Let's talk vermouth & its classic uses

Linc

I was just writing this to @midga and realized we should just have a talk about it! I recently went thru 3 dry vermouths to work on my dry martini (50/50 gin & vermouth, 2 dashes orange bitters).

Martini & Rossi was the overwhemling favorite (over Stock and Noilly Prat). My current recipe is to mix Marti & Rossi with Stock 50/50 (maybe a little more of the former) because while the M&R is better, it's also smoother and (I think) a little boring over the course of the cocktail. Stock adds some teeth to it to make you think about what you're drinking. It was widely preferred over the straight M&R martini.

I will confess the bottle of dry Stock I was using is quite old (like, damn). A fresh bottle would likely change the equation.

Noilly Prat is definitely not for martinis as far as I'm concerned, dry or sweet.

In my Manhattan, I'm still using Stock after trying NP and M&R variants (all sweet). Haven't attempted a perfect Manhattan yet (50/50 sweet & dry vermouth).

I haven't gotten far enough with (sweet) martinis to know which way I'm headed there, but I feel like Stock has the lead.

mertesn

I'm not sure which mix you used at ICSP for that first round, but it was pretty amazing.

Also that was my first martini...ever. Won't be the last.

Linc

mertesn said:

I'm not sure which mix you used at ICSP for that first round, but it was pretty amazing.

Thanks. That was the 50/50 M&R and Stock (dry).

AlexDeGruven

Manhattan = best use of vermouth.

midga

Well, I replied before looking at this thread. Oops.

Anyway, I wasn't sure which M&R to go for, so I grabbed the Rosso because it has a cooler name. I also snagged another vermouth sometime last week I think, but then maybe I didn't and forgot. I don't know. I'll look when I get home and actually unpack from driving all over the state. The only orange bitters I could find, though, were blood orange, and seem to be kinda sweet (my cousin had some and let me try a bit). I did pick up some Botanist gin, but I ended up donating it to a party. I did make a pretty delicious G&T with it and some Fever Tree Bitter Lemon, though, so at least I know it's tasty.

Will post when I've tried things with stuff.

oni_dels

I'm a vodka martini kinda man. 2oz PUR vodka (from quebec, thought sometimes i take Belvedere) 1/2 oz martini white vermouth, add jalapeno stuffed olives, shake, stir, then olives on pick.

midga

Apparently the other I picked up is Dolin dry.

Linc

midga said:

Apparently the other I picked up is Dolin dry.

The one I couldn't find! Drat.

midga

Don't worry, I'll completely botch some stuff and let you know how bad it is.

Actually, you could probably get it delivered, unless Michigan is lame.

BobbyDigi

midga said:

Apparently the other I picked up is Dolin dry.

Tushon

martinipls.jpg

midga

So, about the garnish... when I'm making a drink for myself and I'm the only person physically present, what reasons are there to bother? (Besides practice, and just being classy.) Will a lemon twist make enough flavour difference that I shouldn't make them without? Does it make so much difference that I shouldn't make them until I can properly twist lemon? Partially I ask because I want to first attempt tonight, but I really don't want to go to the store...

Linc

The lemon twist is a subtle garnish. It does make a difference, but it's not going to make it crazy difference. It's definitely an upgrade.

I haven't done olives. My understanding is the brine definitely effects the drink, and not in a good way. They've gained popularity only more recently. Also, screw olives.

midga

Lincoln said:

The lemon twist is a subtle garnish. It does make a difference, but it's not going to make it crazy difference. It's definitely an upgrade.

Awesome. Then when I finally get home tonight (Fuck New Mexico. Srsly.) I will try my hand at delicious. Only after delicious will I upgrade my classy.

midga

M&R Rosso + Hendrick's + splash of blood orange bitters + a single drop of lime juice (added after first taste, not sure if any difference) = kinda tasty, rather sweet. I went sweet since none of the gin I have has "dry" in the name, and because the Rosso bottle is smaller and easier to find. I dunno what this is /supposed/ to taste like, but I'm certainly enjoying it, so idgaf

poofie

My vermouth of choice for manhattans is Dolin sweet. M&R is too syrupy sweet for me. I've wanted to branch out but I have a hard time justifying spending over $20 on vermouth when I'm not drinking it by itself.

PS - Refrigerate your vermouth. It doesn't quite have a high enough alcohol content to keep well at room temperatures after it's opened.

midga

@poofie How long do you usually find it lasts in the fridge?

ardichoke

2pt Bulleit Rye + 1pt M&R Rosso Vermouth + dash of Angostura Bitters. Pour over crushed ice, stir, strain into a glass with fresh ice cubes. Add one maraschino cherry (and a splash if the juice if you like). I know the cherry as opposed to the twist is blasphemy but IDGAF, it's the best damn Manhattan I've ever made.

poofie

@migda Honestly I go through it in a month or so. I heard once that vermouth and mascara have a similar timeline, so up to three months, although I have certainly drank 6+ month old vermouth in a cocktail and not been grossed out.

