Oh God Why!?!?! This is just crazyness.....
Well I just put together a rough system to put to final test if the Radeon 9700 Pro I have is dieing or not.
After 2 runs in 3D Mark 2001 330 it did not faulter.
I suppose this particular model has issues with the K8T800 chipset? But the issue I have with that is that I know others with the SAME stuff have no issues.
I am currently running:
ABIT IS7
P4 2.4B(stock cooling... but the heatsink is just laying on the CPU lol)
256MB DDR KingMax(crap for ram) PC3200 but only running PC2700.
TTGI 520W PSU
Maxtor ATA133 40GB HDD
Lite-On DVD-ROM
AND of course the ATi Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB
The system the Card was in originally was...
*ASUS K8V DLX MB
*MSI K8T Neo MB
Athlon64 3000+ 2GHz with th best Zalman HSF there is for these...
1GB PC3200 Kingston DDR
Powercolor(i think) 500W PSU(came with case, the voltages seem steady and good)
WD 120GB SATA HDD 8MB Cache
Lite-On DVD-ROM and CD-RW
Well right now I have half the mind to take the TTGI PSU and RETEST(I have tried it before) it and the ATi card in the Athlon64 system in replacement of the powercolor(i think it's powercolor) PSU. See if that helps any.
But I have done that before, and I recall it not helping. Plus this powercolor PSU looks cool
it's transparent.
After 2 runs in 3D Mark 2001 330 it did not faulter.
I suppose this particular model has issues with the K8T800 chipset? But the issue I have with that is that I know others with the SAME stuff have no issues.
I am currently running:
ABIT IS7
P4 2.4B(stock cooling... but the heatsink is just laying on the CPU lol)
256MB DDR KingMax(crap for ram) PC3200 but only running PC2700.
TTGI 520W PSU
Maxtor ATA133 40GB HDD
Lite-On DVD-ROM
AND of course the ATi Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB
The system the Card was in originally was...
*ASUS K8V DLX MB
*MSI K8T Neo MB
Athlon64 3000+ 2GHz with th best Zalman HSF there is for these...
1GB PC3200 Kingston DDR
Powercolor(i think) 500W PSU(came with case, the voltages seem steady and good)
WD 120GB SATA HDD 8MB Cache
Lite-On DVD-ROM and CD-RW
Well right now I have half the mind to take the TTGI PSU and RETEST(I have tried it before) it and the ATi card in the Athlon64 system in replacement of the powercolor(i think it's powercolor) PSU. See if that helps any.
But I have done that before, and I recall it not helping. Plus this powercolor PSU looks cool
it's transparent. 0
Comments
I just ran 3D Mark 2001 without any problems. Using the TTGI PSU instead of the one that came with the case.
It doesn't make too much sence too me right now, as to how it didn't work before but now it does.
"Computers"
Well... this is my unexplained universe. But at least I now have 2 Computers! I'll just see if I can sell off any spare parts I have to make just enough money to pay rent :P
I'm here to encourage you to belay the problem solving efforts just to boost yourself into proving you can solve anything.
ati has been entirely comatose, no responses, no work done, on issues I've been raising since November 2003. I currently have 3 tickets open, lately, that I'm keeping track of, and have not bothered with the other older ones, but enough is enough.
Got a 9600xt in Nov and it stutters in games, stutters in dvds, and is no great shakes. I went through 5 various versions of cat drivers upto 4.5 and could not get farcry to work properly. It's in a gigabyte mb (who are supposed to be "partners" with ati.)
Had picked up a 9800pro 2 months ago and could not get it to get agp anything except agp4 with the 3.4 cat drivers. ati could not be bothered to address any of the complete silliness I had to deal with so brought the card back for a full refund, (hate wasting my time like that though)
Why are we having to turn down our settings for what is supposed to be new technology?!?! Why are we waiting for "support" call reasponses from ati!?!?! Why are we waiting for useless driver updates.
Boy they sure can rush out a new product in a hurry. But you watch, when the price drops and people start buying it, they'll be in exactly the same boat.
I will not be buying anything ati anymore, no matter what rock bottom price their chip sets drop to.
It's all marketing and little substance, why should we waste out time fixing their poor technology?
Ohms. We have 400+ members who care. Some of us are career IT people. Others of us want our boxes working. We cannot each solve every problem, but with over 400+ members we can many times have one person who has handled before what another person is having happen today. No one of us can handle 100% of problems. But, with 400+ users worth of experience, we can handle a very large percentage of them or at least help to figure out how to determine wassup.
