I don't know what the hell any of that is. So for those of us who know nothing of WoW. What's rotation number crunching? Should I care? Is it some crazy powergaming concept? Will I need to know it to raid with you guys because honestly I just want to hit things with a hammer.
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midga"There's so much hot dog in Rome" ~digi(> ^.(> O_o)>Icrontian
Your "rotation" is the skills you use in the order you use them in a fight. Changing the order you do things in and your timing in doing them can have a significant impact on your effectiveness in combat. Say you have a spell that buffs fireball, for instance. If you cast the buff before you cast fireball, it'll be a lot more effective than if you cast the buff after you cast fireball. This is a very simple, non-existent case, but hopefully it conveys the idea.
Number-crunching on this would be, essentially, looking at the different combinations and timings and figuring out the most effective ones. Minmaxing, basically.
Sustainable optimized DPS. I'm making a spreadsheet next time I get a chance to play. Shouldn't be too hard -- total mana/recharge times/etc.
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midga"There's so much hot dog in Rome" ~digi(> ^.(> O_o)>Icrontian
You just have to factor in buffs, and conditional buffs, and chance effects, and recognize which abilities aren't on the global cooldown and/or if you have abilities that reset cooldowns. There's also whether the abilities can be used while moving or you have to stand still to think about, and how to time everything so you still get maximum damage from your autoattack.
Then there's also glyphs and re-picking abilities (vanishing dust (which is totally new to me (it's kinda like the new skill tree but super simplified))) for different situations to consider...
I just hit buttons and figure it out as I go, occasionally looking at a guide when I have a good feel for what does what or if I need a little info on something. I would at least look at a guide for your skills, though, just to get an idea of what each one does before you burn through a crapton of vanishing dust.
I like to bubble and then hit people with an attack that does 250% damage. I dunno, it works haven't died yet. (Well except in one instance, fuck fighting two elite ogres at the same time)
For me, it's like 90% vs 100%. You can generally get 90% of your damage if you know the class and abilities well and use them correctly, like casting a buff before an ability or letting something like a DOT from a warlock tick all the way through before renewing it. To get that last 10% or 5% or 1%, you need to have rows of macros with alt/shift/ctrl options and spell state checks and micro manage your global cooldowns, etc etc etc. Some classes have this easier than others. For me, when I was tanking Paladin, I did well enough at 90% to not worry much about the last 10%. I had a few addons that helped manage buffs and one or two macros and that was it. I remembered a spell cast order, and we wiped shit. When I was a big bowl of cotton candy (healing paladin, armor was pink), I just used healbot. So easy to just left, right or middle click on the appropriate target in a raid frame. Again, I'm not criticizing the min/max people, just don't need to hear the process
My absolute favorite fights as tankadin were running through whole rooms in Kara and just wrecking them because I had so much threat front loaded that everyone got to just go balls to the wall with AOE abilities.
For those who do want to see it, http://forums.elitistjerks.com/ was/is the gold standard for nerdtastical talking about WoW. Optimized builds, enchantments, spell orders, etc etc etc. The tanking paladin thread was a standby for me to check every time a new patch was coming out because someone who cared a lot more than me (and enjoyed it) already figured out and tested the best possible combo of all things on the test server. The 5.4 Retribution Paladin article is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Insane amounts of info, best choices laid out and why, rotations, etc etc
Man seeing you guys talk about WoW like this ... playing it ... it seems like a vast epic wasteland of knowledge and obsession. Like a post nuclear winter world that I just jumped in to for fun. Getting on last night and making a joke of it with pets, trololol Jimmy teleports, etc ... it's like I'm dancing in the blood, sweat, and tears of digital ghosts who made this their life.
Man seeing you guys talk about WoW like this ... playing it ... it seems like a vast epic wasteland of knowledge and obsession. Like a post nuclear winter world that I just jumped in to for fun. Getting on last night and making a joke of it with pets, trololol Jimmy teleports, etc ... it's like I'm dancing in the blood, sweat, and tears of digital ghosts who made this their life.
There are people who invest scary amounts of time in this game, so it's not at all surprising to me that you see it like that.
