At work I use SuSE 10.0 32bit. At home I use SuSE 10.0 64bit. A lot of people I work with use Fedora Core 4, mainly because some stuff we have is using rpms, but since I'm something totally seperate I use SuSE. I have a lot less problems with it.
Several reasons - to learn and programm; and to use linux to run a server.
How have the peripheral and driver interactions improved since SUSE 6.1 (1998). Or would it be better to learn UNIX? Both?
Also I have heard much ado about Red HaT ????
And thank you for the replies!
One more question - without the I LIKE THIS BETTER YOUR SYSTEM SUCKS:bs:
How does Windows Server really compare to Linux as a dedicated server system?
Again it all depends on what you want to do with them. For workgroups and small office/home lans, I would not use anything other than windows server with active directory. For web purposes, apache/mysql/php, etc. I would not use anything other than linux.
Distro comes down to personal opinions, so you're never going to get a cohesive answer as to a "best" distro. They're all the best - they all do exactly what you want and are willing to do with them. For web servers, I use CentOS, which is the free version of Red Hat Enterprise. For home stuff, I personally like ubuntu.
Nice! I love the frankness! Truly I want to create several dynamic web sites and of course - serve them myself! I currently have the hardware ( a bit aged ) and It is great to hear actual user opinions. I also have old versions of Windows SQL Server Enterprise 6.1 and Server NT. Are these system just too outdated ? Or with self programmed security and care could these or the Linux SUSE 6.1 still be -- well a start? Or have these been hacked/cracked/script kiddied to bits and pieces?
Security is a big issue for me - for a multitude of reasons - one of which is that I protest against intelligence without constructive purpose etc... and @$&*( do you not just hate the downtime that BS spyware and Virus irresponsibility create:necro: :shakehead !!????)
If you have NT4, that is too outdated. It will get owned in a matter of hours, even with all the latest patches. Same with SuSE 6.1. You need a more modern distro to be safe when you are exposed to the internet. Luckily, even a modern linux distro will run really good on old hardware.
The hardware detection for most modern linux distro's is very good compared to what it used to be. Cutting edge video cards though do sometimes cause issues. Though on a server that shouldn't be a problem.
I normally push Debian (or any package based on debian like Ubuntu) because of apt-get. Apt-get is a feature for installing and updateing the software on it. It's similar to RPM's only it works - better. With apt-get if you want to install something in a repository it will install the program and also any dependencies that are required. But best of all once you've installed something it creates an index of all your installed software. So that in the future all you need to do is issue apt-get update to get the refreshed updates list then apt-get upgrade and it will go through all the software you've installed on your system and update it to the newest version.
It makes things soo much easier. Fedora and most other RPM based distro's do have similar distribution schemes but It's just been my experience that they don't work as well. I've found more frequently that things don't download or lists are broken and the process just seems to take much longer.
I also find that Debian backed distro's seem to run a little faster.
I'm mostly a Gentoo man myself but I have some respect for SuSE 7. If you're thinking about doing programming and want to use an IDE (integrated development environment a la Visual Studio) you'll probably want to use KDE as your Window Manager whatever distro you choose since KDevelop is the most user-friendly and functional IDE imho. It supports C, C++, Fortran, and some other stuff I don't use. If you're sold on Gnome though Anjuta isn't bad though mine only supports C and C++.
My experiences with distros are largely determined by how easy it was for me to install new software and manage updates without breaking the system. I honestly haven't used Fedora but my experiences with RedHat 6 and 8 leave much to be desired (RPM Hell). SuSE's YAST is the first package manager for RPMs I've ever seen that actually works. Debian's apt and Gentoo's portage package managers are the best imho which is why I use Gentoo for my machines that can compile and Debian for those that can't. I'm given to understand that BSD's ports is pretty snappy too but I can't comment personally since I haven't used it.