You do not see us saying all problems will be solved, but we can solve many together. Many of our members are folders for our folding team, and we are team 9 in ranking of thousands of teams. Folding requires stable boxes, and is a volunteer effort. We have a double reason, if not a quadruple reason, to work WITH each other here and this site is NOT making a profit. It was formed by folks who hung out at a site called Icrontic (and folks who hung out elsewhere joined in in making it a very quickly growing forum and news site, it has been up for a tib over one year now), and the folks who formed it and invested in dedicated servers (the owners of this domain have had to build three, each faster than the last, to keep up with growth during that first year plus a few days) and provided hosting for it HOPE it will break even some day. We do not even ask for donations.
Me, I am just a member-- proud to be one, and host my own sites on the site hosting service provided by one of the three co-owners of this site. If you want to know what one member here has done and how long he has been in IT, try looking at http://www.johndanielsonii.com/ . That member happens to be me.
John_D
ATi's tech support sucks, but their RMA department is good. Of course, the solution to this is simple: Don't buy built-by-ATi cards if it's a problem for you. Get ASUS cards instead.
Also, I'll point out that I've got 2 9700 Pros, an 8500, a 9000, 2 7500s, and 3 Rage 128s, as well as numerous Rage 128s, 7500s, 9600s, 9700s, and 9800s in machines at the office. I've only ever had one problem- my 8500 died inexplicably. However, I requested an RMA number from ATi and had a new one in a few weeks. Just don't make the huge critical thinking error that you're headed towards- "ATi is bad because I've had a few bad cards" is not a valid conclusion, considering the number of people that don't have problems. Also, if you've never tried the cards in other systems, I suspect that the problem may lie elsewhere.
We could play with the config as well and he changes may make a temporary change in the problem, I am wholly convinced it is poor products and shoddy QA processes.
The whole lack of any responses from ati is really a bad idea for them. Tried getting a hold of Dave Orton and e-mailing their PR people and support managers with still no responses.
In fact investigations have shown the last CEO was arrested and turfed for fudging their books. Fudge the performance, fudge the books what's the difference between a company out to rip everyone off and incompetence. and have they given any indication they care for anything but $$$
Given the issues that arise on a search, any search, the responses on other forums, associates, etc it is truly a game that ati may be playing with cunning efficency.
Because some do not have problems here does not mean that they don't exist.
Many are "qualified" to discuss things here by virtue of their self image, but I have long past the need to make myself feel better by fixing what are vendor problems. That's the old way of doing things, the waste of time way. hate to disappoint those that need the fix of commenting on stuff.
And you can be very sure I will not be into anything ati.
Then yeah, I'd just switch to a 3rd party manufacturer. I can't recommend switching to nVidia, because the image quality is lower, I cannot stand the driver interface (the new interface on the latest catalyst control panel bugs me, too, just not as much), the nVidia cards are slower than ATi's stuff, and the whole 2 slots/2 power connectors thing is absurd. But I have a preference for ATi's cards (not that you could tell, right?
To fix your problem, unless other folks have same gear and same issue, really takes modelling. The support layers have to literally set up a box like yours and try to make it do what you are having happen. If enough people have same problem, then ATI answers with driver fixes and docs them in downloads area and areas with fix info by driver version.
ATI uses beta drivers a lot to test out fixes, and proof them, for its own drivers which are mostly for cards made fully by them. Frequently, when they get a major set of complaints, they model what caused the thing and release pin-point betas for same or Betas that include fix for that. If they say beta on download sites, it is because the drivers need to be tested in field to see how globally they work-- but they are test drivers.
ATI cannot own and run all possible machine combos, they cannot afford to do this at all-- they need users to talk to them. Neither can NVIDIA afford to model all issues. BUT, NVIDIA gets lots of feedback in both forums and newsgroups and in support requests from users. That helps them zero down issues, and in some cases do so faster.
Yes that would be great, hitting the nail on the head before it's out of the box, but the contention here is of a very serious nature as well, that the businesses are using tech sites to offload the responsibilities of taking that extra insurance to deliver solid products.
It is great we all are here to help each other, something I wished I saw as much of on the street, opening doors, giving up seats, smiling, 'talking' - all stuff that is much easier and less time consuming. Anyway, the reasons for societal inflections in that vector are subject for another topic.
At what point do yall, does anyone, decide that this product was not ready for prime time, or is not as robust, or has poor support? Months after its design or release?
And if support, or complete lack thereof, is conceeded, what other things will the web people absorb and expend their resources on and not realize they are getting taken?
I'm more for aiding when and where I can, but putting a more proactive thrust on the accountability elements of oems and duty to the public.
Sure we could have the buzz of, "if they're no good they won't stay in buisness", but then that depends on the quality and quantity of the bamboozle.
To clear it I am not anti-business in any sense of the notion. I am anti-"getting ripped off" and the resource suck to fix the myriad of problems is ridiculous.