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JBoogalooThis too shall pass...Alexandria, VAIcrontian
For me, it's like 90% vs 100%. You can generally get 90% of your damage if you know the class and abilities well and use them correctly, like casting a buff before an ability or letting something like a DOT from a warlock tick all the way through before renewing it. To get that last 10% or 5% or 1%, you need to have rows of macros with alt/shift/ctrl options and spell state checks and micro manage your global cooldowns, etc etc etc. Some classes have this easier than others. For me, when I was tanking Paladin, I did well enough at 90% to not worry much about the last 10%. I had a few addons that helped manage buffs and one or two macros and that was it. I remembered a spell cast order, and we wiped shit. When I was a big bowl of cotton candy (healing paladin, armor was pink), I just used healbot. So easy to just left, right or middle click on the appropriate target in a raid frame. Again, I'm not criticizing the min/max people, just don't need to hear the process
My absolute favorite fights as tankadin were running through whole rooms in Kara and just wrecking them because I had so much threat front loaded that everyone got to just go balls to the wall with AOE abilities.
For those who do want to see it, http://forums.elitistjerks.com/ was/is the gold standard for nerdtastical talking about WoW. Optimized builds, enchantments, spell orders, etc etc etc. The tanking paladin thread was a standby for me to check every time a new patch was coming out because someone who cared a lot more than me (and enjoyed it) already figured out and tested the best possible combo of all things on the test server. The 5.4 Retribution Paladin article is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Insane amounts of info, best choices laid out and why, rotations, etc etc
Great suggestion, but sometimes EJ becomes WAY too involved and WAYYYY to back and forth with their info and at times can become a bit overwhelming. http://www.noxxic.com/wow has bee around a while and has provided some pretty basic "get these, do this and work yourself to what fits you" type site. It can go all EJ on the forums too, but I tend to stay away from there as much as I can, lol!
if you're spending more time in a spreadsheet to beat someone on DPS or HPS than playing the game you're doing it wrong imo
Whatever makes one happy, so long as it doesn't hurt others. I'm ultra competitive, even if I don't always win The spreadsheet will be fun for me. I'll give this "pokemon" music a chance.
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RahnalH102the Green Devout, Veteran Monster Hunter, Creature EnthusiastNew MexicoIcrontian
I'm probably going to be leveling either a warlock or a huntard up as well, so I can run around with whoever is low.
THEMS BE FIGHTING WORDS!
On the topic of number crunching: In my opinion, unless your trying Heroic raids, you don't need to number crunch as much as before. For me it just seems to be: Do I understand my class? Do I understand the basics of other classes? Do I understand the boss Mechanics? Is at least 50% of my gear from previous level content? I'm good to go then! Are the people in my group in the same boat? Help them out regardless.
On the topic of number crunching: In my opinion, unless your trying Heroic raids, you don't need to number crunch as much as before. For me it just seems to be: Do I understand my class? Do I understand the basics of other classes? Do I understand the boss Mechanics? Is at least 50% of my gear from previous level content? I'm good to go then! Are the people in my group in the same boat? Help them out regardless.
But as was mentioned before, to each their own.
In the mean time, .... acquiring targets ...
I agree with idea of having enough knowledge to know what glyphs & spec are needed... and some idea on the ideal rotation. Getting top DPS/HPS isn't appealing to everyone. However... you gotta ask why someone would try for hours for an upgrade of 8 iLvls when they could get 10x that amount of improvement by just being better at their rotation.
Fine line between being smart (no one wants to play with someone who doesn't know/care how to play well) and being obsessive (ultra-focused on that last DPS).
I'll tell you what was told to me when I was first starting out: don't worry about it.
Focus on what you're doing, just play to have fun; don't worry, there won't be a test. I mean, that's why we're doing this as a group - for fun, right?
When we start raiding, there might be more emphasis on optimization, but let it come naturally. I figure we're all reasonable, intelligent folks - we are all susceptible to similar drives. Let things like friendly competition, the desire to be skillful, the will to better support your friends and other things like that push you to learn a bit and maybe optimize a little here and there. Every little bit helps, and as long as you're having fun, you're not giving up; if you're not giving up, you're practicing... and we all know practice makes babies.
...er, perfect. Practice makes perfect.
