A few questions about classes

Tushon

Having never played any of the Elder Scrolls titles, I have some questions about mechanics/skills.

The Thief:
So, the smithing tree will allow for creation of very nice armor (I want to say I ready that Glass is actually the best because of base being better than dragon but I don't recall and can't check at work), but that seems a little counter-intuitive to invest in for a stealth role. I currently am spending most skill ups in the stealth trees (stealth, lockpicking, pickpocket, speech, the dual wielding section of One Hand Weapon, etc), but am curious what others think about investing in Smithing. I'm not asking in the sense of min-maxing or RP, just if it makes sense to spend points in that as a thief, or if the various thief quest lines (i.e. Dark Brotherhood or Thieve's guild) will yield "close enough" armor. The end of the Dark Brotherhood stuff looked pretty nice.

In the same vein, enchanting as a thief could yield nice benefits, but seems like it distracts from the main stealth skills a lot, so I am loathe to invest in it.

How much "should" I be thinking about magicka as a thief? I haven't invested any skill points into spellcasting and have only bumped up the level once so far (i.e. I have spells I cannot cast without a fortify magicka potion), but am not sure that is how I would "want" to play it anyways. I am loving sneaking up behind people and oneshotting them or sneak arrowing for the same effect on lower level mobs. (so many words that are wrong according to google)

Pure Mage:
Leveling up one-handed skill for those times when you run out of magicka or can't escape makes sense, but I don't recall seeing any decent path for investing skills points in one-handed (I guess that is where the "battle mage" role lies?). I'm sure I had more questions about mage, but I've been playing my sneaky character for the last week or so.

I imagine I'll have more questions when I go through as a meatier warrior, but I'm already envisioning 2H wielding Orc berserking all over the battlefield. Thanks for any input!

CB

It's difficult to be 'pure' anything other than fighter. A character with only stealth skills never does any damage, and a character with only magic skills is bound to run out of mana at a critical point. (you could get companions to help with this, but I've never been a fan of the way companions work in Elderscrolls/Fallout).

The strongest builds mix it up at least a little. For a simpler play through, just mix a bit of sneaking or magiking into your Fighter. Fitting a bit of fighting into your Theif or Mage is a bit more complex to run, but a stealth mage, is the most complex, since there are very few complimentary skills or perks (destruction magic doesn't deal critical or sneak damage, for example).

However, what it comes down to in the end is what you have fun with. The nice thing about the advancement system is that it will advance whatever you're doing, rather than what you think you should be doing, so if you have fun playing a certain way, that's what your character will be good at.

The system is intended to be able to function without a plan or ideal build in mind.

primesuspect

I think the math players are gonna come in and shut down your assertion:

CB wrote:

The system is intended to be able to function without a plan or ideal build in mind.

There are definitely min/max builds that make combat easier, etc.

That said, the nice thing about Elder Scrolls is that in the end, it doesn't matter; I think that's what CB is trying to say. You can just put one point in random skills all over the place and still win the game. The way the potion system works, no matter what situation you're in, you can pause combat and do totally unrealistic things like drink eight potions and eat two entire wheels of cheese. Stop time, indeed. At that point, nothing matters, really; you can just stock up on potions and call it a day. You're immortal, unless you're one-shotted.

That said, I've been jumping into skills and perks without an 'end game' plan; I just level up whatever I happen to be using the most at that time. I'm having fun, and I figure my character will naturally "fall into a role" based on my play style.

This is the only game ever that I've been able to level up in just by selling tons of shit at the general store

CB

primesuspect wrote:

I think that's what CB is trying to say.

yup.

Snarkasm

I'm with you - stealthy, but interested in getting swank armors and stuff. Smithing is more important for being able to upgrade your weapons and armor than it is for crafting new stuff, though. You can always go the "craft 200 iron daggers" route to smithing mastery if you wanted, though. I'd do it in small doses, and when you decide that you want to do something you can't.

But yeah, my character has almost all of his points in stealth and archery, the two things I use the most. I use perks most on stealth, then on archery, then on smithing. Haven't really perked anything else, even though there are some sweet ones in light armor or destruction magic, etc. There just aren't enough points to go around. Focus on what makes your trip more fun/easier/more helpful.

(By the way, I think the only thing with higher start stats than dragon is Daedric, even though you can craft Daedric at level 90 vs dragon at level 100. Difference is prevalence of dragon materials vs prevalence of ebony.)

Tushon

I appreciate the advice/info. I was kinda doing what you have both said: just putting points into stuff I am using and not necessarily worrying too much about what "should" be played. I've definitely had to pull the 8 potions, plus ale + random food in a few fights (triple saber cat attack as part of a mission, some boss fight where I thought melee fighting a boss with a drain enchant was a good idea, and trying to fight guards when it was part of a mission to go to jail), and while that is wholly unrealistic, the game would be vastly more annoying if the pause menu wasn't a real pause menu.

