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The bombs and clubs of Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword

The bombs and clubs of Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword


With Fire and Sword is the newest expansion for Mount & Blade. If you’re not familiar with the game as it stands, first check out my review of the base game, and then the Warband expansion.

The big thing this time is the addition of gunpowder. The muzzle-loading boom-stick has apparently been invented in the Mount & Blade world, along with the hand-grenade. Players will now be equipped with rifles and muskets in battle (you get a simple musket right from the get-go). The enemies get them also, of course, and it makes a lot of changes to the battlefield. The guns work much like crossbows—they have to be loaded after each shot, and they punch through armor easier than arrows. In fact, the only real difference between the muskets and the crossbows is a small load-time-to-damage ratio change and the fact that nearly everyone on the battlefield now at least has a side-arm. Imagine a battlefield full of crossbows in Warband. That’s what it’s like.

The bombs, on the other hand, are actually a pretty neat addition. They introduce the first AoE damage in the game. They come in very small packages however, with the most damaging bombs only having an ammo of one per battle. Also, if you want to use bombs in the single-player campaign, be prepared to wait about 40-60 hours into the story because the cheapest (and thus crappiest) of the bombs is over $60k. “Oh, I can make $60k in less than 40 hours,” you say? Keep reading.

This version of the game has a much wider variety of foes, which might be the only new feature I don’t see a downside to. Rather than just little groups of bandits, and gigantic companies of Lords’ armies which were the only fare of the previous iteration, Fire and Sword introduces some middling parties. There are scouting parties which seem to be 10-30 men on horseback, and similar foraging parties. I also noticed some minor Lords with smaller forces, which means that you don’t have to keep bandit hunting to fight small groups of enemies.

I thought it was nice that a tutorial was tacked on to this edition, though I’m not sure who it’s for, since very few people would be playing this expansion who didn’t already know how to play, but I’m sure it’s nice for first-timers. Unfortunately, players are required to play through the tutorial, like it or not, which got a bit annoying after I started my eighth game.

Once in the game, I traveled far and wide, but found no villages anywhere in which I could recruit some soldiers. None. This is not hyperbole. There are no more free soldiers willing to join your cause. This means that every soldier you add to your army must be purchased, which isn’t cheap. Thankfully, they added some ‘mercenary camps’ at which new soldiers are always for sale, but that doesn’t make them any cheaper.

I also found very few blunt weapons. Perhaps I was just extremely unlucky, but in the many hours of play I put into this game, the only blunt weapon I ever found were basic clubs. Some of the most fun I’ve had with Mount & Blade has been running enemies down with a blunted lance (though since they removed lance couching, that isn’t as much fun anyway), but now it’s not possible. Which means, it’s also not possible to capture any prisoners, since any enemy defeated with an edged weapon or bullet is killed. This removes the game’s most lucrative mechanic, and means that the only way to make money now is through quests. The only way to solve quests, however,  is to have a large army. This combination makes the early stages of the game excruciatingly slow. Mentally steel yourself to spend 3 to 4 times as long being a no-name bandit slayer (which there is also no money in), or allowing yourself to take the low road and start attacking peaceful caravans for money and goods.

It’s nearly impossible to rise up from failure. If you get captured, and so find yourself with a handful of failed quests, no money, and no soldiers, you can’t just start going from town to town recruiting up the local boys and train them into a fighting force against the local bandits. There is no way to get back on your feet, since you can’t get money without soldiers, and you can’t get soldiers without money. This is why I started over so many times.

It’s also no longer an option, in this version, to have a female protagonist. Not much to say about that. It’s just kind of dumb, and doesn’t really make sense. I mean: Why remove something like that? You can still choose a female in multi-player, but not in single-player. It’s not like the story requires a male—in fact, the story is much less interesting than the base game, when players got to choose a bunch of things about their background to affect their starting situation. In Fire and Sword, everyone starts with the same story, which is no story at all: you’re just dropped, context free, into the harsh world.

As for multi-player, it hasn’t changed much. It is still dominated by horse-archers. If you want to win, be a horse-archer. No one in the multi-player game is even using guns or bombs. Well, no one who’s winning, anyway. Also, don’t be not very good at the game. People hate that.

