Removing Intel Heatspreader

MancabusMancabus Charlottesville, VA
edited August 2003 in Hardware
Anyone here have experience doing this?

I've heard that it could reduce temps if I ripped that sucker off, reapplied goo, then put my HSF back on.

Also what if it doesn't, would it be easy to reinstall the thing.

This is on a Pentium III-S processor that, according to the harware monitoring in the BIOS, is running anywhere from 41C to 48C depending on load.

Also I have read that these processors can run without any active cooling, I may give that a try and see how it goes.

Comments

  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited August 2003
    If your objective is just to see if you can do it - fine; if it is to lower temperatures - hmm. I'm not sure if you'd get lower enough temps to warrant the risk to CPU damage. Also, unless the heatsink is springloaded correctly, it might not interface correctly with a CPU core that is a few millimeters lower than the heatspreader's height.

    If it were me, I wouldn't even try it. I've no experience with this - it's just my guess.

    That's strange though. Athlon overclockers have been musing for a long time, saying that they wish AMD would install Intel-like heatspreaders on their CPUs! I just think it would be a risky, fruitless undertaking.
  • MancabusMancabus Charlottesville, VA
    edited August 2003
    Leonardo said
    If your objective is just to see if you can do it - fine; if it is to lower temperatures - hmm. I'm not sure if you'd get lower enough temps to warrant the risk to CPU damage. Also, unless the heatsink is springloaded correctly, it might not interface correctly with a CPU core that is a few millimeters lower than the heatspreader's height.


    Well I see from your sig that you have a Vantec AeroFlow on your first Intel box. If yours is anything like mine, then your Mobo almost snapped in half when you put that HSF on. I had to put so much pressure on it that I thought that might happen so I think interfacing wouldn't be a problem.
  • EQuitoEQuito SoCal, USA
    edited August 2003
    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17565
    I took the IHS off a couple of days ago, and after several attempts at getting the vapochill cooling head to make good contact with the P4c core I finally got it stable yesturday at 3925mhz. This was a definte improvement over the stock chip which OCed to 3867. Well worth the effort !!!
    and a few days later... :D

    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17680
    No I had put the IHS back on and was getting lower temps than ever b4 ! higher OC and everything!
  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited August 2003
    A thin highly conductive heat spreader would actually help temps. I havent gotten around to bonding a thin silver plate to an old TBird yet, but give me time.
    You might try thinning the HS. Use fine sand paper and grind it down a bit.
    trust me, a heat spreader should help.
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited August 2003
    edcentric said
    A thin highly conductive heat spreader would actually help temps. I havent gotten around to bonding a thin silver plate to an old TBird yet, but give me time.
    You might try thinning the HS. Use fine sand paper and grind it down a bit.
    trust me, a heat spreader should help.

    Not at all. The heatspreader is actually worse for overclockers. It´s just there to prevent cracked cores. The more material between the heatsource and the heatsink, the more thermal transfer loss. Can´t argue with physics.
  • dodododo Landisville, PA
    edited August 2003
    Mackanz said
    edcentric said
    A thin highly conductive heat spreader would actually help temps. I havent gotten around to bonding a thin silver plate to an old TBird yet, but give me time.
    You might try thinning the HS. Use fine sand paper and grind it down a bit.
    trust me, a heat spreader should help.

    Not at all. The heatspreader is actually worse for overclockers. It´s just there to prevent cracked cores. The more material between the heatsource and the heatsink, the more thermal transfer loss. Can´t argue with physics.

    Don't you want thermal transfer loss? I could be wrong...oh, you are saying that the heatspreader makes a poorer bond with the heatsink?

    ~dodo
  • EQuitoEQuito SoCal, USA
    edited August 2003
    Thermal transfer loss = less heat dissipation = poor cooling
    Thermal transfer gain = more heat dissipation = better cooling
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited August 2003
    dodo said
    Mackanz said
    edcentric said
    A thin highly conductive heat spreader would actually help temps. I havent gotten around to bonding a thin silver plate to an old TBird yet, but give me time.
    You might try thinning the HS. Use fine sand paper and grind it down a bit.
    trust me, a heat spreader should help.

