I fux0red my Vid Card, Whos good at soldering??

pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
edited September 2003 in Hardware
Hey guys,

So I'm busy installing my softmodded 9500 into my new shuttle system that just arrived today. I had to yank it out of my other system cause the shuttles card won't be here till Mon or so. Everything was working fine, up until I had to pull the card out of the shuttle to make some cable movements, and I hit the vid card on part of the frame on the way out. :banghead:

Needless to say it seems to have knocked a transistor (I think) off the back of the card, luckily, I managed to find this $150 piece of plastic and metal. My question being, what would be the best way to put this teeny little thing back on? Conductive glue seems to be the best in my mind, just for ease of use, but not durability. Should I take this thing to a TV shop and get some guy to solder it? I could do it with the right tools though. Any help/ideas would be appreciated!!

Remember, the quicker this happens, the sooner that 3000+ gets folding :):fold::fold::fold::fold::fold: I'll post some pics, soon as I find my drivers for the camera......
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Comments

  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited September 2003
    What's it look like? If you're lucky, it may not be a big deal... I've knocked SMD stuff off a video card before, and it's still working fine (for now...)
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Its just a teeny black rectangle thats about 2mmx3mm I'd estimate, has some writing on it to. My buddy seems to think its a transistor, but thats just his guess from my description. Nothing seems to be damaged, my only worry is that I turned the computer on about 3 times with it not working, and hopefully, this part wasn't integral to keeping volts down or something along those lines. All the card put out was colored boxes when it was on, but it would cycle through vid modes when going into Windows.

    I think I'll be ok, if I can just figure out the best way to fix it.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited September 2003
    How was it attached- did it have a bunch of metal "legs" like RAM chips do (e.g. a TSOP package) or did it just have a pair of solder pads or something?

    Also, where was it on the card? It'd really help if you could get your camera talking with a computer again...
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    I would say it just had a pair of solder pads.

    A piece of metal comes out of each side, and is folded below the chip. The metal that still remains on the side is then soldered to the board. If you've seen that back of the 9500/9700/9800, its just like the yellow boxes soldered on the back, cept its black and is slightly larger.

    edit// Ooops. It was on the back in the far upper corner from the monitor output.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited September 2003
    Well, the yellow things are capacitors I believe; This is probably some kind of resistor or capacitor or something as well; I doubt it'd be any kind of complex chip with just two connections... All you can do is plug it in and try it. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. If it dies 6 months from now you may have conked something important and fried something... the only way to know what it's gonna do is to try it. Unless the chip came off in one piece (you have both metal tabs to re-solder it) it's going to be near-impossible to reattach, and even then it probably won't be easy. These things were designed to be dip soldered, not soldered by hand. Put the chip in a ziploc bag so you don't loose it, and google parts/all of the writing on it; see if you can find out what it does. If you're lucky, it might just be a cap or something, and you can get a replacement from radioshack or wherever that's not a SMD, which will make it much easier to solder.
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    It looks like these things I've circled in black. It came off in one piece, and seems like it'd be fairly easy to put back on. I'll google around and see what I can find.....
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Heres the writing on the chip

    (Unknown Symbol):028
    S3AB
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    THAR SHE BLOWS!!!

    http://www.liteon-semi.com/pdf/054(S3AB-S3MB-2).pdf

    Reading that makes me do an Uh-Oh. I see the words resistance far too many times... Anyone know what to make of that? I'm ME, not EE.
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Seems it says its a surface mount rectifier, whatever that is.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited September 2003
    I'm not an electronics expert (I do computers, not electronics) so I had to look some of this up.

    SMD (Surface Mount Device) is pretty self-explanatory; it's a chip that's soldered onto the surface of the PCB, so it doesn't go through the PCB itself, which leaves the other layers below it open for other traces and stuff.

    A rectifier (in electronics) is a device that converts alternating current (AC) to direct current (DC).

    A diode (in this case) is a device that passes current in only one direction

    In this case, passivation refers to coating "(a semiconductor, for example) with an oxide layer to protect against contamination and increase electrical stability."

    So basically, it's purpose is to only pass current in one direction, which means that you may be Fuggered with a capital "F". My guess is that it's probably polarized, which means that if you put it on the wrong way, it's probably gonna make something go "poof!" or at least make sure the card won't work until it's turned around...

    So you're gonna need to find a high-res picture of a 9700 PCB to see how it's oriented.
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Yeah, orientation was my other worry. If someone out there wants to take a picture of the back of their card, itd be greatly appreciated. I'll try and get a pic of my card and the chip so someone can know what I'm talking about. Thanks Geeky.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited September 2003
    You're lucky that I'm such a nice guy, you know that? ;D

    I happen to have a Radeon 9700 Pro sitting here, on my desk, that I just pulled out of one of my systems, just to see if I could get a pic of this thing for you.

    This card has a Zalman ZM80A-HP cooler and Zalman fan bracket for cooling. Do you have any idea how hard it is to reattach that f**king bracket? And I took it out just because I'm a nice guy.

    I'll yank off the ZM80A-HP when I get back (have to run an errand real fast here in the next few minutes) and take some pix.

    BTW, have I told you how lucky you are? ;D;D;D

    (In reality, I was going to take it out and take the heatpipe off anyhow... I have some tweaking I want to do).

