward compatibility on the software side of things), they can sell more copies of Windows 8.
The increased profits (with broader compatibility as to hardware and software-- both backward and foreward) will allow them to perhaps rehire well over 1500 + developers they laid off due to low sales(due to and during the recession) . This will allow them to write less buggy code (due to more double-checking and alpha-testing), and write new stable release versions of Windows and Microsoft Server faster.
This is especially for developer-grade people, about Win8.
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/95739-windows-8-hands-on-slideshow
Some of ExtremeTech's take, from BUILD conference. ExtremeTech folks cover the latest stuff frequently-- Extremetech is a ZiffDavis site (ZiffDavis used to own ZDnet). The links are from ExtremeTech enews releases.
PC Mag's take summary about Win8 and a slideshow of what they consider are the eight most needed to know about features seen so far. Also, Microsoft gave away Samsung Platform Preview PCs to attendees, and PCMag attendees got one and were kind enough to give a link to some info about it.
This is a link to a pcmag.com article that gives some meat info about the AV that will be baked into Windows 8, including summaries from what other current venders think.
Apparently, as a part of the secure boot process that Microsoft is requiring for the Windows 8 Logo specifications, all firmware and software that is included in the boot process must be signed, which apparently has some potential implications for dual boot configurations, in particular, those which use Linux.
In this case set Linux's kernel would have to either call something that decoded the signature and could recognize hardware by that plain-text result by having a table to recognize from or if done in kernel the kernel would become what many Linux users would call bloated. Linux developer's are likely to code the kernel to ignore the signatures rather than shut down if the kernel thinks it is being attacked.
Further, it is likely that new BIOSs that handle hardware signature checking properly will need to be written, which might obsolete the poorer enthusiast's older or newer but cheaper hardware. As far as Microsoft is concerned, this is a good long-run move , because they can issue signatures only to high-quality hardware that is WHQL approved or only give signatures to hardware from manufacturing partners. Over the short term either hardware obsolesence making strategy would be wrong-- drastically so for MS profits, but the major OEMs will love it because they will get to provide lLOTS less tech support for malfunctioning hardware or software-hardware issues.
WHQL labs is way behind on testing due to too small facilities and too few experienced testers-- one or the only lab is now in China, closer to Korea and Taiwan(compared to how far the US or western Europe would be) so that hardware can be shipped to them faster and cheaper (manufacturers like this). So, Microsoft does not know a lot about
a lot of the newest hardware. By Microsoft restricting what hardware it will support they get to simplify a lot of code requirements, meaning fewer system and software engineers needed to fix and debug software(less bloat, less complexity) and OS things.
If Microsoft's software publishing partners object majorly to the signature thing and/or the hyperviisor requirements, things may change as far as how-far-how-fast Microsoft goes with Win 8, many things may yet change-- down to how soon true public betas and the release to public of Windows 8 happen.
UEFI is really cool, because it can provide a colorful, mouse-driven interface for the BIOS. You can even add sounds, rudimentary animated graphics, and fully context-driven help menus. It's very neat!
But, yes, Microsoft is looking to get OEM PCs using signed UEFI images, which look for a bootloader from the OS signed with the same key.
It may not be all that big a deal, though, for a couple reasons:
1) I believe it requires a Trusted Platform Module (TPM) chip, which few motherboards have.
2) OEM users really don't run Linux.
3) It's only for UEFI 2.3.1, where older versions of UEFI don't have this, and the BIOS doesn't have it at all. Mobo makers could use the BIOS or an older UEFI spec.
4) No motherboard maker is going to buy into this if they were sane.
So, it's pretty much an OEM play to make off-the-shelf desktop systems more secure. Nothing beyond authorized Windows components could run at boot any more, which would stop rootkits dead in their tracks.
It's interesting, but probably a bit overblown.
Now that Linux has desktops available with it, users who still have legacy OEM hardware(poor also usually) made to be compliant with Windows in firmware or in drivers or in some of each are tired of Windows because new versions with hyped-up new features have changed code support requirements in software and hardware.
A user who gets an old OEM box(too young to have money enough for the latest stuff or even anything not given to him/her in some cases) will try to fix himself in crude ways compared to what an enthusiast or analyst with experience would try (some users will stay users and as adults go to shops with people who fix things because they do not know enough about system interrelations and things that interrelate inside but not plainly visible to fix without losing their stuff) and hold onto thier computer hardware as long as possible. Young folks are more and more exposed to electronics and the internet in school, at friend's houses, etc. They want something that their friends have-- and get jealous and irritable when they can't have it, so parents will cave in eventually. Computers especially.
So a young user gets one, frequently an old one to start because their parents are spending money to get a new one to do stuff quicker on or do more complex stuff (like editing the photos they get off their new camera because they look weird in email or when printed at home or when posted on websites-- mere example). If the parents stay users and never have been curious enough to explore under the hood, the kid will learn from friends, neighbors, the school IT person (computer lab supervisor maybe) or even by hanging around a computer store, etc. Linux, properly set up, and bundled will now auto-install more and more. Basic info is on the internet and Linux users with old hardware rightfully love it.
Linux was first written for old stuff, and still will send 32-bit words if you let it totally default install because it is written for servers that had 32-bit word tuned buses and that code has been kept for things like schools and universities still grinding away. He/she wants for free as much as he/she can get-- and Linux users and enthusiasts have spread the word widely that Linux is freely available legally, more secure by a huge amount than Windows, and that Linux is more likely to work on more old hardware than new Windows.
Mandriva has a free version as DVD and CD ISO images (and has a how-to-burn in its Website KB(they recommend Nero for burning from Windows, a tuned and debugged auto-installer which installs KDE desktop by default, and they try a lot to make installation easier. They have also kept support for RPM by default. People can run RPM and it will want to search for the dependencies on other software packages in most Linux installs and install them and if the distro people have an RPM package archive and the box is online will search that archive automatically for deps not installed and not on media-- the RPM packages have in header what other packages are needed down to version and subversion in listing.
I wonder if any server manufacturers would be on board with this, since they tend to be much more OS-agnostic, and it would be extra stupid to have to fork their hardware just to accommodate Windows vs. Everyone else.