XP go for DX10; technological hurdles cleared

Robert Hallock 11 Jul, 2007 at 4:55pm ET Article published in Tech

We generally don’t post small blurbs as a primary news piece, however this one is bound to incense a lot of people (Including myself), so we’re running it.

Essentially, DX10 only had one hurdle that XP could not clear. The memory for the graphics card had to have the potential to be virtualized, and that is something XP can not do. However, NVIDIA’s driver teams could not figure out how to do this, so the DX10 standard has been modified to make this optional. Everything else DX10 calls for can be done on Windows XP, which now means that the only reason DX10 is not on XP is due to the almighty greenback.

See here.

Comments

11 Jul 2007 ~ 5:45pm BuddyJ So does that mean Shadowrun will be playable on XP (again)?
11 Jul 2007 ~ 5:52pm Thrax Shadowrun has been cracked to run on XP, but I don't MS and Falling Leaf Studios are going to do it themselves.
11 Jul 2007 ~ 7:36pm Qeldroma < Thinks someone may make a DX10 engine for XP whether MS like it or not.
12 Jul 2007 ~ 10:11am Zuntar Gee, you think MS was trying to push people to use Vista?
12 Jul 2007 ~ 1:13pm GooD

Zuntar wrote:

Gee, you think MS was trying to push people to use Vista?

You must be kidding
12 Jul 2007 ~ 8:50pm Your-Amish-Daddy The way I see it, Microsoft is shooting themselves in the foot. Sure, they'll get the retards to upgrade to vista, or the ultra-hardcore gamers after they buy a few things first so they can meet it's steep requirements for Aero, but the intelligent people will see Linux, Primary Ubuntu and FC7 to be a very good move. I can't run FC7 right now because of some internal complications on my network, mainly the fact that I am the data host on it, and they're too stupid to use FTP clients (Faster than setting up SMB shares.) and with the rush of popularity, applications like Wine and Cedega will actually get noticed and the teams will see a reason to make their software alot more powerful. The only thing I couldn't get wine to run, was a chat client that I've been known to use in years past and that's it. I could play HL1:S, CSS, whatever with terrible framerates because my video card doesn't have full support yet (Even though it's supposed to in 8.38.1). I've been on Vista. It's no walk in the park. The user control crap is the most annoying thing in the world since Tone Loc.
12 Jul 2007 ~ 11:35pm Thrax For the people who would move to Vista for DX10, Linux is <b>not</b> an option. Those people will remain on XP. For the 99% of the rest of the world, Linux is a frightening thing that they will never, ever, ever, ever try or, more likely, have never heard of.
13 Jul 2007 ~ 12:21am airbornflght I mentioned putting ubunto on my parents computer, and after I got through telling them ubunto was basically unix/linux they got all mad telling me to put windows back on it. Yeh, People are just too scared of change.
13 Jul 2007 ~ 12:57am GrayFox

Your Amish Daddy wrote:

The way I see it, Microsoft is shooting themselves in the foot. Sure, they'll get the retards to upgrade to vista, or the ultra-hardcore gamers after they buy a few things first so they can meet it's steep requirements for Aero,

Very well said. However Aero doesn't need much ... But GAMING with vista at the same time does... (Your midrange gaming rig from 2 or 3 gens ago will run vista nicely ... as long as you don't try to play games).

Your Amish Daddy wrote:

but the intelligent people will see Linux, Primary Ubuntu and FC7 to be a very good move.

No offense but deadrat/deadrat based distor's in the consumer market is dying, People are migrating to ubuntu left right and center. I predict support from developer's (That make desktop applications) will be much smaller by 2015 for deadrat. Debian based distro's such as Ubuntu are the clear future of linux.
(Deadrat=redhat)

I for one am very happy of the success of ubuntu the more support ubuntu gets the more debian gets since ubuntu is basicly a hacked up noob friendly version of debian.

Your Amish Daddy wrote:

I can't run FC7 right now because of some internal complications on my network, mainly the fact that I am the data host on it, and they're too stupid to use FTP clients (Faster than setting up SMB shares.)

Err SMB is piss simple to deploy. I think theres even a graphical interface in gnome for it. (At least in ubuntu.. I haven't looked for it before in debian.. The command line way is easy enough.)

Your Amish Daddy wrote:

and with the rush of popularity, applications like Wine and Cedega will actually get noticed and the teams will see a reason to make their software alot more powerful.

Keep in mind WINE/CEDEGA is not the solution its a work around we need native binary's. Or wine needs to ship with more DLL's from windows machines, its a pain to track down someone with a windows box who's willing to send me .dll files. (64bit version's of windows's .DLL files don't work)

Your Amish Daddy wrote:

I could play HL1:S, CSS, whatever with terrible framerates because my video card doesn't have full support yet (Even though it's supposed to in 8.38.1).

Thats odd under wine my frame rate is fine (About the same as in windows)....... but it randomly exits :S. (I have a ASUS 7900GS TOP)

Your Amish Daddy wrote:

I've been on Vista. It's no walk in the park. The user control crap is the most annoying thing in the world since Tone Loc.