As far as ease of installation goes though, that ball rests firmly in the hands of SuSE, Mandrake, and probably Fedora. Gentoo's installer is a bunch of shell scripts and a livecd which is about as un-newbie friendly as it comes and Debian's installer was cryptic though once you actually get it installed you can get it set up with apt fairly easily.
I run "Simply Mepis" wich is Debian Based, very easy to use and install
i recommend it!!
I used to be a fan of mephis. But they deviate just a little to far from stock debian so I've encountered weirdness when trying to install deb apps not in their repository. Ubuntu on the other hand is stock deb and the repositories are interchangable with Debian Sarge which is great. Plus Ubuntu also has a live cd now which is great for those times when I need a live cd.
I'm mostly a Gentoo man myself but I have some respect for SuSE 7. If you're thinking about doing programming and want to use an IDE (integrated development environment a la Visual Studio) you'll probably want to use KDE as your Window Manager whatever distro you choose since KDevelop is the most user-friendly and functional IDE imho. It supports C, C++, Fortran, and some other stuff I don't use. If you're sold on Gnome though Anjuta isn't bad though mine only supports C and C++.
I've never understood this gap, I don't have Gnome or KDE installed (I use Flux or XFCE) and I happily run QT and GTK programs all the time without issue and everything is fine, so basically I'd say use what Distro fits you best and use the WM/DE that you like the look/feel of best.
I am going to research all the variants offered. As I am only familiar with Linux SUSE 6 and truly re-learning that- mostly to know how to modify it to my needs. Sometimes I think of putting in the effort that would equal almost completely re-designing it into a essentialy "new" OS.
Debian sounds interesting? As with Mandriva especially with the aged Servers I was given. They appearantly cost more than 18 000 for the base when they had been released IBM 704 Server- at least in this area of the world.
One Idea I have entertained is developing my own security suite for the server- something that really works. If I can pull it off I plan to create an Open -Source Version if there was an interest.Years away though
How is programming with (the languages I am learning) Python, ADA and/or perl?
I have also heard that AI is good with LINUX - any views?
Why go to the trouble of creating your own security sweet? There are a couple core ones out that are excellent and solid. For standard access get a box going with Squid proxy, Clamav, popfile, and dans guardian and you have an extremely solid inet box that will monitor all ports check all traffic, monitor web content and emails.
Put two nics in it and have it sit between your inet and your internet and everything passes through it. Extremely stable, extremely configurable and best of all secure.
I've never understood this gap, I don't have Gnome or KDE installed (I use Flux or XFCE) and I happily run QT and GTK programs all the time without issue and everything is fine, so basically I'd say use what Distro fits you best and use the WM/DE that you like the look/feel of best.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. KDevelop actually relies on KDE and has to have a functional KDE installation to work. I think it might be able to run under Gnome if I had a full KDE installation as well. At the time I was concerned about blockers so I refrained.
I have xfce on my "To Try" list for future installs. It looks really pretty.
I am mostly a Wintel user and I have a "need" to actually create a system that would make both Windows and Linux truly secure.
I am interested in the ability - at least from my interpretation of Linux, to essentially pop the hood and even have the ability swap engines - using the Linux kernel, creating basically a Security Suite/OS that surrounds it based of off Linux. Essentialy building a new variant off said OS based and focused on security.
My experience with various different types of security suites from well known to obscure is that if you have 2 or uninstal one install another : one always seems to find some crap the other missed!
I also have heard, by doing some extensive web searches that Linux is compromised routinely as well. If you know the real programming etc... I am sure that it is damn near an impossibility to create a secure computer.
I think Gentoo installs certain KDE/Gnome libraries to make things work properly without installing the whole DEs.
i.e. the programs I have installed currently (but I don't have KDE or Gnome) are:
gDesklets
Anjuta
Bluefish
KDiff3
SciTE
Celestia
Sodipodi
Gimp
Blender
Pornview
Amarok
GnomeBaker
K3B
DRIP
Hydrogen
MPlayer
Kino
VLC
GRIP
Gaim
Azureus
gFTP
XChat
Mozilla
KBluetooth (the KDE Bluetooth suit)
Evolution
Scribus
OpenOffice
GParted
QTParted
VMWare
etc (excluding games as they don't really matter)
Things like Evolution and GDesklets are heavily gnome dependant and Amarok, KBluetooth and such are heavily KDE dependant, but I have no problems at all.
