One good thing I've read, prime, is that it looks like a cpu upgrade for your little "bitch" might only be just a bios upgrade away. In that article linked to about overclocking the Dothan 2.0 on the Asus laptop, all they had to do was upgrade the bios for Dothan to run at stock speed. I imagine that shortly your lappy will have an updated bios allowing the same upgrade path also.
I like the 5:6 Supra better than the Ultra (it's quite underpowered for my tastes) but I'm a little wary of the price - it's a bit out of my range... but the gaming would be so GOOD...
//edit: The other notebooks that I'm looking at beat the 5:6 Ultra in every spec except for the vid card... I don't know whether it's worth making a slight sacrifice in gaming, or a sacrifice in everything else...
I don't know what you are talking about there, man. The ultra has either the 1.8 or 2.0 Dothan Pentium M, which have 2 MB L2 cache and are kick ass. Speedwise, the 2.0 should process as fast as any of the P4m procs, including the 3.2 P4m. I can't say how it would perform next to the emachines A64 lappy, but I do know that the 2.0 uses half the power of the A64 and quite a bit less than that compared to the P4m. I was looking up some info on Pentium M earlier tonight on Anantech and when Pentium M came out he did some tests and the 1.6 Banias (which has only 1 MB L2 cache) was fully competitive with a P4 2.66/533 desktop proc on most 2D tests. The Pentium M's processing power is more in line with the A64 than the P4, MHz for MHz.
Ask prime what he thinks about his Pentium M lappy, he'll fill you in on how good a proc it is.
BTW, the Pentium M core is where Intel's heading next and dumping the hot running P4 netburst architecture for both laptop and desktop and probably lower end server too.
I don't know what you are talking about there, man. The ultra has either the 1.8 or 2.0 Dothan Pentium M, which have 2 MB L2 cache and are kick ass. Speedwise, the 2.0 should process as fast as any of the P4m procs, including the 3.2 P4m. I can't say how it would perform next to the emachines A64 lappy, but I do know that the 2.0 uses half the power of the A64 and quite a bit less than that compared to the P4m. I was looking up some info on Pentium M earlier tonight on Anantech and when Pentium M came out he did some tests and the 1.6 Banias (which has only 1 MB L2 cache) was fully competitive with a P4 2.66/533 desktop proc on most 2D tests. The Pentium M's processing power is more in line with the A64 than the P4, MHz for MHz.
Ask prime what he thinks about his Pentium M lappy, he'll fill you in on how good a proc it is.
BTW, the Pentium M core is where Intel's heading next and dumping the hot running P4 netburst architecture for both laptop and desktop and probably lower end server too.
Actually, the 5:6 Force is the model you describe; the Ultra carries either a 1.5 or 1.6 Banias Pentium-M. In all specs except for the vid card, the Ultra (the one Geeky posted specs of above) is less than what I desire. The Supra (with 1.7 Dothan) or the Force (with 1.8-2.0) would fit the bill, but I can't really spend over $2000 for this notebook... the $1200 or so that the A64 notebook would end up costing me is more in line with what I can afford, I just wish it had the Radeon 9700M instead of the 9600M...
I'm familiar witht the Pentium-M performance... it just seems like the A64 is a little less expensive, per performance, than the Pentium-M. I'm impressed with the performance of it, but I'd still prefer a cheaper processor that works just as well (A64 fits the bill here). I don't really care whether the battery lasts 3 hours or 5, when I'm gaming it's going to be plugged into the wall full time.
I'm not ruling out the Dothan machines, I'm just saying that I'd have to spend about $600 more for a similarly spec'd Dothan machine over an A64 machine, and it's not worth it to me. If I could get a $1400 machine that had the 60GB HDD, 1.8GHz proc (not P4), 512MB RAM (the specs that the $1200 A64 machine has), plus had a Radeon 9700M, I'd go for it in a heartbeat.
