Xp 3200 or Athlon 64? (for games)

edited November 2005 in Hardware
Ok, heres the situation. A friend of mine is buying my system today for cost because he needs one fast and doesn't want to wait for mail order. That system is:

Xp 2500 barton
biostar M7NCD pro
2x 512 mb pc2700

Since i'm getting back almost all i put into it a few months ago i thought i'd take the opportunity to upgrade a bit. Originally i thought i'd just go to an xp 3200 and pc3200 ram but now i'm wondering if i should go up to an athlon 64. Is there a big difference for a gamer or is the 64 sort of just a newer, buggier technology that can't even be utilized yet? I've been reading up on it on the board and a few reviews but i still feel like a complete newb about the 64 and can't figure out if its worth it. And why don't they make a socket 754 mb that uses dual channel ram? Doesn't that alone make the xp's more bang for the buck at this point?

So far a lot of what i've read about the 64 on the boards has been about specifics and i was wondering if anyone could give me a quick overview of the difference in performance from the higher xp's. Thanks.
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Comments

  • EyesOnlyEyesOnly Sweden New
    edited February 2004
    I'm assuming you've read this thread. If not do that. I'll let others handle the tech talk since i'm very good at it.
    And why don't they make a socket 754 mb that uses dual channel ram?
    The cpu doesn't handle dual channel so the boards can't do it either.
  • TemplarTemplar You first.
    edited February 2004
    The memory controllers are now stored on the chip itself. Dual channel is no longer the job of the FSB. In turn, this improves performance because the data is flowing directly from the RAM to the CPU.
  • GnomeWizarddGnomeWizardd Member 4 Life Akron, PA Icrontian
    edited February 2004
    I will say that I am running a 64bit system and there is NO WAY IN HELL i am going back!
  • edited February 2004
    EyesOnly, i did read that thread but a lot of that stuff is greek to me. I don't know anything about voltages and memory timings except that i like to set my motherboard to turbo mode with my biostar M7NCD pro. I've also never really gotten into raising the FSB as a form of overclocking because i once took my 2500 barton to 3000 speeds via the FSB and it actually ran slightly slower than it did by just raising the mulitplier to 2800 speeds. So obviously i don't know what i'm doing in that department but i suppose it could be because i have cheap ram. Or would the quality/speed of the ram just affect stability and not performance?

    Actually on that note, can anyone direct me to a good guide on all that voltage and memory timing stuff and general FSB overclocking for dummies?
  • GnomeWizarddGnomeWizardd Member 4 Life Akron, PA Icrontian
    edited February 2004
    The athlon 64 platform is FAST in every aspect compared to the XP platform. I had a 3000+xp OC'ed to 2.4 and I sold that and went to a 3000+ socket 754 athlon 64 aAT STOCK its soooooooo much faster it isnt funny. All my FPS in all my First person shooter games went up by atleast 75 to 150 FPS every program loads faster
    install times are faster boot up times are faster EVERYTHING is faster! yes the socket 754 has been known to be buggy but it is not buggy if you get the MSI board or the abit board. I know my asus sucked balls and Shortys Biostar i think it was blew too.
  • edited February 2004
    That Enverex/Shorty thread scared the crap out of me so i might just use your exact setup, Gnome. (except i think i'll get the 3200)
  • DogSoldierDogSoldier The heart of radical Amish country..
    edited February 2004
    Hows this sytem look to you 64 users? Performance and price wise..

    AMD Athlon64 3200+ Processor, Retail $398.00
    MSI K8T Neo-FIS2R S754 Mainboard w/Audio/SATA/RAID/FW/GBLan $249.00
    Corsair TWIN-X 512-3200LL (2x256MB) Dual Channel DDR Kit $215.00
    Lite-On 52x CD-ROM Drive, OEM Black $23.00
    Panasonic 3.5" Floppy Drive, Black $15.00
    Asus Radeon 9200SE 64MB Video Card w/TV-OUT, Retail $70.00
    Antec PerformanceII SX1040II Full Tower Case w/400Watt PS, Black $131.00
    Total: $1101.00 CDN

    edit// That's about $822.62 US
  • TemplarTemplar You first.
    edited February 2004
    DogSoldier wrote:
    Hows this sytem look to you 64 users? Performance and price wise..

    AMD Athlon64 3200+ Processor, Retail $398.00
    MSI K8T Neo-FIS2R S754 Mainboard w/Audio/SATA/RAID/FW/GBLan $249.00
    Corsair TWIN-X 512-3200LL (2x256MB) Dual Channel DDR Kit $215.00
    Lite-On 52x CD-ROM Drive, OEM Black $23.00
    Panasonic 3.5" Floppy Drive, Black $15.00
    Asus Radeon 9200SE 64MB Video Card w/TV-OUT, Retail $70.00
    Antec PerformanceII SX1040II Full Tower Case w/400Watt PS, Black $131.00
    Total: $1101.00 CDN

    You should at least through a 9800 Pro in there. Only $275.00 USD now.
  • DogSoldierDogSoldier The heart of radical Amish country..
    edited February 2004
    Templar wrote:
    You should at least through a 9800 Pro in there. Only $275.00 USD now.

