New Processor/HSF

CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
edited October 2003 in Hardware
Well, unfortunately a deal a guy was hooking me up with on a P4 3.0ghz HT fell through, so I'm thinking about going with buying up a new AthlonXP and a new HSF, here's what I was thinking.

I'm seeing the XP 2600+ TBred at Newegg for $104 retail, and the Barton at $107 Retail. I know I'm probably going to sound like a newb, but reading through some threads I still don't understand the difference, the only difference I see is that the Barton is 1.9ghz while the TBred is 2.08ghz, whats the deal on that?

I am probably going with the SLK-800, I've seen that for about $40 (Xoxide was where I mostly recently looked). What fan do you guys suggest go with this?

And I'm also going to need to upgrade my memory to take advantage of the 333, and because I'm interested in finally jumping into the OCing game. Right now I have a 256mb stick of crucial 2700, but my other two sticks are Infineon 2100 256mb sticks, so I was gonna order a 512 of either 2700 or 3200 (price diff. is only a few dollars) from crucial. Any suggestions or input for a newbie wannabe OCer? :)

I really wanna be able to try and keep up with these friends of mine who are gonna be running the P4 3.0 w/HT (one with a 9800 np and one with a fx 5600), haha yes, benchmark wars, we're such nerds, but seriously, I'm in need of an upgrade!
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Comments

  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited October 2003
    The Barton CPU runs @ an FSB of 166 and has 512 KB of L2 cache, where the TBred-B runs @ 133 & only has 256 KB of L2.

    You should match a Mechatronics 53 CFM fan with the SLK-800.

    If you are using a motherboard with dual-channel capability, grab a matched pair of Corsair XMS3500-LL (or anything PC3500). That way, there's sufficient headroom for O/C'ing, but low enough latency to make incredible bandwidth.

    If your mobo isn't dual channel, you'll want a single stick of PC3500 (again, for overclocking reasons). Try for the lowest latencies you can get.
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    how do I know if the mobo supports dual channel? I are teh memory and OCing n00b, sorry...I really appreciate your assistance tho!

    btw; nice sig!
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited October 2003
    TBred has 256KB of L2 cache.
    Barton has 512KB of L2 cache.

    I'd go for the 2600+ on the Barton core. I believe it will O/C the same or better than the TBred, plus you have the extra L2 to help increase performance too.

    As for the fan, I'd get the highest CFM you can that has a dB level you can tolerate. Anything over the mid-40s (definitely over 50) and you'll probably wish you'd gotten a different fan. If you can find a 60CFM fan that isn't louder than about 40-45dB then that should be pretty good.

    I'd get PC3200 RAM and a motherboard that will run the FSB @ 200 too. (Abit NF7/NF7-S is a great mobo!).
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited October 2003
    Any nForce2 Ultra 400 board has a dual channel memory controller
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    right now I have a Soyo Dragon Ultra KT400, I'm trying to stick with this board only because I JUST got it back as a replacement for a Gigabyte board I RMAed
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited October 2003
    Then PC3200 will basically do you no good, that board will not allow an FSB of 200MHz. Even though it will run the RAM @ 200MHz, the timings will be messed up and will result in poorer performance than using 166FSB and 166RAM.
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    what does this mean?

    Soyo Motherboard for AMD Socket-A Athlon XP/Athlon/Duron, Model# SY-KT400 Dragon Ultra Retail
    Specifications:
    CPU Support: AMD Socket-A for AthlonXP/Athlon/Duron processors.
    Chipset: VIA KT400/8235
    FSB: 266/333MHz
    Memory Type: DDR400/333 SDRAM
    RAM: 3x DDR sockets support(DDR333/266/200), 3GB Max, 184-pin PC3200/PC2700/PC2100/PC1600 non-ECC, unbuffered DDR SDRAM memory

    I thought this meant I could run @ 333mhz FSB? I'll be the first to admit that I am unsure of what this means, but I got the impression that I could run 333 on this board

    and the box has a thing that says "Unleash the power of PC3200 DDR"
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited October 2003
    333MHz FSB is misleading. It's really 166MHz but it's "double-pumped" (read: DDR) so they say 333. Just like DDR400 RAM is really only running @ 200MHz.

    166MHz FSB for an Athlon is called 333.
    166MHz RAM is called DDR333.

    So, yes you can run that motherboard @ 333FSB, but it's not a true 333MHz, it's 166*2 MHz.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited October 2003
    You can run a 333FSB CPU on it. However, it's utterly, totally, worthless for overclocking (ok, so I may be exaggerating... I don't have any experience with the soyos in particular).

    The Via KT400 chipset does not lock the AGP/PCI frequencies, so whenever you raise the FSB, you're overclocking everything in the system. This is not generally a good thing, only because it tends to keep you from overclocking as high as you otherwise could.