Sorry about getting the names mixed up on the Powernotebook machines. One big reason why the emachines lappy is less is that the graphics system on it costs much less than the 9700 graphics on the Powernotes machines. What I do is this when buying a laptop: I think "What will keep me reasonably satisfied with this laptop 3 years down the road?". So I try to buy the top end proc and most definitely get the best graphics subsystem offered for the machine. After all, you can always upgrade the proc fairly easily but it might be much harder to upgrade the graphics, so I don't compromise at all on the graphics onboard the laptop. The cost difference between the Supra and the emachines you are looking at can very well be contributed to the added cost of the 9700 mobility subsystem compared to the 9600 graphics subsystem on the emachines. The Supra also has a smaller hard drive, but you can easily upgrade that later to a bigger, faster drive when you can afford to.
Another reason why I prefer the Pentium M over either the P4m or A64 is the power dissipation issue. I too am not so worried about the battery life as the greatest majority of the time I'm plugged in, but the heat issue bothers me and getting rid of all that heat is a lot harder with the A64 or P4m than Dothan. I'm worried about long term reliability on my laptop as I only replace them every 3 years or so, due to cost. The TDP (Thermal Design Power) on the mobile A64 3000+ is 64 watts, the TDP on the P4m 3.2 is 76 watts, but the TDP on the Dothan 2.0 is only 21 watts and the Banias 1.7's TDP is 24.5 watts. IMO, the laptops based on Pentium M will have a longer lifespan than the others due to lower cooling needs for the proc.
I'm sure that the A64 you are looking at would make an awesome laptop for you though, if you can live with the downgraded vid subsystem on that emachines laptop.
EDIT: The TDP figures I'm quoting come from this page , where all the modern era proc's electrical and thermal design characteristics are listed.
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Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited June 2004
If the laptop is properly designed, the heat output of the CPU should have no impact on reliability. For instance, right now, the P4 2.4 (desktop P4, not a mobile P4) in my laptop is running at only 38*C.
That's a good point, Geeky, but for my purposes less heat is better. Some places I have to set up my laptop are less than ideal, with dust and heat being an issue I have to deal with. Plus, that Sager you got is a well built machine, with plenty of thought put into the design. I wonder about the emachines design; not knocking it because I've never looked at one in person. Hopefully, it has had plenty of thought put into it's cooling. One other thing is that I fold with my laptop while it's under warrantee and less heat =better!
I honestly don't think that the price differential between the Radeon 9600M and 9700M is $600 - I think at least half of that differential cost is the name-brand-value that Intel adds to the prices of their processors.
I'm under the impression that the 9600M/9700M cards are discrete, and therefore upgradeable. (?)
I don't know how to get my hands on a replacement card, however...
You said the emachines you are looking at was around $1500 with a $250 rebate, so it's ultimately costing around $1250 (when and if they actually send you the rebate) and the Supra is around $1650 with XP home, so it looks like around a $400 difference to me. Part of that I'm sure is the price premium due to it being Intel's newest processor line but I'd say that at least $200 is the difference between the 9600 mobility 64 meg and 9700 mobility 128 meg. Yes, they are discreet video subsystems but I don't know about future upgradability because I'm pretty sure they are a proprietary layout to fit the laptops.
Hopefully emachines will be a little more speedy with their rebates than Dell was with my rebate 3 years ago when I bought my present laptop. It took almost 6 months for them to send me my $100 rebate.
BTW, I'm really mad at you because talking about buying a new laptop made me spend $2500 this morning ordering that PowerPro M 5:6 Force with the 2.0 Dothan and the 60 gig 7200 rpm Hitachi drive this morning.
Actually, I'm not really mad at you; I was drooling over it last week while on the rig, lamenting at how slow my Dell P3 1.0 lappy had become compared to my desktop machines. It was time anyways to hit Uncle Sam with a new laptop for work; I'll write it off on taxes at the end of the year (legitimately, I might add). If you get that emachines, post some benches with various apps; I plan to do the same with mine when it comes in and see what it performs like with stuff like 3DMark 2001 and ATTO and maybe some other things.
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Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited June 2004
You may want to invest in some kind of laptop cooling pad. I'm going to have to try to find one I like if you're interested; the antec one is ****. But those 7200rpm drives run hot as hell. My Toshiba MK-5024GAY (50GB/7200RPM/16MB Cache, 2.5"/9.5mm) can hit over 50*C if I let it; I have to take the battery out of the modular bay and put a fan under/next to it to keep the wrist rest from getting uncomfortably hot. You might want to ask them to swap it for the 80gb 5400rpm drive...