@Snark: yeah, I was trying to look over the wiki, but it seems like a terrible layout for comparison. Maybe someone will come up with a system like wowhead (I think ... it has been months since I played WoW) where you can specify light armor, pick several pieces, compare stats), but I suppose there really aren't that many to compare, so maybe it wouldn't be worth the effort.

Snarkasm

Yeah. Ultimately, I think the top tier goes roughly in order of what it takes to get them - Daedric, dragon, glass, elven, dwarven, I think. Still waiting to smith glass armor. Takes malachite though. Gotta work on that.

Creepin' 'round a mage dungeon. Do do do...

I-need-a-better-name

I think you easily have enough perk points to put some into a utility skill. Thieves are supposed to go into alchemy but if you don't you'll have the points for smithing. For quicker skill increases, sleep, get married and/or choose the lover stone. You can role play as a smith by day and thieving killer by night.

fatcat

sleeping effects your level up speed?

I haven't slept yet

I-need-a-better-name

Can't remember the percentage but there are three levels of bonus: rested, well rested (sleeping in a bed you own), and "you just got laid" (sleeping in your bed with your spouse in the house.

fatcat

I need a better name wrote:

Can't remember the percentage but there are three levels of bonus: rested, well rested (sleeping in a bed you own), and "you just got laid" (sleeping in your bed with your spouse in the house.

must investigate the "you just got laid" bonus...

in Skyrim of course

Snarkasm

Yeah, I think you get 12% skill bonuses for sleeping in your own bed with your wife. Plus, if you pick her right, she goes into trade and gives you free 100 gold every day, too. (Ysolda, anyone?)

fatcat

Snarkasm wrote:

Yeah, I think you get 12% skill bonuses for sleeping in your own bed with your wife. Plus, if you pick her right, she goes into trade and gives you free 100 gold every day, too. (Ysolda, anyone?)

Damnit, now I need to start a new character so I don't have to buy a house and Ysolda can just be my sugar momma

Snarkasm

Ironically, I'm not getting married until I save up 25k so I can just buy the one good house in Solitude and call it a day.

I am going to have SO MUCH FUCKING CARRYING CAPACITY once I unload all these damn armors and dragon pieces and weapons random fucking ingredients I have to carry around all this damn time.

I-need-a-better-name

There's a quest where your stuff is taken from you and left in a chest except for what you can't live without. I forgot to get the stuff until much later and was immediately wealthy. I also learned what I could live without.

Snarkasm

This game is bananas. I'm 46 hours in, and I don't even know if I've done that already or if it's still coming. There is so much content here. Jesus.

MrTRiot

Playing a pure mage you'll eventually run out of mana and once you do you have two options...

1) Run and hide and hope you have kickass mana regen or the high elf racial ability that speeds it up (preferably a combination of the two)

or...

2) Use mana potions.


I tend to use a bit of both. More on potions and less on the racial ability because I usually have an ice shout selected instead...


Pure mages without a stockpile of potions will die very quickly...

I-need-a-better-name

Mr TRiot wrote:

Pure mages without a stockpile of potions will die very quickly...

Thanks for this. I thought my mage who just finished the main quest was an alcoholic.

Frenchie

I need a better name wrote:

There's a quest where your stuff is taken from you and left in a chest except for what you can't live without. I forgot to get the stuff until much later and was immediately wealthy. I also learned what I could live without.

I did the same thing, except I didn't take my lockpicks with me. So every time I tried to get into a chest, or through a random door I would remember that I needed to go pick my stuff up. But then get distracted 20 seconds later. I finally went back and got my stuff and I had about 20000 more gold.

Snarkasm wrote:

Yeah, I think you get 12% skill bonuses for sleeping in your own bed with your wife. (Ysolda, anyone?)

This is true.... unless you're a warewolf.

Tushon

A comment on the smithing stuff (i suppose this could be considered a spoiler) for thief

Combination of shrouded and nightingale armor (both from the same series of dark brotherhood quests) are nearly/as good as crafted stuff and come with sick bonuses that would be equally unattainable without investing deeply in Enchanting, so that prevents the thief from needing to waste points in Smithing ... going to start looking for a stat reset mod I guess

Snark, about the quest where you're stuff is taken from you (not a real spoiler, just informing you of where it is)

Line is part of Markarth quest lines, you begin by investigating the Forsworn that is killed in the city

Snarkasm

Ah, I haven't made it there yet. Finishing the Winterhold stuff, then heading there. Also heading there to find my wife.

primesuspect

I married the first random chick that asked. I don't even remember her name, but she opened a store in Riften and starting making cash for me. Sugar momma for the win!

Tushon

I married Carmela, the chick that Sven and F-something are fighting over in Riverwood. I screwed one guy by telling her he wrote a false letter and then told the other guy (so thankful) and then stole her away. Trololol.