We could take the busines approach and sound very logical and straight thinking. But this is not a small business, mom-pop shop, or a struggling do-good, responsible entity.
I could tell you that if it were mine to do, I would be running pretty well every set up, it's high tech isn't it, it's supposed to be cutting edge and value oriented. If you count the number of pennies yall make and multiply that by the actual hours and resources expended to derive a solution, it is appalling.
A great hobby for some, but like I say, I am well past the fun and need. Imagine, if you will, the market share that could be captured by ensuring people are aware that the problems with given <x> technology are minimal and support is "real" - then do the cost benfit analysis.
I suspect internal politics and rampant marketeers could be holding the company hostage with their skewed, wee-minded visions of the way things 'are'.
My intent is obvious in ferreting out so many solutions to real time wasters and attesting to the unwillingness to change the way we see things and how we develop our resources.
The problems are real and still exist and, while may be remdiable in some ways, expect the manufacturers to get a greater awareness and develop more consumer oreinted strategies.
Ever been a beta tester? Ever signed a NDA? I think we deserve better than what we are getting for our dollar.
So, what you're saying (basically) is that companies (or ATi at least) are deliberately releasing products with problems?
I put it more in the neighborhood of rushing things out, not taking the duty of care in QA, having less than a vested interest in the situations that may occur from engineering less than robust technology, incremental changes (tweaks) that reduce the stability and offering it up as newest and improved-est, and perhaps even reducing the support algorithm.
That 9800pro I had was a lump of slag and that support function is dead and cold.
Sorry I had to try thinking while I could with the onset of this "grippe" (flu/cold/bug)
This is like a 1st generation or rev.1 Radeon 9700 Pro, it was used in a Review/Article way back, so it is old, and was used and "old" when I traded for it. I also found that when I changed out my PSU, which I had thought I had done already, all the problems just faded away... I now play at 1280x1024 with 4x AA and 16x AF with all quality settings cranked up both in driver settings and in game and I play wanderfully, couldn't love this card anymore.
FYI, I play Unreal 2004, City of Heros, Dungeon Seige(max of 1024x768, but settings won't let me go higher), Lords of Everquest, Planetside, and others... none of which give me _any_ problems. Every now_and_then though I get an odd and sudden crash, I'll get a blankscreen, and if I wait I get a recover telling me my Radeon went ape on me, but that happens so far maybe once a week, but I also keep this puppy running 24/7 doing all kinds of stuff on it. Once a week isn't bad to me, I ain't running a server or anything.
Did this ever happen on my NVidia system? YES.. NVidia has given me just as many problems, and guess what people blamed then? I have noticed many NVidia Disiples tend to also be a Intel fanboy, so they blamed it on my Athlon. BUT! I have both Intel and AMD, and both ATi and NVidia and sometimes(only becuase the 2 are too different to replicate issues on) it will do the same thing either way.
People who say that Intel is more stable or compadible, or that ATi has crappier drivers and all that and that NVidia is the better way if you want stability.... WHATEVER, don't care. I tell them to go buy whatever they feel is best for them, and I will stick with what works for me. Personally, I have yet to see any proof that either way is better, until now ATi with it's radeon have done nothing but kick ass, and before this 9700 Pro all I had was NVidia, never used ATi before.
Anough ranting though
ohm--i know this is a simple fix, but it worked for me....up your agp voltage to 1.6v for you 9600xt. My 9600pro would crap out if i left the default agp voltage of 1.5v. You might have already tried it, but it is worth a shot if you haven't!
1.55-1.6 is not too much for a Radeon in most boxes, and the more Graphics RAM the card has on it the greater the wattage load. Older PSUs were built for what was needed when they were built and designed. Proportionately, they supplied more 5 and 12 volt load capacity than the newer ones, which supply more 3.3 and 5 in amps than they do 12 V compared to the older PSUs.
The older motherboards dropped down on the mainboard from 5 V mostly, the new boards drop down from an ideal 3.3 Volts DC into motherboard much more in terms of wattage supply ability. The lower voltage the CPU is, the more likely the mainboard is going to draw on 3.3 Volt leg right from a modern PSU to satisfy the video and CPU. This leg is the HARDEST leg to keep at real close to ideal also, if you overdraw it voltage actual will drop. Can happen to RAM, GRAM, CPU, AND video card all at once. One reason that the draws in on PSUs are so dang high is that the inefficiency in dropping to 3.3 is also highest. controlling that is wasteful also.