Microsoft needs to overhaul the entire OS and user interface vista is just more proof of that. The new start menu really SUCKS.

UAC is annoying as hell and any user that needs UAC will click allow anyways because it harasses them far too much. Apple and Linux have the right idea requiring the users password (Or root password if they don't have sudo) For anything that requires privileges outside of userland. Nothing should need outside of userland unless there installing a driver,virus, rootkit or making a major change to there operating system such as installing updates.

Also Thrax check out ubuntu for a week as long as you avoid wine you will notice its as userfriendly as OS X for everything but installing applications.

Also Im quite confident a 10 year old autistic child could install ubuntu festy fawn (7.04) and dual boot with windows without encountering difficulty's.

Ive switched my dad to ubuntu he couldn't even work when in windows outlook yet he can use evolution perfectly. He loves ubuntu and he notices no difference between microsoft's office and Sun's OpenOffice (Although he didn't use it for more then spell check and a word processor). Also after the first 2 days I haven't had to give him any support (Something I was contently having to do when he was running windows.

If ubuntu had more support and they had a easier way to install applications (Like how OS X has) they could enter the mainstream.

Heres a quick description how to install an application on a mac.

To install a application in mac os all the user does is download the disc image, double click to mount it, it then drag the .app to /applications. Running it is as simple as double clicking.

Whats happening behind the scenes

Theres a folder in / called applications. Applications has 777 permissions this means ANYONE can Read/Write or execute files from there. (The first 7 is the owner in this case root, the second is group and third is everyone else.)

.app files are accuracy a folder containing the application along with any library's it needs (Microsoft calls there library's .DLL's). Apon first launch the librarys are copied to a folder in the users home directory called Library (I think that was the folders name I don't have my mac here to check).

The disc image's are DMG format this is apples own proprietary format its basically a compressed disc image (Kinda like a zipped iso).

When the application launches all of this happens behind the scenes so the user doesn't have to know/care whats going on and the application "just works".

airbornflght wrote:

I mentioned putting ubunto on my parents computer, and after I got through telling them ubunto was basically unix/linux they got all mad telling me to put windows back on it. Yeh, People are just too scared of change.

My dad was resistant to change at first as well after using it for a while he grew to love it and now want's nothing to do with windows.

Thrax wrote:

For the people who would move to Vista for DX10, Linux is <b>not</b> an option. Those people will remain on XP.

Your completely right there Linux will never be a gaming platform unless apple gains more support in the gaming market (If apple gains more support developers will be tempted to port there games to linux since porting games/apps from OS X to linux is piss simple (Excluding user interfaces they need to be redesigned).
13 Jul 2007 ~ 1:14am macdude425 Ubuntu is doing to Linux what Apple has done to OPENSTEP - pretty it up and sell it to noobs. And they're doing quite well, mind you.

From here on out, it's all about the consumer. And, well, developers, developers, developers, developers.
13 Jul 2007 ~ 8:05am kryyst I love ubuntu, I love my mac even more. But the reality is that ubuntu or any flavor of linux is still a long ways away from seriously replacing windows in the desktop market. The problem is that the general public doesn't really know anything that isn't windows. They know, that when they go to a store it'll be a windows machine, they know when they go to the software shelves it'll be windows based software. They don't understand the entire linux culture or how it works. Until linux seriously starts pushing a couple flavors of linux in a marketing sense it won't be anything more then a hobbiest OS, and we are all hobbiests.

While I fully agree that almost anyone can set up Ubuntu now through the cd's the problem is that they then have to get other things like automatix, ubuntu studio, openoffice etc... and most people would stare at their desktop and not know where to go. Looking up things on the internet is a foreign concept to them and even if they do understand that - they wouldn't know what to look for.

Linux need commercial backing on two fronts. First the OS has to be marketed, much the way Jobs put MAC into the minds of the public. Then there has to be commercial games and apps written and available on the store shelves. People who don't understand the system are frightened when they don't see branding and availability. You tell them to get it you have to go on the net, download the cd, make a cd install it, then go back to the net hunt for software, read FAQ's on what and how to setup programs etc...etc... you've lost your market.

I've done several ubuntu installs for parents and relatives because all they need is inet, email, office - the standard package. Generally they couldn't be happier. However I still have to support them. Not in that they are breaking ubuntu like they would windows. But when they want to do X that used to work under windows and it no longer does. Or god help me at tax time.

Currently the dual boot solution is not an answer for the gen pop. Because each time they have to dual boot back into windows to run whatever, they are more likely to just stay in windows to avoid the hassle.

Currently if you want to push a non-windows alternative OS X is the smarter choice. It has a public front, there is software readily available for it and it's much more friendly of an experience then linux. You buy a mac you plug it in and you are done. The people I've talked going mac as a windows alternative never look back.
14 Jul 2007 ~ 11:52am drasnor

GrayFox wrote:

No offense but deadrat/deadrat based distor's in the consumer market is dying, People are migrating to ubuntu left right and center. I predict support from developer's (That make desktop applications) will be much smaller by 2015 for deadrat. Debian based distro's such as Ubuntu are the clear future of linux.