Let me know what you find on the cooling pad, Geeky. I plan on staying with the Hitachi drive though and see how hot it runs. If I'm dissatisfied with it the first 15 days I will either make them send me the 80 gig drive or send the laptop back.
Got to play with an eMachines at Bestbuy. It didn't feel even a bit warm, but they run some lame program that tells you about the system, so I didn't get to "really" use it, plus I wasn't there long. But I can't wait to get mine, it looks like I'll be the owner of a eMachines m6809!
Don't forget, I also get 20% paid for by my work; after taxes it's more like 10%, so I'd be paying about $1205 after tax for the eMachines, plus getting about $100 in BB rewards certs, or $1584 (after work comp) for a comparably equipped (proc speed and HDD-wise) powernotebooks machine that has the 9700M - $379 plus the price of the goods I'd buy with the BB Rewards certs (A notebook case and an MX-510 mouse, about $100) more... hmm...
That emachines is a good deal for you, GHoosdum. One thing I would suggest strongly for you to invest some money in though, is to buy an extended warrantee to extend it to 3 years. I've done that with all my laptops and with my first 2, it more than paid for itself. Both my previous laptops have had the backlight go out after the 1 year warrantee was up, which would have cost me several hundred dollars to fix each. Plus I've had floppy and hard drives and cd burners go bad after the 1 year warrantee was up. The 2 year extention on the warrantee for this PowerPro was $155.
That emachines is a good deal for you, GHoosdum. One thing I would suggest strongly for you to invest some money in though, is to buy an extended warrantee to extend it to 3 years. I've done that with all my laptops and with my first 2, it more than paid for itself. Both my previous laptops have had the backlight go out after the 1 year warrantee was up, which would have cost me several hundred dollars to fix each. Plus I've had floppy and hard drives and cd burners go bad after the 1 year warrantee was up. The 2 year extention on the warrantee for this PowerPro was $155.
Hmm... the Best Buy servie plan might just be worth it in this case...
Actually, my friend got the service plan on both his $200 cell phone and $350 PDA, and he got 2 new cell phones for free within a few years, and $350 in Best Buy gift cards back when the PDA "failed" because BB didn't have a comparable model in stock. It might just be a good deal...
I wound up with the M6809 by eMachines. This week at BestBuy, it's $1400 after rebate. I got the 3-year service plan on it (4 repairs and BestBuy replaces it with a comparably priced model - so if it breaks a few times in 3 years I get a free upgrade). After tax, the service plan, and renewing my Best Buy Reward Zone membership, I paid $2096 for an AMD64 3200+, Mobility Radeon 9600 (64M) graphics, 80GB HDD, DVD+/-RW drive, et al. I'll be getting $250 in MIR back to me, and about $100 in Reward Zone certificates to buy a case and MX510 mouse.
I didn't get the 20% reimbursement at work - I'd have to wait 6 more months to be eligible, and I wanted the notebook NOW - I'm taking it to LANWAR this coming weekend.
Final price: $1846 - $100 Reward Zone certs for the lappy with a 3-year service plan.
Congrats man. My sister had to pull me out of the store, I was very tempted to pick one up myself. Please report back on any benchmarks and your opinions on it at your earliest convenience.
Comments
I don't know what you are talking about there, man. The ultra has either the 1.8 or 2.0 Dothan Pentium M, which have 2 MB L2 cache and are kick ass. Speedwise, the 2.0 should process as fast as any of the P4m procs, including the 3.2 P4m. I can't say how it would perform next to the emachines A64 lappy, but I do know that the 2.0 uses half the power of the A64 and quite a bit less than that compared to the P4m. I was looking up some info on Pentium M earlier tonight on Anantech and when Pentium M came out he did some tests and the 1.6 Banias (which has only 1 MB L2 cache) was fully competitive with a P4 2.66/533 desktop proc on most 2D tests. The Pentium M's processing power is more in line with the A64 than the P4, MHz for MHz.
Ask prime what he thinks about his Pentium M lappy, he'll fill you in on how good a proc it is.
BTW, the Pentium M core is where Intel's heading next and dumping the hot running P4 netburst architecture for both laptop and desktop and probably lower end server too.