So a newer PSU can REALLY help a lot with flaky box that has had a newer motherboard and video or RAM upgrade and video upgrade stuck in it. Absolutely right, RWB-- checking PSU and trying a better and newer PSU is very, VERY, GOOD idea. If you have a PSU that is labelled 2.0 with no three on the end of that spec (ATX 2.03 is what you want for modern gear), and it is not labelled P4 ready or Intel approved for P4 chips or AMD approved or ready, its time for a new PSU if you want hyper-modern or quite recent other things in box. Most P4 approved PSUs that are rated for Northwoods or Prescotts can handle AMD chipset and CPU and modern video card needs well. Not all the AMD apporved ones can handle modrern video card, lots of RAM and GRAM, and Opterons or Athlon FXs well, those that can typically can handle a P4 also.
Some folks are going to say that RAM is drawn off the 5 Volt, I just know it-- but, cheaper PSUs use a shared pool of wattage between 5 and 3.3 Volt legs. The ones that do NOT do this are real expensive or hard to figure out what is really best for buck. I use a Channel Well Technology OEM 425 Watt stated limit PSU here to run my Prescott box-- it is not humming or whistling, fan is relatively noiseless, AND the P4 Prescott box runs almost totally 24\7 in a very warm environment. TigerDirect sells it for $29.99 plus shipping last I looked. DANG GOOD PSU for the money.
Like I said there are numerous things that I could do, that anyone could do, but should not have to especially at that dollar value.
Never had a problems with my nvidia. Doesn't mena there aren't millons of them but I beleive that it is time to earmark the bad expereinces with ati and move over to nvidia again.
Kent
That's just what I expected to see, next you'll be in here talking about how great your new 600984304958 Hair Dryer thing with hacked drivers does on 3Dmark 2096. All nVidia fans are the same, everyone of you. There's alot of people out there, myself included, who have NEVER had ANY problems with their ATi cards... Maybe you can't build a good computer? Maybe you don't know all the tweaking tricks? Maybe your PCI slot on that Dell you own is teh sux? I dont know, either way take your ATi bashing somewhere, we don't want to hear it. By all means stick around and at least TRY to be helpful. Alot of people around here don't like intel, but their aren't that many of us bashing it, except maybe Thrax. So yea, next time get to the point, dont beat around the bush cause I saw through it in your first post....
Isn't this just exactly typical, coke/pepsi, whatever you might think it is about...
As another random sample of events speaking volumes about reality... my monitor blew (must be at least 8 year old and while I have nothing to nice to say about ast products (and it was probably really a phillips/sony/mitsubishi or something) it did last for a while.) So I fetched an viewsonic e90b from staples (@$199 cnd) and immediately found when setting it up, it belched everytime I went to run something, requiring a hard reset. Ya should have seen me!
Sooo I reverted back to cat 4.4 drivers and the problem disappeared.
This is redickerlus. You keep buying ati if it please you, I prefer that other people have objective info to make up thier minds, not "glad handing" balather from name brand loyalists.
You can call me an nvidia fan if you like, that's your req'mnt to lable things not me or mine. If it really stinks or you get shafted, only a hardhead would makes sense out of continuing to patronize such poor, poor performance and quality.
Hmm, perhaps I'm lucky. I've never had a malfunctioning Nvidia or ATI card; I've owned or installed for others probably 8 Nvidia 6 ATI, spanning ECS, Asus, and Abit motherboards.
It is always a way too easy to blame it on some other factor rather than develop a quality product.
I did have another video card in there, an ati 9800pro, that was also another of the worst buying decisions I ever made in the last 30 years or so, but for its own different sets of reasons.
And of course again no responses from ati over its problems, even when I explained I would have to return it (which I did for a full refund). They sure as heck don't care, why should I?
This is exactly the same type of 'stance' a few "take the money and run" vendors took about 15 years ago. We shall see, what we shall see.
At his point I'd trust my voodoo 5500 better than I would the ati 9600xt.
A bit more cooling, upped voltages, making sure everything is seated properly, and it worked out
ohms, I have to admit that I find it strange that you say you have all these problems, and yet, very, very few other people experience ANY of them.
This leads me to believe that either there is something other than the video cards causing the problem, that you're an nVidiot who can't come to terms with the fact that nVidia hasn't produced a decent video card since the Ti4600 (and yes, I include the 6800 in that statement. The 6800 is still a turd. Less of a turd than the nv3x, but a turd nonetheless), or maybe it's a user issue (no offense- we've all caused problems at some point, some [like me] more so than others
But saying "because I have problems, it's the company's fault", without doing any significant tests to prove said statement:
a. Displays a complete lack of willingness to accept that maybe, just maybe, it's your fault. This is typical of many Americans today, and it's really rather disgusting.
b. Shows a complete lack of critical thinking skills
c. Makes you sound like a typical "fanboy"
d. Does not reflect well on you
and
e. Raises questions as to how much you actually know about building and maintaining computers
I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm simply stating what I see, so please don't take it the wrong way...