Straight_ManGeeky, in my own wayNaples, FLIcrontian
edited March 2004
Also, hibernate is mostly used with laptops, they shut down HD, and can go to just a trickle of voltage to maintain RAM (everything else off, RAM is refreshed to static state stored in it when Windows hibernates (BIOS in desktop thinks of this as S3\STR-- aka Suspend To RAM)). Only SOME desktops can really hibernate and then recover well. Those that allow and recover from S3 STR, HD and all removable drives are off, and have video cards that will wake up from OFF can do what laptops and some desktops can really do and what Windows calls hibernation. For laptops, the advantage is not drawing much at all on battery. But for desktops, syncing settings can get complex.
The "HowTo and what is difference between what Windows calls PM states versus BIOS norms" essay will not appear here....
Jhon D.
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Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited March 2004
Hibernation and STR are NOT the same thing. Hibernation saves the contents of RAM to the hard disk and turns the computer off. There is no power use what-so-ever in hibernation, any more than there is from just shutting the computer down.
And I have never, ever, ever had any issues with hibernation on any ACPI-compliant PC, desktop or notebook.
hibernate copys everthing to the HD then shuts down
next boot up it moves it from HD to RAM
stand by boots faster tho
S1 power management does what you are calling hibernate. S3 does a state copy to RAM, shuts down HD if set to, shuts down video if that is chosen, shuts down CPU if so set. Windows calls BOTH Hibernate, Windows considers itself shut down. Laptops that are modern can do S1 OR S3 by settings in BIOS. Stand by shuts down video, saves to HD, but can be awakened by Windows processes-- CPU is at a reduced state, but live.
John D.-- whose desktop\tower boxes do a modified S3, more like a Windows sleep state but with folding going. video output is OFF. HD live, CPU live.
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Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited March 2004
I'm afraid you are confused. Taken from the ACPI specification .pdf file:
2.4 Sleeping State Definitions
Sleeping states (Sx states) are types of sleeping states within the global sleeping state, G1. The Sx states are briefly defined below. For a detailed definition of the system behavior within each Sx state, see section 7.3.4, “System \_Sx States.” For a detailed definition of the transitions between each of the Sx states, see section 9.1, “Sleeping States.”
S1 Sleeping State
The S1 sleeping state is a low wake latency sleeping state. In this state, no system context is lost (CPU or chip set) and hardware maintains all system context.
S2 Sleeping State
The S2 sleeping state is a low wake latency sleeping state. This state is similar to the S1 sleeping state except that the CPU and system cache context is lost (the OS is responsible for maintaining the caches and CPU context). Control starts from the processor’s reset vector after the wake event.
S3 Sleeping State
The S3 sleeping state is a low wake latency sleeping state where all system context is lost except system memory. CPU, cache, and chip set context are lost in this state. Hardware maintains memory context and restores some CPU and L2 configuration context. Control starts from the processor’s reset
vector after the wake event.
S4 Sleeping State HIBERNATION
The S4 sleeping state is the lowest power, longest wake latency sleeping state supported by ACPI. In order to reduce power to a minimum, it is assumed that the hardware platform has powered off all devices. Platform context is maintained.
S5 Soft Off State SHUT DOWN
The S5 state is similar to the S4 state except that the OS does not save any context. The system is in the “soft” off state and requires a complete boot when it wakes. Software uses a different state value to distinguish between the S5 state and the S4 state to allow for initial boot operations within the BIOS to distinguish whether or not the boot is going to wake from a saved memory image.
Straight_ManGeeky, in my own wayNaples, FLIcrontian
edited March 2004
BIOS Sleep = Windows Standby. CPU up, typically, power to video card, no video signal to monitor, HD up though it might be spun down it is not off at controller voltage level.
Modified S3 the way I do it, Windows regards as Standby. Folding happens all night with the power event mods I have programmed. The Barton Box's Gainward 4800 SE card needs a VGA BIOS call to wake up, the GF2 MX 400 on the P4 does not need this.
S1\Power Off Suspend = hibernate. In an S1 Suspend, HD is off, CPU off, Windows state is on HD. Wakeup is 30 sec to 2-3 min depending on computer. Early computers used only S1, soem old PSUs do not supply standby RAM voltage for Suspend to RAM right for S3 toi be used, RAM decays, box has to be powered up at switch-- but this is a HW capability and settings problem, not a PM in Windows problem. Older refs will talk about this being the ONLY hibernate, no longer true (since about 1999-2000 from mfr POV, since about 2000-2001 for full in the field S3 in most motherboards and other major components), see below.