Actually, the 5:6 Force is the model you describe; the Ultra carries either a 1.5 or 1.6 Banias Pentium-M. In all specs except for the vid card, the Ultra (the one Geeky posted specs of above) is less than what I desire. The Supra (with 1.7 Dothan) or the Force (with 1.8-2.0) would fit the bill, but I can't really spend over $2000 for this notebook... the $1200 or so that the A64 notebook would end up costing me is more in line with what I can afford, I just wish it had the Radeon 9700M instead of the 9600M...
I'm familiar witht the Pentium-M performance... it just seems like the A64 is a little less expensive, per performance, than the Pentium-M. I'm impressed with the performance of it, but I'd still prefer a cheaper processor that works just as well (A64 fits the bill here). I don't really care whether the battery lasts 3 hours or 5, when I'm gaming it's going to be plugged into the wall full time.
I'm not ruling out the Dothan machines, I'm just saying that I'd have to spend about $600 more for a similarly spec'd Dothan machine over an A64 machine, and it's not worth it to me. If I could get a $1400 machine that had the 60GB HDD, 1.8GHz proc (not P4), 512MB RAM (the specs that the $1200 A64 machine has), plus had a Radeon 9700M, I'd go for it in a heartbeat.
Another reason why I prefer the Pentium M over either the P4m or A64 is the power dissipation issue. I too am not so worried about the battery life as the greatest majority of the time I'm plugged in, but the heat issue bothers me and getting rid of all that heat is a lot harder with the A64 or P4m than Dothan. I'm worried about long term reliability on my laptop as I only replace them every 3 years or so, due to cost. The TDP (Thermal Design Power) on the mobile A64 3000+ is 64 watts, the TDP on the P4m 3.2 is 76 watts, but the TDP on the Dothan 2.0 is only 21 watts and the Banias 1.7's TDP is 24.5 watts. IMO, the laptops based on Pentium M will have a longer lifespan than the others due to lower cooling needs for the proc.
I'm sure that the A64 you are looking at would make an awesome laptop for you though, if you can live with the downgraded vid subsystem on that emachines laptop.
EDIT: The TDP figures I'm quoting come from this page , where all the modern era proc's electrical and thermal design characteristics are listed.
I'm under the impression that the 9600M/9700M cards are discrete, and therefore upgradeable. (?)
I don't know how to get my hands on a replacement card, however...
Hopefully emachines will be a little more speedy with their rebates than Dell was with my rebate 3 years ago when I bought my present laptop. It took almost 6 months for them to send me my $100 rebate.
BTW, I'm really mad at you because talking about buying a new laptop made me spend $2500 this morning ordering that PowerPro M 5:6 Force with the 2.0 Dothan and the 60 gig 7200 rpm Hitachi drive this morning.
Actually, I'm not really mad at you; I was drooling over it last week while on the rig, lamenting at how slow my Dell P3 1.0 lappy had become compared to my desktop machines. It was time anyways to hit Uncle Sam with a new laptop for work; I'll write it off on taxes at the end of the year (legitimately, I might add). If you get that emachines, post some benches with various apps; I plan to do the same with mine when it comes in and see what it performs like with stuff like 3DMark 2001 and ATTO and maybe some other things.
Just gotta wait for my money to come.
Don't forget, I also get 20% paid for by my work; after taxes it's more like 10%, so I'd be paying about $1205 after tax for the eMachines, plus getting about $100 in BB rewards certs, or $1584 (after work comp) for a comparably equipped (proc speed and HDD-wise) powernotebooks machine that has the 9700M - $379 plus the price of the goods I'd buy with the BB Rewards certs (A notebook case and an MX-510 mouse, about $100) more... hmm...
Hmm... the Best Buy servie plan might just be worth it in this case...
Actually, my friend got the service plan on both his $200 cell phone and $350 PDA, and he got 2 new cell phones for free within a few years, and $350 in Best Buy gift cards back when the PDA "failed" because BB didn't have a comparable model in stock. It might just be a good deal...
here is a review on the 6805 laptop
I guess I didn't need it as bad as I thought.
I didn't get the 20% reimbursement at work - I'd have to wait 6 more months to be eligible, and I wanted the notebook NOW - I'm taking it to LANWAR this coming weekend.
Final price: $1846 - $100 Reward Zone certs for the lappy with a 3-year service plan.