My perfect manhattan is 3 parts Woodford Reserve, 1 part Dolin sweet, two dashes angostura, poured over 4 large ice cubes and one maraschino cherry in a rocks glass. Stir with a spoon a couple turns.

I bought dark morello cherries from Trader Joe's to try and fancy up my cherry choice. They're not as sweet so I add maybe a teaspoon of the juice it's in. It turned my tongue dark purple. I like them very much but my heart belongs to the shitty maraschino cherries.

oni_dels

ardichoke said:

I know the cherry as opposed to the twist is blasphemy but IDGAF, it's the best damn Manhattan I've ever made.

if you put red vermouth as opposed to white, you are supposed to put a cherry; not a lemon twist. it is then called a Sweet Manhattan

Linc

ardichoke said:

2pt Bulleit Rye + 1pt M&R Rosso Vermouth + dash of Angostura Bitters.

I use 2oz Bulleit Rye + 1/2oz Stock sweet vermouth + dash of bitter, no fruit. I like it nice and strong.

Linc

oni_dels said:

if you put red vermouth as opposed to white, you are supposed to put a cherry; not a lemon twist. it is then called a Sweet Manhattan

My understanding is a standard Manhattan is always made with sweet vermouth, a Perfect Manhattan is 50/50 sweet & dry, and a Dry Manhattan is only dry vermouth. "Sweet Manhattan" would be redundant. The fruit is your preference; doesn't give it a new name.

AlexDeGruven

Woodford Reserve specifies on their site:

2 oz Woodford Reserve ®
1 oz Sweet Vermouth
2 dashes Angostura® bitters
Garnish with an orange twist

Shaken with ice and strained into coctail/martini glass. No ice.

And now I'm thirsty.

oni_dels

Lincoln said:

oni_dels said:

if you put red vermouth as opposed to white, you are supposed to put a cherry; not a lemon twist. it is then called a Sweet Manhattan

My understanding is a standard Manhattan is always made with sweet vermouth, a Perfect Manhattan is 50/50 sweet & dry, and a Dry Manhattan is only dry vermouth. "Sweet Manhattan" would be redundant. The fruit is your preference; doesn't give it a new name.

well, just saying from what i've learn in hotel bartending. the method for making martini / rob roy / manhattan is always the same, dry is with white, sweet is with red and perfect is half half like you said. pretty much only the martini has the extra-dry, and the only thing varying inbetween them is:
martini = gin or vodka
rob roy = scotch whisky
manhattan = canadian whisky (rye)

since very few people take sweet martini as opposed to dry ones, people are more use to say a martini and a sweet martini;
it goes the other way around for manhattan. People usually expect a sweet one when ordering since it's more popular. so they order it by saying only "manhattan".

ardichoke

Lincoln said:

oni_dels said:

if you put red vermouth as opposed to white, you are supposed to put a cherry; not a lemon twist. it is then called a Sweet Manhattan

My understanding is a standard Manhattan is always made with sweet vermouth, a Perfect Manhattan is 50/50 sweet & dry, and a Dry Manhattan is only dry vermouth. "Sweet Manhattan" would be redundant. The fruit is your preference; doesn't give it a new name.

All of my reading on the topic agrees with you.

poofie

I feel like if I'm going to use orange in a Manhattan I may as well make an old fashioned instead.

Also, I believe I read that rye is the traditional whiskey used in Manhattans, but rye is a bit sharp for my taste and I love bourbon.

Linc

poofie said:

I believe I read that rye is the traditional whiskey used in Manhattans, but rye is a bit sharp for my taste and I love bourbon.

Have you tried Bulleit's Rye? I love bourbon more than most, but I still favor rye in my Manhattan.

ardichoke

Lincoln said:

poofie said:

I believe I read that rye is the traditional whiskey used in Manhattans, but rye is a bit sharp for my taste and I love bourbon.

Have you tried Bulleit's Rye? I love bourbon more than most, but I still favor rye in my Manhattan.

Bulleit is so very, very good. There are precisely two whiskeys that I've tried which I can honestly say I flat out enjoy. Jameson and Bulleit Rye.

Myrmidon

AlexDeGruven said:

Woodford Reserve specifies on their site:

2 oz Woodford Reserve ®
1 oz Sweet Vermouth
2 dashes Angostura® bitters
Garnish with an orange twist

Shaken with ice and strained into coctail/martini glass. No ice.

And now I'm thirsty.

Not to be pretentious, but from what I've learned, the Manhattan is one drink that should never be shaken - you want that shit to look as clear and perfect as possible. STIR that with ice and strain it.

Linc

Myrmidon said:

STIR that with ice and strain it.

True; I didn't catch that. Tho I just add a cube or two and leave them.

Sours (margaritas, daiquiris, sidecars) get shaken. The citrus muddies them up anyway.

poofie

I've tried bulleit rye, along with rittenhouse, pikesville and maybe a couple others. I like rye, i just love bourbon, and while I occasionally enjoy a rye manhattan it's just not my favorite.