The only people that still use deadrat are enteprise (for the paid support) and newbies that don't know better. The package manager is what defines a distro and deadrat's package manager is garbage. Sorry if I just knocked your favorite distro, but seriously fedora-wielding newbies make up the bulk of my Linux support calls. They're all smiles after I introduce Ubuntu though.

GrayFox wrote:

Err SMB is piss simple to deploy.

SMB always gives me trouble. NMB never works and permissions for share-level security never allow write access on a Linux SMB server regardless of my configuration, even using SWAT to configure. We get threads like this in Alt OS all the time so I hardly believe it's an isolated incident (you could write an article, hint hint). I tend to use NFS where possible instead.

GrayFox wrote:

Thats odd under wine my frame rate is fine (About the same as in windows)....... but it randomly exits :S. (I have a ASUS 7900GS TOP)

Look at his sig, he's got an ATI board. ATI's Linux performance is atrocious. Next time support a company that bothers to optimize their non-Windows drivers.

GrayFox wrote:

He loves ubuntu and he notices no difference between microsoft's office and Sun's OpenOffice (Although he didn't use it for more then spell check and a word processor).

Semantics note: Sun's office package is StarOffice and is a commercial fork of the OpenOffice.org project. I notice the difference between OO.o and MS Office though, I find OO.o to be better in every regard. I found the outlining and styles features in OO.o Writer to be much more intuitive to use than MS Word's. OO.o includes a vector drawing package (Draw) akin to Draw in the ClarisWorks/AppleWorks products that is phenomenally more useful than PowerPoint or Word when designing logos and drafting flowcharts or block diagrams. My presentations take less time to prepare in OO.o's Impress package than in PowerPoint with better results. I haven't seen anything that Excel can do that OO.o's Calc can't.

GrayFox wrote:

If ubuntu had more support and they had a easier way to install applications (Like how OS X has) they could enter the mainstream.

The trick with new Linux users is breaking the habit of going to the web for software and driver updates. You can go to the web to find out about them, but you need to get them through your package manager. The package manager is a unified software installation and updater for everything on the machine, like Microsoft Update does for MS products but offering new software as well.

kryyst wrote:

While I fully agree that almost anyone can set up Ubuntu now through the cd's the problem is that they then have to get other things like automatix, ubuntu studio, openoffice etc... and most people would stare at their desktop and not know where to go. Looking up things on the internet is a foreign concept to them and even if they do understand that - they wouldn't know what to look for.

So help them out. They probably didn't learn Windows by themselves in the first place.

kryyst wrote:

Linux need commercial backing on two fronts. First the OS has to be marketed, much the way Jobs put MAC into the minds of the public. Then there has to be commercial games and apps written and available on the store shelves. People who don't understand the system are frightened when they don't see branding and availability. You tell them to get it you have to go on the net, download the cd, make a cd install it, then go back to the net hunt for software, read FAQ's on what and how to setup programs etc...etc... you've lost your market.

Linux has always had commercial backing, just not to the "normal people" market. As you have it, the make or break proposition is "Can they get it installed?" Remember that most people can't install Windows either without consulting their neighborhood geek. If it didn't come preloaded on their machine they probably aren't going to use it. It's possible now to buy PC's with Linux preloaded. Next time they think they need a new PC you can always slip one of these in. The cheap model looks outdated by Windows standards but I'll bet my monitor against your mouse that it's a capable Linux box. Did I mention that my Linux workstation at work is a Dell Dimension T500 (1.3GHz Tualatin Celeron in a slocket, 512MB PC100, 64MB Mobility Radeon 9000 in AGP2x slot)? It does juuuust fine. The bit about software goes back to how the process of finding and installing software on Linux is completely different than Windows. It's just something you learn.

Speaking of learning, here's an idea for y'all: I believe that a nontrivial number of our older population of computer users (read: the people that didn't want one in the first place but learned just enough to get by) were dragged kicking and screaming by their computer-saavy kids. The kids knew whatever the school had. In my case that was Apple Macintosh and the first home PC I managed the wheedle my parents for was a Macintosh LC II. My old school's IT department did not take kindly to Linux machines in their domain but I could see a scenario where a more forward-thinking group of administrators allowed students to learn the Right Way . Gotta get 'em while they're young, you see.

-drasnor
14 Jul 2007 ~ 2:56pm Your-Amish-Daddy Yeah man. You tell'em.
14 Jul 2007 ~ 4:49pm kryyst You keep that dream a live you wild and crazy kid. But until you can walk into Best Buy or EBGames and easily install and run that newest game on your linux box it'll never take off. Linux as much as the minority screams and kicks is still a hobbiest OS for the desktop. That's not a knock against linux I use it all the time. It's just a reflection on the current situation.
14 Jul 2007 ~ 5:18pm GrayFox

drasnor wrote:

SMB always gives me trouble. NMB never works and permissions for share-level security never allow write access on a Linux SMB server regardless of my configuration, even using SWAT to configure. We get threads like this in Alt OS all the time so I hardly believe it's an isolated incident (you could write an article, hint hint). I tend to use NFS where possible instead.

I have a rough outline ready but I never went into details or talked about premissions.