Help Your Pal Thrax Pick a CPU

ThraxThrax 🐌Austin, TX Icrontian
edited February 2006 in Hardware
That's right, kids!

I'm finally in the market for an Athlon 64. The AM2 socket doesn't terribly interest me, nor does DDR2. Given the exorbitant pricetag that the platform will carry upon release, and my idea that the performance benefits will be marginal, I think now is a pretty good idea to push off the starting block and finally tread into Athlon 64 territory.

I know what you're thinking: "Thrax is finally getting on the A64 bandwagon?" Hot damn, yes he plans to. I've waited a long time for this, for the platform to mature, for the dust to settle. Years after the CPU hit the market, I think it's time for a little love from me in the Athlon camp once again. My faithful 9700 Pro, JIUHB 1700+ with a 1GHz overclock and NF7-S 2.0 will live in history as my own personal 440bx/Celeron 300a. I'll bronze them! Box them! Give them to posterity!

But now, it's time to overclock again. I have the money and the will.

Parts:
DFI LanParty nf4 Ultra-D (No frills, no SLI -- perfect. I don't want either.)
1GB OCZ VX Gold (Have it! Sweet stuff)
BioStar 7800GTX (It's cheap, and I don't want to pay $600 for the BFG models)

The only thing that eludes me is the CPU. Prior to the X2 CPUs, the Venice 3000+ was the king of speed in the overclocking race. Is there anything similar in the X2 arena? Any bang/buck chip that's a must have? I've only been keeping a loose eye on the market, given my lack of funds, but it's time to pay attention again.

I've heard that the Athlon 64 X2 3800+ is that chip. Truth? Does it do 2.6Ghz?
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Comments

  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Opteron 170. All the cool kids are doing it :D you should definitely be able to get 2.6. Many are getting 2.8ghz
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Let me put it this way:

    Denmark Opteron 170: $400
    Manchester X2 3800+: $300

    Is there any substantial reason to pursue the 170 over the 3800?
  • TheSmJTheSmJ
    edited February 2006
    The Opti 165 can OC to that speed easily (some even at stock vCore) and is a very cheap dual-core CPU at $320 or less. It's an awesome OCer and runs cooler under full load than anything I've used since the Pentium MMX era. People have gotten these CPUs to reach above 2.9 GHz.

    If you really want a no frills board you can go with the ASRock 939Dual-SATA2. It's also upgradable to AM2 w/ DDR2 if you ever decide to go that route. Not to mention you'll be able to use your old AGP card and buy into PCIe whenever you choose.
  • TheSmJTheSmJ
    edited February 2006
    Oh, and you're not my pal.






    :vimp:
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Hey, **** you, buddy!

    Screw Asrock. The best overclocker is the DFI board, and I simply want the best overclocking board with the least frills possible. Keeps the cost down. I want to exclude frills, not at the exclusion of performance, if that makes sense.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Ahh, another X2 vs. Opteron thread. I'm neither disparaging the topic nor the new thread. It's just very interesting the can of worms (opportunities) that was created when the Opterons became readily available to the general public.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Also, for note:

    Overclocking the A64, I need to keep the HTT Freq. as close to default as possible while adjusting the FSB x Multi? IE, say I'm shooting for a 300MHz FSB.

    9 * 300 = 2700MHz.

    The HTT, at default would be insane at 3000Mhz. So I would clearly need to back it down. Is the 3.5 multiplier available for HTT? If so, I could get 2100MHz.
  • tmh88tmh88 Pittsburgh / Athens, OH
    edited February 2006
    amd fx60!!!!
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Why in the world would I get an FX? Waste of money.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    I'm another beleiver in the DC Opty's. I agree the 165 is a great alternative to the 170 if you can't justify or have the cash. The Opty's are soo much smoother and run on lower voltage. The larger L2 is nice also.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Between the 165 and the 170s, are the steppings likely to be identical? Just a lower core clockspeed?
  • lemonlimelemonlime Canada Member
    edited February 2006
    Thrax wrote:
    Also, for note:

    Overclocking the A64, I need to keep the HTT Freq. as close to default as possible while adjusting the FSB x Multi? IE, say I'm shooting for a 300MHz FSB.

    9 * 300 = 2700MHz.

    The HTT, at default would be insane at 3000Mhz. So I would clearly need to back it down. Is the 3.5 multiplier available for HTT? If so, I could get 2100MHz.

    If you are venturing into the 300MHz reference clock realm, you'll want to use the 3x LDT multiplier, which will get you about 1800MHz. As long as you keep it somewhere between 1700-2200MHz, you should be fine. There is no 3.5x LDT multi on the DFI NF4 boards. The only half LDT multi is 2.5/1.5x. 4x will likely be too high to maintain stability. The best I can do is about 2350MHz on the HTT before things go sour.

    The 165 is a great choice. Good value. Many of the steppings are the same across the 165/170/175 models. The extra L2 cache is a bonus over the 3800+ X2. The 9x multi makes it a little tougher to obtain high clocks, but with the DFI board, I wouldn't anticipate any issues. The 5/6 memory divider should get you about 245MHz on your VX at 9x300.

    I wouldn't totally discredit the 3800+ x2 though. If you can find one for significantly cheaper than the 165, I'd go for it. The L2 cache does not make a huge difference and you'll benefit from greater overclocking flexibility with the 10x multi.
  • GargGarg Purveyor of Lincoln Nightmares Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    I don't know if this is true or not, but I hear that the Opterons are made with higher-quality silicon, which is one factor in the perception that you'll get a better OC with an Opteron.
  • lemonlimelemonlime Canada Member
    edited February 2006
    Gargoyle wrote:
    I don't know if this is true or not, but I hear that the Opterons are made with higher-quality silicon, which is one factor in the perception that you'll get a better OC with an Opteron.