    Not at all. The heatspreader is actually worse for overclockers. It´s just there to prevent cracked cores. The more material between the heatsource and the heatsink, the more thermal transfer loss. Can´t argue with physics.

    Don't you want thermal transfer loss? I could be wrong...oh, you are saying that the heatspreader makes a poorer bond with the heatsink?

    ~dodo

    Not necessarily poorer contact but it´s impossible to maintain 100% thermal transfer with extra material between the core and the heatsink. It´s the heatsinks job to spread the heat all around the heatsink and the fan takes care of the removal of as much of that heat as possible from the heatsink. In between there, you will have thermal transfering loss.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited August 2003
    I took the IHS off a couple of days ago, and after several attempts at getting the vapochill cooling head to make good contact with the P4c core I finally got it stable yesturday at 3925mhz. This was a definte improvement over the stock chip which OCed to 3867. Well worth the effort !!!

    I realize extreme overclockers take joy in what others might consider to be 'SO WHAT'. In this case - all that effort for a 1.5% OC increase; and then it goes back on anyway.
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited August 2003
    Taking the IHS off of a P3 or P4 chip has shown to be able to reduce temperatures 3-4*C over what you already have. However, you run into a problem with getting solid contact between the CPU die and the heatsink.

    You can remove the P4 IHS with the edge of a razor blade, but one little slip and you can turn your proc into a keychain.

    IMHO, it's not worth screwing with it just for the sake of dropping temps a measly 3-4*C. :D
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited August 2003
    3-4*C? Well, I guess I just showed my ignorance.
  • MancabusMancabus Charlottesville, VA
    edited August 2003
    Sure more MHz would be great, but I'm not that hardcore of an OC'er, like those Xtreme guys. Cripes I've never seen such lunacy.

    All I really want to do is keep my room from getting as hot as it does. The heat makes my room smell awful, and I would also like to be able to sit in my chair and not get swamp-ass just because it's so damned hot.

    Any drop in temps would make my room cooler I think.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited August 2003
    Other way around. The cooler the CPU runs, the more heat it's dumping into the air. The more heat it's exhausting, the hotter the room gets. The hotter your cpu runs, the cooler your room is.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited August 2003
    That's what I was thinking. ;D
  • MancabusMancabus Charlottesville, VA
    edited August 2003
    Geeky1 said
    Other way around. The cooler the CPU runs, the more heat it's dumping into the air. The more heat it's exhausting, the hotter the room gets. The hotter your cpu runs, the cooler your room is.

    Hmm, I guess I should turn off the the heatsink fan and see if it gets cooler in the room. I would also guess that I can't win this battle if I want to fold 24/7.

    So swamp-ass it is.
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    edited August 2003
    Measure the the hatsink. Should be about 50mm. A 40mm fan sold for the backs of IDE removable drive trays will mount on it a variety of ways. Fan mount screws dolloped with an epoxy like J-B KWIK (which is a fast set version of J-B Weld), will grab and hold it on. This has a set time of 25-20 min and can cure while machine runs and does not run all over the place. I have seen the corners of these little fans Super Glue GELled on, with 3M Super Glue Gel. You do need to not get it running by letting it sit fan top down and little dolloped up until it just barely starts to set. THAT method needs the computer on its side overnight.

    HOWEVER, that will help only the smell and not the room heatmuch at all, it is being heated by what is coming out of the case. If this is a new box, and you cool it right, expect the smell to go away some after 1-2 weeks use as the computer literally burns in.

    I have a customer's box here-- It was running hot according to the Intel monitor software(every two hours it shutdown with a thermal error, it has had two versions of the complete Intel chipset and monitoring software on it). I stuck a second fan in, tried another PSU, and finally pulled out my credit card and called Intel motherboard support (this board had been RMA'd and a new one shipped about 6 months ago, to make things worse).