Enverex, a lot of stuff works with the libs installed and yes Gentoo handles that rather well. However, KDevelop and I imagine a few others as well will only work with both the KDE base libs installed and the KDE environment variables set. I was worried about breaking Gnome so I didn't pursue the matter any further after KDevelop refused to run with an error along the lines of "Could not locate a working KDE environment blah blah blah". We have some SuSE workstations here and YaST won't even let you install it on Gnome. Whatever, Anjuta is working just fine.
It's not quite as comprehensive as Photoship or PSP but it has many features and works well. It may seem a little odd coming from one of the other programs though as it has no main window, just uses little windows.
Enverex, a lot of stuff works with the libs installed and yes Gentoo handles that rather well. However, KDevelop and I imagine a few others as well will only work with both the KDE base libs installed and the KDE environment variables set. I was worried about breaking Gnome so I didn't pursue the matter any further after KDevelop refused to run with an error along the lines of "Could not locate a working KDE environment blah blah blah". We have some SuSE workstations here and YaST won't even let you install it on Gnome. Whatever, Anjuta is working just fine.
-drasnor
True, Gentoo seems to set all that up for you with the base libraries which would explain why everything seems to work. Still saves space than installing everything entirely.
Downloaded GIMP - yet to try it. Appreciate the info. Still leaning towards SUSE though RED Hat and Debian are interesting. Want kind of advancements/alterations are you allowed to make to Linux distros? Any it will accept/handle/that you can pull off?
Downloaded GIMP - yet to try it. Appreciate the info. Still leaning towards SUSE though RED Hat and Debian are interesting. Want kind of advancements/alterations are you allowed to make to Linux distros? Any it will accept/handle/that you can pull off?
Not sure what you mean by that, you can normally hack it up as much as you like within reason...
Thelemech
Victoria Icrontian
Comments
I use fedora & ubuntu. What are you looking to do with said linux install?
How have the peripheral and driver interactions improved since SUSE 6.1 (1998). Or would it be better to learn UNIX? Both?
Also I have heard much ado about Red HaT ????
And thank you for the replies!
One more question - without the I LIKE THIS BETTER YOUR SYSTEM SUCKS:bs:
How does Windows Server really compare to Linux as a dedicated server system?
Distro comes down to personal opinions, so you're never going to get a cohesive answer as to a "best" distro. They're all the best - they all do exactly what you want and are willing to do with them. For web servers, I use CentOS, which is the free version of Red Hat Enterprise. For home stuff, I personally like ubuntu.
Security is a big issue for me - for a multitude of reasons - one of which is that I protest against intelligence without constructive purpose etc... and @$&*( do you not just hate the downtime that BS spyware and Virus irresponsibility create:necro: :shakehead !!????)
I normally push Debian (or any package based on debian like Ubuntu) because of apt-get. Apt-get is a feature for installing and updateing the software on it. It's similar to RPM's only it works - better. With apt-get if you want to install something in a repository it will install the program and also any dependencies that are required. But best of all once you've installed something it creates an index of all your installed software. So that in the future all you need to do is issue apt-get update to get the refreshed updates list then apt-get upgrade and it will go through all the software you've installed on your system and update it to the newest version.
It makes things soo much easier. Fedora and most other RPM based distro's do have similar distribution schemes but It's just been my experience that they don't work as well. I've found more frequently that things don't download or lists are broken and the process just seems to take much longer.
I also find that Debian backed distro's seem to run a little faster.