    I'd be taking out the Western Digital WD400JB and the 9800 pro from this sytem and putting it into the new one. This machine would become my dedicated folder. I'm also looking at a P4 3.4/Abit IC7-Max3 configuration for about $100 more, I go that route, I can also swap out my Ocz DDR500 Gold.
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited February 2004
    DogSoldier wrote:
    Hows this sytem look to you 64 users? Performance and price wise..

    AMD Athlon64 3200+ Processor, Retail $398.00
    MSI K8T Neo-FIS2R S754 Mainboard w/Audio/SATA/RAID/FW/GBLan $249.00
    Corsair TWIN-X 512-3200LL (2x256MB) Dual Channel DDR Kit $215.00
    Lite-On 52x CD-ROM Drive, OEM Black $23.00
    Panasonic 3.5" Floppy Drive, Black $15.00
    Asus Radeon 9200SE 64MB Video Card w/TV-OUT, Retail $70.00
    Antec PerformanceII SX1040II Full Tower Case w/400Watt PS, Black $131.00
    Total: $1101.00 CDN

    edit// That's about $822.62 US

    ECS 755 $89 USD (No GBlan or FW, faster stock speeds, supposedly pretty stable)

    Albatron K8X800 ProII $123 USD (GBLan, no FW, 24PT envy sound, seen only good reviews so far)

    Why 2 sticks of ram? It doesn't support dual channel. (ok maybe for possible use in other boards/upgrades?)


    IDK just a couple suggestions.
  • MadballMadball Fort Benton, MT
    edited February 2004
    newegg has that cpu for $282 and the Radeon 9800pro for $224 and that mobo for $130.
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited February 2004
    Madball wrote:
    newegg has that cpu for $282 and the Radeon 9800pro for $224 and that mobo for $130.

    Hes a Canuk eh?
  • GnomeWizarddGnomeWizardd Member 4 Life Akron, PA Icrontian
    edited February 2004
    I started reading everything dogsoldier put up and thought damn he is getting ripped a new one! but then i relized it was Canadian dollars which are worth about as much as our toilet paper whatever you do DO NOT and i repeat DO NOT buy an asus!


    MSI or abit. I know Shorty and I both have the MSI and are loving it!

    Nope thats registered ram thats a no no! only if you went opteron then yes thats what you want BUT your going athlon 64 so that bad! THIS is the ram you want http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-450&catalog=147&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=1
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited February 2004
    Nope thats registered ram thats a no no! only if you went opteron then yes thats what you want BUT your going athlon 64 so that bad! THIS is the ram you want http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-450&catalog=147&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=1


    I don't think the ram he posted is registered. Otherwise it would say registered, no?

    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-431&catalog=147&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=1

    TwinX 512 3200LL
  • Al_CapownAl_Capown Indiana
    edited February 2004
    Error Checking: Non-ECC
    Registered/Unbuffered: Unbuffered
  • GnomeWizarddGnomeWizardd Member 4 Life Akron, PA Icrontian
    edited February 2004
    D00d croc you need some glasses!


    this is the link caxus posted

    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-476&catalog=147&depa=1

    Corsair XMS Extreme Memory Speed Platinum Series, Low Latency (Twin Pack) 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) ECC Registered DDR PC-3200 - Retail


    ECC Registered M8!
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited February 2004
    croc_ wrote:
    ECS 755 $89 USD (No GBlan or FW, faster stock speeds, supposedly pretty stable)

    Albatron K8X800 ProII $123 USD (GBLan, no FW, 24PT envy sound, seen only good reviews so far)

    Why 2 sticks of ram? It doesn't support dual channel. (ok maybe for possible use in other boards/upgrades?)


    IDK just a couple suggestions.

    I take that ECS board back. You want the 755-A2, not 755-A. The first revision is bad, the second is very good.
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited February 2004
    D00d croc you need some glasses!


    Corsair XMS Extreme Memory Speed Platinum Series, Low Latency (Twin Pack) 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) ECC Registered DDR PC-3200 - Retail


    ECC Registered M8!


    Read his post again.
  • GnomeWizarddGnomeWizardd Member 4 Life Akron, PA Icrontian
    edited February 2004
    croc_ wrote:
    Read his post again.


    How bout YOU read his post again and actually click on the link and open your eyes! :wow2:
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited February 2004
    DogSoldier wrote:
    Hows this sytem look to you 64 users? Performance and price wise..