What I'm getting at is "don't feel artificially pressured to optimize." As time passes, you'll get natural pressure to optimize just by the nature of the game, and I trust that most of you will ask questions in mumble or seek out information to your own capacity. And those that won't will just be in awe of Jimmy's sick deeps and feel horribly inferior.
I'll do a healer down the road, perhaps. For right now though, I'm gonna make my first toon a Rogue, since I've never gotten one to high level, and what I do remember of them was really fun. Sneaking around mobs, sapping, pickpocketing, that sort of thing. Thus far, what I've played seems to be -really- streamlined. I like it a lot, actually- it's no-nonsense, and you feel like you're dropping right into the beginnings of what your class is capable of right away.
And I -had- to do it Worgen, because the idea of stalking monsters as a larger, nightmarish monster is appealing to me.
Ho-lee crap. the way they're doing specs now threw me for a loop. The last time I played was when Cata first came out- that's around when I stopped playing last. I was wondering where my talent tree and stuff is, but apparently they've vastly simplified it with this expansion. They did away with talent points and now you just buy new talent skills every 15 levels.
To be entirely honest, though? I think it's kind of neat. Gives you bursts of advancement to work towards, instead of a slow crawl with milestones along the way.
Comments
"I WANNA HAVE BEST ROTATION FOR BITCHSLAPPING THIS SQUIRREL"
or
"I'm going to go stomp face on these old world dungeons"
(I fall into all 4 categories)
Number-crunching on this would be, essentially, looking at the different combinations and timings and figuring out the most effective ones. Minmaxing, basically.
Then there's also glyphs and re-picking abilities (vanishing dust (which is totally new to me (it's kinda like the new skill tree but super simplified))) for different situations to consider...
I just hit buttons and figure it out as I go, occasionally looking at a guide when I have a good feel for what does what or if I need a little info on something. I would at least look at a guide for your skills, though, just to get an idea of what each one does before you burn through a crapton of vanishing dust.
My absolute favorite fights as tankadin were running through whole rooms in Kara and just wrecking them because I had so much threat front loaded that everyone got to just go balls to the wall with AOE abilities.
For those who do want to see it, http://forums.elitistjerks.com/ was/is the gold standard for nerdtastical talking about WoW. Optimized builds, enchantments, spell orders, etc etc etc. The tanking paladin thread was a standby for me to check every time a new patch was coming out because someone who cared a lot more than me (and enjoyed it) already figured out and tested the best possible combo of all things on the test server. The 5.4 Retribution Paladin article is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Insane amounts of info, best choices laid out and why, rotations, etc etc
On the topic of number crunching:
In my opinion, unless your trying Heroic raids, you don't need to number crunch as much as before.
For me it just seems to be: Do I understand my class? Do I understand the basics of other classes? Do I understand the boss Mechanics? Is at least 50% of my gear from previous level content? I'm good to go then! Are the people in my group in the same boat? Help them out regardless.
But as was mentioned before, to each their own.
In the mean time, .... acquiring targets ...
Fine line between being smart (no one wants to play with someone who doesn't know/care how to play well) and being obsessive (ultra-focused on that last DPS).
Focus on what you're doing, just play to have fun; don't worry, there won't be a test. I mean, that's why we're doing this as a group - for fun, right?
When we start raiding, there might be more emphasis on optimization, but let it come naturally. I figure we're all reasonable, intelligent folks - we are all susceptible to similar drives. Let things like friendly competition, the desire to be skillful, the will to better support your friends and other things like that push you to learn a bit and maybe optimize a little here and there. Every little bit helps, and as long as you're having fun, you're not giving up; if you're not giving up, you're practicing... and we all know practice makes babies.
...er, perfect. Practice makes perfect.
What I'm getting at is "don't feel artificially pressured to optimize." As time passes, you'll get natural pressure to optimize just by the nature of the game, and I trust that most of you will ask questions in mumble or seek out information to your own capacity. And those that won't will just be in awe of Jimmy's sick deeps and feel horribly inferior.
And I -had- to do it Worgen, because the idea of stalking monsters as a larger, nightmarish monster is appealing to me.
I might switch her over.
Could we get a battletag doc going?To be entirely honest, though? I think it's kind of neat. Gives you bursts of advancement to work towards, instead of a slow crawl with milestones along the way.