    However, I only have a 1.5MP digital camera, so I may not be able to help you right now; my dad has some kind of setup for his 4.0mp nikon that'll attach it to a microscope, but I'd have to wait until either tomorrow or monday to use that (it's at work)

    Anyhow, I'll post those images asap
  • TheSmJTheSmJ
    edited September 2003
    Geeky, I doubt mis-orienting the rectifier would cause damage. If it's connected in the wrong direction, it would do the same thing as it would it weren’t there at all. The card wouldn’t work.

    If a light bulb were to be connected to a diode, and the diode were oriented in the opposite direction of the current, the light simply would not turn on. Being as this is a low amp part, not enough heat would be generated by the resistance to the current.

    I say try it in one direction, and then another. If neither direction works, get a new rectifier of the same specs, and try that, as the part may have been damaged.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Yes, but this isn't an LED. It's an AC -> DC rectifier diode. It could very well be polarized..And whilst an LED being polarized means it doesn't work (It's all DC), improper polarization in AC -> DC means thing could go ZAP!
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited September 2003
    SmJ/Thrax: I don't know enough about electronics to know which one of you is right. However, I'm inclined to stay on the safe side this time... the card's warranty is void (physical damage = no warranty), so he'll have to buy a replacement, and if it were me, I'd rather make sure I get it right and not risk killing something.

    Also, SmJ, this thing is SMALL. It's 4x3.3x2.5mm and it's facing other smd devices on 2 sides. Re-soldering it once is risky enough. Doing it twice is just asking for trouble.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited September 2003
    Just to double check:
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited September 2003
    F**k! I just broke my card. And this ain't one that's gonna be re-soldered, either. I tore the off one of the ICs under that heatspreader and in the process, one of the legs came clean out... and I can't find any info at all on this IC. I'm just gonna re-solder it as best I can, glue the heatspreader back down, hope they don't look under it, and send it back. actually, maybe I shouldn't solder it. If I don't solder it, and they look under it, then they may very well think that they took it off. What do you think?
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    good god, this is like the bad luck thread!! sorry to hear about your misfortunes guys.... :(:(

    :::leaves own 9700 pro alone and stays far away from it..::::
  • botheredbothered Manchester UK
    edited September 2003
    If it's a rectifier then putting it in the wrong way round could have dire consequences. A forward biased diode (rectifier) will require about 0.6 volts before it conducts. Put it in one way it is in effect an open circuit, the other way, almost a dead short. It has to be the correct way round.

    bothered.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited September 2003
    Camman, hopefully the worst that will come of any of this is a few days of downtime... I just re-soldered 1/2 of the chip's legs; now I just need the other ones... Glue heatspreader back down, get RMA#, send it back with note saying "video card stop. make card go." and hope no one looks under the heatspreader...
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Geeky1 said
    Camman, hopefully the worst that will come of any of this is a few days of downtime... I just re-soldered 1/2 of the chip's legs; now I just need the other ones... Glue heatspreader back down, get RMA#, send it back with note saying "video card stop. make card go." and hope no one looks under the heatspreader...

    hahaha I like the highly technical explanation :D "video card stop. make card go." ;D;D
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited September 2003
    Yeah, well I saw a comic in the sunday paper on the 14th and I figured it was relevant in this case...
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    hehehe ;D;D
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Pseudonym: Where in michigan are you? I can have your card repaired by a professional for free.
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Whoa, sounds good to me Prime. I'm in Dearborn, so not at all too far from you. A pro repair sounds great, considering I was thinking of tape just to make sure it still worked, and then ordering some conductive glue. :) Heck, I'd be happy with the right tools, I'm rather good at stuff like that.

    Geeky, thank you very much for everything, I'm sorry you got screwed because of me. That is the exact one that you highlighted. It looks to me like the vertical line is on the left side, please correct me if I am wrong. If there is anything I can do, please tell me, Thanks guys.
  • TheSmJTheSmJ
    edited September 2003
    Thrax said
    Yes, but this isn't an LED. It's an AC -> DC rectifier diode. It could very well be polarized..And whilst an LED being polarized means it doesn't work (It's all DC), improper polarization in AC -> DC means thing could go ZAP!

    Key word: diode.

    The current can only pass in one direction. I don’t know about you, but I've never seen a diode (be it LED, rectifier, or just a plain diode) do anything when it's placed in the opposite direction, aside from stopping the flow of current (assuming they are of the correct amp. rating for the job, of course).

    Pseudonym:

    If Prime could get it done by a pro for free, especially if you don’t know your way around a soldering iron well enough to do it yourself, I'd say that individual would be your best bet.



    Edit: Wow, with so many of us in Michigan, we all should get together sometime!

    Somebody say LAN party? :thumbsup:
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    I know my way around a soldering iron, just not on such a small scale. I figure there has to be some other tool out there thats a little more precise than my $5.00 iron I have. One mistake and I complete the circuit the wrong way :)
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Lol, how the hell did you manage to knock it off in the first place, it doesn't look like the easiest thing to do realistically, its tiny and recessed conpared to the rest of the components :p

    NS
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Oh yeah, I really need to read these things closer. LAN party sounds good to me. Theres me, McBain, two more of my buddies, my gfs bro, and potentially some others, we could have something pretty good set up if we wanted to.
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    NightShade737 said
    Lol, how the hell did you manage to knock it off in the first place, it doesn't look like the easiest thing to do realistically, its tiny and recessed conpared to the rest of the components :p

    NS

    I did it pulling it out of my new Shuttle. The area for the AGP is sooo tight on those things, and I pulled just a wee bit too hard getting it out of the AGP slot. I must've hit it in the perfect place, cause it snapped it right off.
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