    AMD Athlon64 3200+ Processor, Retail $398.00
    MSI K8T Neo-FIS2R S754 Mainboard w/Audio/SATA/RAID/FW/GBLan $249.00
    Corsair TWIN-X 512-3200LL (2x256MB) Dual Channel DDR Kit $215.00
    Lite-On 52x CD-ROM Drive, OEM Black $23.00
    Panasonic 3.5" Floppy Drive, Black $15.00
    Asus Radeon 9200SE 64MB Video Card w/TV-OUT, Retail $70.00
    Antec PerformanceII SX1040II Full Tower Case w/400Watt PS, Black $131.00
    Total: $1101.00 CDN

    edit// That's about $822.62 US

    his post = Corsair TWIN-X 512-3200LL (2x256MB) Dual Channel DDR Kit $215.00

    my link = http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-431&catalog=147&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=1

    edit// now I see you are talking about CAXUS, and I was referring to Dogsoldier. Your post confused me because you referred to Dogsoldier first.
  • GnomeWizarddGnomeWizardd Member 4 Life Akron, PA Icrontian
    edited February 2004
    Caxus asked me a question I answered Thats why they were in Diff paragraphs
  • DogSoldierDogSoldier The heart of radical Amish country..
    edited February 2004
    Actually, for the price of one of the systems I mentioned previously.. I could get 2 of these:

    Intel P4 2.4 GHz-800 FSB
    Biostar P4VTB ( PT800, FSB800,8XAGP, 6-CH Audio, LAN, DDR400, USB 2.0)
    256 Meg DDR PC3200
    WD 40 GB JB Hard drive 7200 RPM
    MSI GForce4 MX440-T8X w/ 64M DDR
    LG 52x CD-Rom
    P4-ATX case w/front USB / 350W p.s
    AOopen PS2 Keyboard
    PS2 Scroll Mouse
    TS-128 w/ 280W Hi-Fi Speaker
    $570 Cdn or $427 US

    edit// Keep in mind these systems will be for folding only.
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited February 2004
    DogSoldier wrote:
    Actually, for the price of one of the systems I mentioned previously.. I could get 2 of these:

    Intel P4 2.4 GHz-800 FSB
    Biostar P4VTB ( PT800, FSB800,8XAGP, 6-CH Audio, LAN, DDR400, USB 2.0)
    256 Meg DDR PC3200
    WD 40 GB JB Hard drive 7200 RPM
    MSI GForce4 MX440-T8X w/ 64M DDR
    LG 52x CD-Rom
    P4-ATX case w/front USB / 350W p.s
    AOopen PS2 Keyboard
    PS2 Scroll Mouse
    TS-128 w/ 280W Hi-Fi Speaker
    $570 Cdn or $427 US

    edit// Keep in mind these systems will be for folding only.

    Will that board O/C??? Might wanna spend a few extra bucks on one that will (assuming that one doesn't very well) and O/C those 2.4's to maybe 3.0?
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited February 2004
    I agree with croc_. If that board doesn't O/C, then if you can pick up one that does it would probably be worth a few extra dollars to have a board that would allow 3GHz and higher. I think it was Leo that said a 3.5GHz P4 folds 2 WUs in the same time it takes a 2.5GHz AthlonXP to fold 1. Impressive folders those p4s can be when clocked high and HT enabled.
  • DogSoldierDogSoldier The heart of radical Amish country..
    edited February 2004
    I wasn't really thinking about overclocking them. I have a 2.4 on an Asus P4PE @ 533fsb at work (Not OC'd) and it's racked up 192 WU's, compare that to the 211 WUs this one has and you can see there isnt much between them. This Biostar board (I googled it, no reviews) has the same chipset as the P4PE but you can also run an HT proc at 800fsb. I think it's a great deal, The only downside is no Dual channel.
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited February 2004
    Not overclocking a 2.4C is a sin, right?
  • croc_croc_ New
    edited February 2004
    a2jfreak wrote:
    Not overclocking a 2.4C is a sin, right?

    In all major religions .... you might find a few stock 2.4c's in the jungles of africa, where the savages live.
  • DogSoldierDogSoldier The heart of radical Amish country..
    edited February 2004
    Yeah well, it's a 2.4G, and it isn't mine to fry. The thing already runs at 57 celsius and thats because the case has no fans, aside from the PSU. If I do get these Biostar systems, (Mind you, it's not a done deal) I'll be sure to OC them both.. I looked at the Biostar BIOS manual and it certainly has some options..whichever OCs the best, I'll replace my current CPU with it.. :)
  • ketoketo Occupied. Or is it preoccupied? Icrontian
    edited February 2004
    DogSoldier wrote:
    This Biostar board (I googled it, no reviews) has the same chipset as the P4PE but you can also run an HT proc at 800fsb. I think it's a great deal, The only downside is no Dual channel.

    Actually, the P4PE is Intel 845 chipset and this Biostar is a VIA PT800 chipset.

    Looking at the product page, I don't see where it explicitly says it has HT, tho it definitely supports 800fsb processors. Probably does but if I were you, I'd confirm before ordering.
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