With all of these terrible changes to the game, I wonder just what Taleworlds is thinking. I loved the original Mount & Blade, but each expansion has made the game incrementally less fun. They probably think they are improving the game, but I have a feeling they are pandering to a tiny vocal minority of fans on their forums, a group of people who apparently favor realism over enjoyment—since most of the explanations for changes have been that they make the game “more realistic”. So, what’s happened is that all of the things about the base game which were fun—recruiting villagers, conking people with couched quarterstaves, selling prisoners to the slave-traders, etc—have been slowly bled out of the game, leaving it a dried and joyless husk in which no more gaming nutrients can be found.

Comments

  1. primesuspect
  2. Jokke
    Jokke Yup, sums it up pretty well. Thank God this game has an active modding community. There are in fact free mods for Warband that add more content and enjoyability into M&B than Fire and Sword.
  3. GHoosdum
    GHoosdum I have a strong feeling that reading your review is significantly more enjoyable than this expansion.
  4. Winfrey
    Winfrey It is strange what they decided to take out from Warband.

    Not only is it difficult to capture prisoners, you don't get any good money for prisoners anyway.

    One of the weird things is that during the tutorial you cut down a fence with your sword and shoot a lock off a gate, which made me a little excited about destructible (in some sense) environments for the game. But that's the only part of the game I have ever cut down a fence or shot off a lock. Maybe I'm missing something?

    Also the change to how you recruit an army isn't quite as bad as CB paints it to be. The Mercenaries you can recruit are roughly equivalent to how much villagers cost in the previous games. You can also now upgrade the equipment of the mercenaries you get from the camps making them immediately stronger instead of having to wait to train them up. However this is costly, and getting a large amount of money is frankly a PITA.

    I kinda like how the battles are now, strategically placing your army makes a bit of difference. Forcing your riflemen to spread out makes them better against concentrated fire, but leaves them vulnerable to cavalry and pike charges. It would be sweet if you could organize your troops better. For example being able to split your "marksmen" into smaller groups like regiments, which would give more flexibility with formations. Controlling your army in M&B was never very intuitive and this expansion just recycles that same system unfortunately. The rifle and pistol have become (almost absurdly) the most important part of combat. Both can kill almost any soldier with a single shot and kill horses with 2.

    There are lots of other little changes as well. The arena is replaced by activities at the tavern where you can engage in endless bar fights that give you 50gp each time you win. And you can insult a drunken patron to initiate a 1 vs. 3 fight where if you win you get either 500gp or some decent gear and if you lose you lose stat points(!)

    For me the game isn't a complete let down, and Jokke raises a good point about the mod community. But I would also recommend that unless you effing love M&B games to try a demo first or just steer clear completely.
  5. kryyst
    kryyst WTF? Glad, yet sad, to see that my decision to just stick with the original M&B has still been the right one. The mod community has been putting out better stuff then anything the official developers have since it's origin.
  6. CB
    CB
    Winfrey wrote:

    Also the change to how you recruit an army isn't quite as bad as CB paints it to be. The Mercenaries you can recruit are roughly equivalent to how much villagers cost in the previous games. You can also now upgrade the equipment of the mercenaries you get from the camps making them immediately stronger instead of having to wait to train them up. However this is costly, and getting a large amount of money is frankly a PITA.

    Am I remembering it wrong? I was certain that getting farm-boys from the villages was completely free in the base-game.
  7. Jokke
    Jokke No, you paid a small amount of money, 10-20 denars or something, but definitely not as much as you pay for mercs..
  8. Winfrey
    Winfrey It depends which merc camps you go to, but basic recruits are usually around 20 denars. In the older versions it always cost 10 denars for each recruit you get from a village.