My experiences with distros are largely determined by how easy it was for me to install new software and manage updates without breaking the system. I honestly haven't used Fedora but my experiences with RedHat 6 and 8 leave much to be desired (RPM Hell). SuSE's YAST is the first package manager for RPMs I've ever seen that actually works. Debian's apt and Gentoo's portage package managers are the best imho which is why I use Gentoo for my machines that can compile and Debian for those that can't. I'm given to understand that BSD's ports is pretty snappy too but I can't comment personally since I haven't used it.
As far as ease of installation goes though, that ball rests firmly in the hands of SuSE, Mandrake, and probably Fedora. Gentoo's installer is a bunch of shell scripts and a livecd which is about as un-newbie friendly as it comes and Debian's installer was cryptic though once you actually get it installed you can get it set up with apt fairly easily.
-drasnor
i recommend it!!
I used to be a fan of mephis. But they deviate just a little to far from stock debian so I've encountered weirdness when trying to install deb apps not in their repository. Ubuntu on the other hand is stock deb and the repositories are interchangable with Debian Sarge which is great. Plus Ubuntu also has a live cd now which is great for those times when I need a live cd.
I've never understood this gap, I don't have Gnome or KDE installed (I use Flux or XFCE) and I happily run QT and GTK programs all the time without issue and everything is fine, so basically I'd say use what Distro fits you best and use the WM/DE that you like the look/feel of best.
I am going to research all the variants offered. As I am only familiar with Linux SUSE 6 and truly re-learning that- mostly to know how to modify it to my needs. Sometimes I think of putting in the effort that would equal almost completely re-designing it into a essentialy "new" OS.
Debian sounds interesting? As with Mandriva especially with the aged Servers I was given. They appearantly cost more than 18 000 for the base when they had been released IBM 704 Server- at least in this area of the world.
One Idea I have entertained is developing my own security suite for the server- something that really works. If I can pull it off I plan to create an Open -Source Version if there was an interest.Years away though
How is programming with (the languages I am learning) Python, ADA and/or perl?
I have also heard that AI is good with LINUX - any views?
Put two nics in it and have it sit between your inet and your internet and everything passes through it. Extremely stable, extremely configurable and best of all secure.
I have xfce on my "To Try" list for future installs. It looks really pretty.
-drasnor
I am interested in the ability - at least from my interpretation of Linux, to essentially pop the hood and even have the ability swap engines - using the Linux kernel, creating basically a Security Suite/OS that surrounds it based of off Linux. Essentialy building a new variant off said OS based and focused on security.
My experience with various different types of security suites from well known to obscure is that if you have 2 or uninstal one install another : one always seems to find some crap the other missed!
I also have heard, by doing some extensive web searches that Linux is compromised routinely as well. If you know the real programming etc... I am sure that it is damn near an impossibility to create a secure computer.
i.e. the programs I have installed currently (but I don't have KDE or Gnome) are:
gDesklets
Anjuta
Bluefish
KDiff3
SciTE
Celestia
Sodipodi
Gimp
Blender
Pornview
Amarok
GnomeBaker
K3B
DRIP
Hydrogen
MPlayer
Kino
VLC
GRIP
Gaim
Azureus
gFTP
XChat
Mozilla
KBluetooth (the KDE Bluetooth suit)
Evolution
Scribus
OpenOffice
GParted
QTParted
VMWare
etc (excluding games as they don't really matter)
Things like Evolution and GDesklets are heavily gnome dependant and Amarok, KBluetooth and such are heavily KDE dependant, but I have no problems at all.
-drasnor
It's not quite as comprehensive as Photoship or PSP but it has many features and works well. It may seem a little odd coming from one of the other programs though as it has no main window, just uses little windows.
True, Gentoo seems to set all that up for you with the base libraries which would explain why everything seems to work. Still saves space than installing everything entirely.
give it a go , its awesome !
Downloaded GIMP - yet to try it. Appreciate the info. Still leaning towards SUSE though RED Hat and Debian are interesting. Want kind of advancements/alterations are you allowed to make to Linux distros? Any it will accept/handle/that you can pull off?
Not sure what you mean by that, you can normally hack it up as much as you like within reason...