    What had happened, was the new board had an old BIOS. After flashing the BIOS, 98 SE and XP both do not report things like abnormal shutdowns, that BIOS does not safety, and with the bit of Arctic Silver Ceramique on the CPU that I stuck on the Intel\Sanyo Deiko heatsink and fan combo the 2.26 GHz CPU now runs under 40C (and the Ceramique has not reached peak effectiveness, it has only been running 12 hours straight so far and Ceramique cures in over 200 hours of run time).

    BIOS flash fixed the Intel temp monitoring software, the fans keep the case at about 1-2 C over room temp and the CPU runs 3-4 C above case. In this case, moving lots of ari sucks heat and does not stink or raise temps too much as the 2 120mm Tt fans (front in, back out) pull a combined 158 CFM of air through the case and gen about 60 Db noise TOTAL between tham. He also got rounded IDE cables, and the 10 bay has HDs located so passing air hits bottom of hotter running one and top of cooler running one. Before this the CPU was running at a normal 40-45 C. I expect about a 1-2 Cdrop and the customer will probbaly ask me (he is an electrical engineer who worked in auto electrical areas) how the heck I got a CPU to run 1-2 C over case temp.

    I just looked-- CPU is floating between 35-36 C and the case temp steady at 32 for last four hours.

    Focus on dissipating heat fast, then moving air fast to the max you can stand the noise of. Faster moving air pulls less heat into itself per cubic foot and does nto have to absorb extra heat. BUT, run air front low to top high and you will do very well, so leave sides on and side vent only for things like Video card and vent that with a vent kit or duct kit if possible so overall air flow is not torn apart inside case.

    Case is an Enlight whose model number I forgot, with an Antec Performance 350 Watt PSU.

    If you want a kicking case and PSU combo, there are soem Antec SX1040BII's(Black version IIs of teh SX1040) at Page Computer. The PSU is an Antec Solutions 400 (about). Price is $98.05 plus tax if in California including shipping ground. I paid $139.00 for a version one (beige) from Antec over a year and a half ago-- same PSU essentially, 10 bay, very good construction. It has about enough fan mounts and umph to run fans that can gen 200+ CFM combined with no extra holes in sides or even side vents(For fans, I use a mix of Tt thermal controlled back fans and the two Antecs that come with it right now remounted to front position (for some reason,those were not thermal controlled) and have switched to Arctic Silver Ceramique on its existing CPU and will do this again on a much faster CPU when I have time for a CPU and RAM swapout for faster RAM-- the major winner there will F@H (I do fold, as a stand-alone machine as my contribs are free will only.)).

    John Danielson.
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited August 2003
    OMG does the word "synopsis" mean anything to you! :D
  • MancabusMancabus Charlottesville, VA
    edited August 2003
    OK OK Ageek, you went a little too far.

    My cooling situation is just fine, I have a nice Vantec AeroFlow aluminum HS with copper core with a 70MM TMD fan. My nice aluminum Lian Li PC60 has two 80MM's in the lower front blowing air across the mobo with an 80MM blowing out the upper back.

    My case temps are 10C lower than the CPU temps, so I guess that is good according to what you were saying.

    I was thinking of puting another fan on top to dissipate the heat that may be lingering up there.

    But what I am now understanding is that if I remove the IHS from the chip the HSF will probably have to dissipate more heat, pending I mount it right. Thus having more fans would be a good thing in that faster airflow makes for cooler exhaust air.
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited August 2003
    Ageek,

    WTF are you talking about?
    Get a grip, you need help.
  • CBCB Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Der Millionendorf- Icrontian
    edited August 2003
    GE makes a much larger version of those case fans designed for a window-sill. They can help cool a room, much the same as a case fan cools a case. Position the fans in two windows (or a window and a door) with the maximum airflow passing over the room's ocupant for best performance. :)

    As for the swampass, you should wear undergarments made from a material that will wick the moisture away from your body instead of absorbing the moisture and holding it there (try nylon instead of cotton), or you could get a desk chair covered in a material that breathes a little better.

    As another alternative, you could aply a novelty sized heatsink to the underside of your desk chair. :rolleyes2

    As for the reek, I've got a bit of that in my office as well (it wasen't me) I use one of these:

    http://onefreespirit.com/new_page_31.htm

    I prefer Jasmine or Vanilla :)
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