    Also mercenaries you can buy at taverns are relatively cheap in Fire and Sword.
  9. Luke i feel like you haven't really played this game properly. here's a couple things wrong with your review. 1) once you join a faction you can once more hire from villages, this is a adjustment to make it more historically accurate, as it's no longer local lords, but is now countries, and you can't just hire soldiers in villages in this time period. 2) couched lance damage is still there, there is just more differentiation between the cavalry lance, and the pike. 3) there are still blunt weapons, and there is seemingly some way to turn muskets and pistols into blunt weapons, although i haven't worked that out yet. In general, it's your continual starting over that has made this game suck for you, if you had just a bit more patience, and took the quest route, and also at the beginning avoid the troops of bad guys instead of aiming for them like you did in the original M&B, you'd soon be playing a very different game. It's just historically accurate for the time period that when you start out you would avoid those bandits that quests don't make you fight. if you really don't feel like doing that just set it to easy, and learn how to aim with the pistol. concequently, good point winfrey on the destructable enviroment in the tutorial. i think maybe it was originally intended to be for when you storm the gates of the town, and it says after you've killed x% you can open the gates, but as i've never managed to kill x% in that, and i usually go for blowing up the walls instead, i can't tell you.
  10. CB
    CB
    Luke wrote:
    i feel like you haven't really played this game properly. here's a couple things wrong with your review. 1) once you join a faction you can once more hire from villages, this is a adjustment to make it more historically accurate, as it's no longer local lords, but is now countries, and you can't just hire soldiers in villages in this time period. 2) couched lance damage is still there, there is just more differentiation between the cavalry lance, and the pike. 3) there are still blunt weapons, and there is seemingly some way to turn muskets and pistols into blunt weapons, although i haven't worked that out yet. In general, it's your continual starting over that has made this game suck for you, if you had just a bit more patience, and took the quest route, and also at the beginning avoid the troops of bad guys instead of aiming for them like you did in the original M&B, you'd soon be playing a very different game. It's just historically accurate for the time period that when you start out you would avoid those bandits that quests don't make you fight. if you really don't feel like doing that just set it to easy, and learn how to aim with the pistol. concequently, good point winfrey on the destructable enviroment in the tutorial. i think maybe it was originally intended to be for when you storm the gates of the town, and it says after you've killed x% you can open the gates, but as i've never managed to kill x% in that, and i usually go for blowing up the walls instead, i can't tell you.

    You might be right: but the thing about that is this: I shouldn't have to play a game "properly" to have fun. The way it had changed: If I hadn't been playing it to review it, I wouldn't have played past the first couple hours of not getting anywhere. Perhaps you have to do things differently to get somewhere compared to previous M&B iteration, but the game didn't make that clear to me, and I just kept failing until I was bored.

    Of course, part of it (a larger part than I make clear in the review), was about the lack of female characters. If there had never been female characters to begin with, it wouldn't have bothered me, but the fact that they removed the option from the game, made me feel like I couldn't really have the character I wanted - the character I'd made for the previous M&B games. That gave the game a bad taste that I never truly got rid of because I could never bring myself to care about these dumb characters. I even ended up giving them stupid names like "Dumb Guy" "Wishi Wasachic".

    The extent to which one cares about their character can have a big impact on a game. If I had been allowed to recreate "Phoenix Manawaker" the light-eyed, raven-haired beauty who I had taken through hundreds of hours of the original M&B, I likely wouldn't have given up on her so quickly, and maybe I'd have enjoyed the game more.

    I guess we'll never know.
  11. vinsanity0723
    vinsanity0723 Something a friend told me which I haven't been able to find a source to is that Warband is actually the expansion that was to come after fire and sword. It apparently uses a new engine and for some weird reason fire and sword was released before warband in europe but never made it to the US until now. Again this is shit my friend said so take it with a grain of salt. I'm too lazy to go looking up to see if it's legit.
  12. Jokke
    Jokke "Warband" was released before "With Fire and Sword", at least in Norway. WFaS was released before Christmas in some Eastern Europe countries, but still half a year after "Warband"

    "With Fire and Sword" is also the name of a mod for Warband, so that may have caused some confusion?
  13. SuperResistant Hi dude,

    It's a shame that you get bored by the game. At first I was exactly like you but I tried hard to understand the games mechanics and now I'm really having fun. Yes it is really different from Warband and most of the old strategies doesn't work anymore. I think it is more difficult and that's why I enjoy this game now, more than Warband. You can't find any tips on internet and you have to find your own way to make money and be powerful.

    Warband was a fictional-medieval game contrary to Fire and Sword who is a realistic-post medieval game. That explain a lot of points : you can't have a female character because female could never ever fight in the army at that time.

    You can still have blunt weapon : just press "x" with any gun or pistol and it is used as a polearm blunt weapon. To do it with your army, tell everyone to use blunt weapon (tell the cavalry to unmount if they don't have blunt weapon equipped because you can't use a gun as a blunt weapon if you are mounted). You can have a full cavalry army with good blunt weapon by changing the equipment of Cossack or Moscovites mercenaries cavalry. You just talk to the Mercenary commander and change their equipment.
    I think that now, it is more valuable to sell to the slave master than the randsom guy.

    You can skip the tutorial by pressing tab.

    If you still want to play a female character, just Google it. I found this :
    http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,168704.0.html

    Now you can attack merchants without loosing honor to make a lot of money, it's the best so far for me.

    GG !

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