S3\Suspend To RAM = hibernate if BIOS defaults for S3 are used. ONLY RAM and BIOS are powered in full S3. CPU is in dormant state, HD is spun down and powered down, video card power is absent. Only power draw in a full S3 is a trickle to refresh RAM and maintain suspended or hiberante state in RAM and then Windows wakes up in half the time it took with S1 to 1\5th the time.
John D.-- with a very summarized Cliff's Notes, the essay would be 20 or more screens to cover mere basics.
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KwitkoSheriff of Banning (Retired)By the thing near the stuffIcrontian
edited March 2004
Hey, Ageek, who are we to argue with you when the proof has been taken right from the ACPI specifications? Obviously you're right and the standards group that designed the spec is wrong.
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Straight_ManGeeky, in my own wayNaples, FLIcrontian
True, that is the HARDWARE side spec. Windows 98 through XP called S1 (earlier spec, much earlier, pre-ACPI as we know it now) and S3 suspend Hibernate, word use was NOT per ACPI spec, PREDATED current spec. BIOS Sleep is called Standby in Windows. Closest is S1 or S2 in BIOS and ACPI specs. According to Windows setup possibilities, desktops CAN hibernate-- not according to ACPI.
Desktops cannot typically S5 except with a power switch event, they CAN instead S3 with a power switch event if BIOS is so programmed. S4 is not common in Laptops that are "built for XP." Nor is S2 very common. Desktops know only S1, a somewhat modified S2, and S3, and S5 via true power off.
John D.-- Who says "no, I am not confused, WINDOWS is."
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Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited March 2004
S5 is a system shutdown. And, show me where in that .pdf it says that desktops are not supposed to be able to hibernate.
NiGHTS
San Diego Icrontian
Comments
The "HowTo and what is difference between what Windows calls PM states versus BIOS norms" essay will not appear here....
Jhon D.
And I have never, ever, ever had any issues with hibernation on any ACPI-compliant PC, desktop or notebook.
hibernate copys everthing to the HD then shuts down
next boot up it moves it from HD to RAM
stand by boots faster tho
S1 power management does what you are calling hibernate. S3 does a state copy to RAM, shuts down HD if set to, shuts down video if that is chosen, shuts down CPU if so set. Windows calls BOTH Hibernate, Windows considers itself shut down. Laptops that are modern can do S1 OR S3 by settings in BIOS. Stand by shuts down video, saves to HD, but can be awakened by Windows processes-- CPU is at a reduced state, but live.
John D.-- whose desktop\tower boxes do a modified S3, more like a Windows sleep state but with folding going. video output is OFF. HD live, CPU live.
http://www.acpi.info/DOWNLOADS/ACPIspec-2-0c.pdf
Read it.
Modified S3 the way I do it, Windows regards as Standby. Folding happens all night with the power event mods I have programmed. The Barton Box's Gainward 4800 SE card needs a VGA BIOS call to wake up, the GF2 MX 400 on the P4 does not need this.
S1\Power Off Suspend = hibernate. In an S1 Suspend, HD is off, CPU off, Windows state is on HD. Wakeup is 30 sec to 2-3 min depending on computer. Early computers used only S1, soem old PSUs do not supply standby RAM voltage for Suspend to RAM right for S3 toi be used, RAM decays, box has to be powered up at switch-- but this is a HW capability and settings problem, not a PM in Windows problem. Older refs will talk about this being the ONLY hibernate, no longer true (since about 1999-2000 from mfr POV, since about 2000-2001 for full in the field S3 in most motherboards and other major components), see below.
S3\Suspend To RAM = hibernate if BIOS defaults for S3 are used. ONLY RAM and BIOS are powered in full S3. CPU is in dormant state, HD is spun down and powered down, video card power is absent. Only power draw in a full S3 is a trickle to refresh RAM and maintain suspended or hiberante state in RAM and then Windows wakes up in half the time it took with S1 to 1\5th the time.
John D.-- with a very summarized Cliff's Notes, the essay would be 20 or more screens to cover mere basics.
True, that is the HARDWARE side spec. Windows 98 through XP called S1 (earlier spec, much earlier, pre-ACPI as we know it now) and S3 suspend Hibernate, word use was NOT per ACPI spec, PREDATED current spec. BIOS Sleep is called Standby in Windows. Closest is S1 or S2 in BIOS and ACPI specs. According to Windows setup possibilities, desktops CAN hibernate-- not according to ACPI.
Desktops cannot typically S5 except with a power switch event, they CAN instead S3 with a power switch event if BIOS is so programmed. S4 is not common in Laptops that are "built for XP." Nor is S2 very common. Desktops know only S1, a somewhat modified S2, and S3, and S5 via true power off.
John D.-- Who says "no, I am not confused, WINDOWS is."