    I think there is some truth to that. It is a fact that AMD does test these chips more stringently for workstation/server environments. When the single core opterons first came out, they were clocking significantly higher than any other A64 branded chips, but that playing field started to even out once they started to get their speed binning down. There were FX57 stepping 144s out initially :D Wish I nabbed one of those. The new A64 steppings are doing quite well though, so I don't think a 3800+ model would do much worse than a 165/170.
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    I have the 3800+ I love it to death, not that I regret getting it, but that Opty 170 does look appealing to me ;)

    My 3800+ is at 2.4GHz right now, could do 2.5 but I don't wanna curse it I love the fact that my system hasn't crashed since I last OC'd it a few months back :D
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited February 2006
    I'm another in the DC Opti camp. I like the price/performance ratio of the 165, if it's within $50 of the X2 3800, then I would go for the Opti myself. Looking at Newegg, the price difference between the 2 is less than $30.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Come on, thrax.. Think back to the first time you ever met me.. Why did we meet? ;)
  • GargGarg Purveyor of Lincoln Nightmares Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    If only I had time at work to photochop yours and Thrax's faces onto a Brokeback Mountain poster ;D
    primesuspect wrote:
    Come on, thrax.. Think back to the first time you ever met me.. Why did we meet? ;)

    I mean, come on, that's a setup. ;)
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited February 2006
    {snicker}

    ...walks away whistling softly to self...
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    primesuspect wrote:
    Come on, thrax.. Think back to the first time you ever met me.. Why did we meet? ;)

    The Opteron. It was the first CPU of the Hammer architecture I had ever been given the.. SOVEREIGN HONOUR.. Of touching. ;) Even so, it looks like the 165 is going to be my choice. It's not much more expencive than the 3800+, and though the extra cache is relatively pointless, the room to breathe on the top end may be nice.

    Thanks, guys.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    nostalgia ftw :D
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    oh jeez get a room!;D

    Larry had the same chip as me and sold it almost immediately to get a +3800. Looks like he's back w/ the 170 now so that must speak for something!:thumbsup:
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited February 2006
    Hey Thrax, the extra cache definitely shows itself with folding. Both myself and Omega have seen the same thing, with a 5-10% increase in folding efficiency (guesstimating the percentages, but it should be close). You won't see those gains in everything you run, but it is nice to have. :)
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Thrax ...here's a thread you might want to start digging into. I thought of it when I saw the ram you have and was reminded of the high vdimm. In some instances ppl have noted losing processors due to high vdimm low vcore. I have low vdimm so it never concerned me much but you might want to look into it.

    Hope it helps. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=79509
  • ZuntarZuntar North Carolina Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    csimon wrote:
    Thrax ...here's a thread you might want to start digging into. I thought of it when I saw the ram you have and was reminded of the high vdimm. In some instances ppl have noted losing processors due to high vdimm low vcore. I have low vdimm so it never concerned me much but you might want to look into it.

    Hope it helps. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=79509
    Ohh yea, I was just reading about that at DFI-street!!!

    Good call csimon!!:thumbup
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Larry had the same chip as me and sold it almost immediately to get a +3800. Looks like he's back w/ the 170 now so that must speak for something!
    As long as you guys are playing shell games with processors... If any AMD super-CPU table scraps fall on the floor, just whistle for me. :D I'm aching to do AMD overclocking again.
  • jradminjradmin North Kackalaki
    edited February 2006
    I still really enjoy my 4000+. I've got it OC'd to 2648ghz on air...so I'm basically running an FX55 at half the cost.

    My next proc will probably be a dual core. Probably a 4800 X2 since I'm a game freak. My girlfriend is also getting an X2 even though she has some sort of grudge against dual core...she just doesn't know she's getting it yet =D
  • GargGarg Purveyor of Lincoln Nightmares Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    jradmin wrote:
    My girlfriend is also getting an X2 even though she has some sort of grudge against dual core...she just doesn't know she's getting it yet =D

    She knows enough about processors to have a grudge against dual core?

    She's a keeper :D

    And in other news, Thrax's new sig is awesome ;D
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Thrax,

    for Dual core, X2 3800+ is the way to go. For a single core, 3700+, preferably a Week 0550 stepping and you are gold. The dualcores run HOT when you overclock them. 50c even with the best aircooling unit out there at 2.75 ghz is normal. Many 3700+ does 3ghz easily now. And at a much nicer temperatures. I use a X2 3800+ in my primary gaming rig at 10X270 with 2GB of ram and the thing is fast. Go cheap on cpu and spend the money on a 2GB kit of ram. The VX you have holds its value really good since they have stopped producing it. Keep that as a benching ram and get yourself a good 2GB PC3200 or PC4000 kit.

    I have been playing a lot of MMORPG's (DDO mostly) lately and the difference between 1GB and 2GB is enormous.

    Edit, the 165 Opteron would be my last choice actually..to low of a multiplier if you intend to overclock. for 2.7 ghz, you would have to use a HTT at 300 to get a nice overclock, and there is not that many cpu's that can handle that kind of memory load with 2GB ram. 9X multiplier isn't cutting it. Think if the memorycontroller sucked and wont do more than 250. You would be stuck at 9X250.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited February 2006
    Week 0550 stepping anything and you are gold!
    It's not uncommon for 170's getting 2.8 on air at stock vcore.

    I agree on the 165 but keep an eye on brians week 0546 170.
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