Phantom power draw

LincLinc OwnerDetroit Icrontian
edited June 2010 in Science & Tech
Mike reveals that turning your electronics "off" doesn't mean they stop eating power:
I always had a rough idea of how much electricity certain devices used, but it was amazing to get actual measurements. Many high-drain devices like the 1500 watt toaster oven are used for only brief periods during the day. At least that 1500 watts was being put to good use—you don’t turn on the oven unless you are going to use it and you certainly don’t expect it to use any electricity sitting there idle, or do you?

Comments

  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    This is a very eye-opening look at the topic, Mike. I was especially surprised that your phantom draw was the equivalent of leaving all the lights on in your house 24/7. I use CFLs throughout my house as well, but now I might have to go out and get a power meter too!
  • ButtersButters CA Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    Mike,

    Nice article, its good to know there is soomeone out there that shares similar concerns, although I do have a 24/7 folder.

    I do have one question, what about cell phone chargers with and without a cell phone plugged in, left in the socket?
  • lemonlimelemonlime Canada Member
    edited February 2008
    Butters wrote:
    Mike,

    Nice article, its good to know there is soomeone out there that shares similar concerns, although I do have a 24/7 folder.

    I do have one question, what about cell phone chargers with and without a cell phone plugged in, left in the socket?

    Thanks for the comments Butters and GH :)

    Good question.. Although I didn't include it in the article, I did test a phone charger, which appeared to draw about 3W while charging my blackberry. I didn't test it without anything connected. I'll do that tonight and let you know. My meter isn't terribly sensitive to small amounts of load, unfortunately. If it is below 2W, it probably will not register.
  • WinfreyWinfrey waddafuh Missouri Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    Very interesting stuff :thumbsup:

    I find it at least comforting to notice that newer devices seem to be trending towards lower amounts of Phantom draw, like your DVD player and 27" TV. I think it would be interesting to see if an older PC has lower amounts of phantom load compared to newer rigs. Your desktops seem to show that, but maybe an Intel Vs. AMD system or ATI Vs. Nvidia comparison would have greater disparity?
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    Ooooh, I really didn't know that so many things consumed that much when "off." Mike, I like you have done much to improve the energy efficiency of my home. No, I don't like power and gas bills. Hmm, I'll start looking for things that can be unplugged.
  • lemonlimelemonlime Canada Member
    edited February 2008
    FreeC8675 wrote:
    ..I think it would be interesting to see if an older PC has lower amounts of phantom load compared to newer rigs. Your desktops seem to show that, but maybe an Intel Vs. AMD system or ATI Vs. Nvidia comparison would have greater disparity?

    Good question. I have an old Mac G4 and a P3 that I can dig up. I'll see if I can find some time to test them. I know that the PSU plays a big factor in phantom draw, especially when shut off via the switch. When switched on, with the PC off, it is a combination of the motherboard and PSU.
  • GargGarg Purveyor of Lincoln Nightmares Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    Here's a calculation of what LL's phantom power draw might cost a month:

    0.107 Kilowatts * $0.07/kilowatt-hour * 24 hours * 30 days = $5.39 USD.

    Using 7 cents per kilowatt hour as the average price. Your experience may vary.
  • kayeirene
    edited February 2010
    thanks for the information this is very informative!
  • Colin
    edited June 2010
    Just looking at the 2 internet devices...WiFi and Cable modem, I think I'll look into a combo dealy. Just that would half the power usage, kinda.
  • Elliott
    edited June 2010
    I use something like this: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001GQ2W6W?ie=UTF8&tag=icrontic-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001GQ2W6W">Belkin BG108000-04 Conserve Energy Saving Surge Strip</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=icrontic-20&l=as2&o=1&a=B001GQ2W6W&quot; width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" />, for most of my electronics. It's pretty convenient.
  • Ian
    edited June 2010
    I put a lot of things on power bars like computers and TVs. You can hit the kill switch on the power bar when you are not using it.

    I recently got a remote powerbar which I can hit a the kill switch remotely and that switch is a wireless lightswitch which you can stick on the wall. Im pretty sure the powerbar idles as well but probably not near as much as my computer, speakers, and monitor which I have all attached to it.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited June 2010
    Elliott wrote:
    I use something like this: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001GQ2W6W?ie=UTF8&tag=icrontic-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001GQ2W6W">Belkin BG108000-04 Conserve Energy Saving Surge Strip</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=icrontic-20&l=as2&o=1&a=B001GQ2W6W&quot; width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" />, for most of my electronics. It's pretty convenient.

    That's not a bad idea either.
  • CyrixInsteadCyrixInstead Stoke-on-Trent, England Icrontian
    edited June 2010
    An interesting read!

    Wasn't there a similar article on Icrontic a few years back?

    ~Cyrix
  • MAGICMAGIC Doot Doot Furniture City, Michigan Icrontian
    edited June 2010
    I usually hit the switch on the surge protector powering my home theatre system when I'm done using it out of habit. Does that help reduce the draw?
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2010
    If the strip is off, the draw is off.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited June 2010
    CyrixInstead wrote:
    An interesting read!

    Wasn't there a similar article on Icrontic a few years back?

    ~Cyrix

    Same article. We've cleaned it up and republished it, because it's just as timely as it ever was.
  • brightblue
    edited June 2010
    Something is wrong with your computer power supplies. The rocker switch on the back should be "hard" on or off, just like on power strips. When the switch is off, the system should be getting no energy. Also, ten watts when the system is off but receiving electricity sounds high to me. That electricity goes to the clock and onboard NIC (for wake on LAN). My computers use between one and four watts when off, but getting ATX standby power. Check if your power supplies are 80 PLUS certified. They are the norm nowadays, so there is almost no excuse not to have an efficient PSU in a modern computer.
  • MyrmidonMyrmidon Baron von Puttenham California Icrontian
    edited June 2010
    So I went to an open conference between a couple environmental and electrical engineers - one of whom was the mentor to my major professor (thus explaining my attendance).

    They mentioned that the biggest energy draws are usually fans; things with fans in them. If your cable box has a fan to keep it from getting too hot or something like that, then that makes it a HUGE phantom power draw.

    Of course, this probably isn't a TERRIBLY useful statement (how many small appliances like that use fans?), but I figured someone might think it's interesting.
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  • drasnordrasnor Starship Operator Hawthorne, CA Icrontian
    edited June 2010
    Some of y'all might be candidates for an SPRIME system. Wirelessly track power consumption of equipped outlets in your home, disable outlets individually or by group, schedule outlets to be disabled, etc. All with open hardware.
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  • John
    Replacing the power supply in a PC with an 80+ Bronze or better will reduce both your phantom power consumption. It will also knock off 20-50 watts right off the operating consumption as well.
    It will pay for itself in 1-2 years.
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