    You should get a 2500+, some good PC3500 or faster RAM (PC3200 will work if it's really good ram too...), and an ABIT NF7 version 2.0. That combination should be good for 2.3-2.5GHz+, and that combined with the 512k cache of the Barton is going to make it much faster than a P4 3.0-C...
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    ohhhhh I see, so it would probably be just as good to get some more pc2700 sticks for this board since the 3200 isnt going to make a difference then, right?
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Geeky1 said
    You can run a 333FSB CPU on it. However, it's utterly, totally, worthless for overclocking (ok, so I may be exaggerating... I don't have any experience with the soyos in particular).

    The Via KT400 chipset does not lock the AGP/PCI frequencies, so whenever you raise the FSB, you're overclocking everything in the system. This is not generally a good thing, only because it tends to keep you from overclocking as high as you otherwise could.

    You should get a 2500+, some good PC3500 or faster RAM (PC3200 will work if it's really good ram too...), and an ABIT NF7 version 2.0. That combination should be good for 2.3-2.5GHz+, and that combined with the 512k cache of the Barton is going to make it much faster than a P4 3.0-C...

    hmmm...interesting....where's the best price on the NF7, I just checked newegg, the NF7-S was $112 and the NF7 was like $92, good price? (I dont know, havent bought a motherboard in a while, like I said, I just got this one, but it was an RMA)
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited October 2003
    www.excaliberpc.com, www.atacom.com or www.xpcgear.com should have the best price. Newegg may or may not be cheaper than one or all of those three, but all three guarantee a revision 2.0 board, if you buy the right one. That guarantee is important enough to pay the few extra $$.
  • GargGarg Purveyor of Lincoln Nightmares Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    For the fan I recommend a Thermaltake Smart Fan 2. That's what I use on my SLK-800. Moves lots of air at full blast without too much noise (not NEARLY as noisy as a Vantec Tornado, but almost as much CFM), but it comes with a speed controller to slow it down if the noise bothers you. And with as much surface area as the SLK-800 has, you can get by with a slower speed fan than on some other heatsinks.

    Right now I'm not folding (until midterms are over and I have a chance to get a new northbridge sink) and my Smart Fan 2 is at half speed - which makes my CPU temp range between 34-40*C as I range from idle to medium load.

    Smart Fan 2's are one of the most expensive 80mm fans you can buy though. I used a Sunon before I had my SF2, and it worked almost as well (for < half the price).
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited October 2003
    Last time I priced it, NewEgg was the same price as ExcaliberPC once you counted the shipping. ExcaliberPC has HORRIBLY SLOW default shipping, though so be ye forewarned. NewEgg doesn't guarantee 2.0, but I bet by now that's all they have. Many people have received a 2.0 from NewEgg.

    If you don't need FireWire and you already have a soundcard you very much like then there's not much reason to pay the extra $ to get the NF7-S, but if you do want FireWire and you don't have a nice soundcard, then I'd get the NF7-S. (I have the NF7-S. Thrax has one. mtgoat has one. I think Mackanz has one. A number of people on this site have one. I think even Geeky has one, but I don't think he likes his as much as most of us like ours.) I'm rambling.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited October 2003
    I like my NF7-S 2.0. I prefer Asus as a general rule, but the NF7-S is a hell of a board. And it clocks higher by ~200MHz than my A7N8X-Deluxe can handle. I'm not complaining :D
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited October 2003
    Camman, if you have a few extra dollars, I'd definately grab an NForce-2 based motherboard. It's a must now-a-days to get the full potential out of an AMD system, both in memory bandwidth (Dual Channel) and the ability to overclock like a mofo. The ABit NF7-S 2.0 is the defacto AMD board, but you should also consider the Asus A7N8X. Powerful little board for $114.00 CDN ($84.00 USD).

    The Barton 2500+ AQXEA 0331TPMW (Week 31) will do 2.3 GHz on a Vantec Aeroflow at stock voltage (I know this because I have one). Paired with an Asus A7N8X (or any NForce 2 motherboard) and Dual Channel DDR400 (PC3200), you have a high powered machine that can take whatever you throw at it... and for dirt cheap too. :)

    If you stick an SLK-800 on that beauty and any 40CFM or higher fan, you may even clock higher. :)
  • TemplarTemplar You first.
    edited October 2003
    Make sure you call your vendor and ask them if the NF7-S is v2.0 and not v1.2 or something else. I don't know the specific differences (It's a BIOS update I believe), but you can't find much praise for the v1.2 board :)

    Oh, and could anyone explain how Intel chips are Quad pumped?
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    I seriously doubt that Newegg is shipping anything but Rev 2.0's. I got mine back in April which was only a few weeks after the rev 2.0's were released and got a rev 2.0 as has everyone I know of since then. It is hard to go with other retailers after the service Newegg has given most of us.

    Look at the date on my order / I was shipped a Rev 2.0!
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited October 2003
    Intel's Hub Architecture (Intel's transport protocols between the Memory Controller Hub, CPU, System RAM, I/O Controller Hub & Firmware Controller Hub) is 64-bits wide, running at 200 MHz (or 133 or 100, depending on the chipset & CPU installed).

    Even though the FSB is only really clocked at 200 MHz, it is quad-pumped using the same principle as AGP4x (essentially sending 4x the data across one clock cycle).

    Therefore, you can see the need for dual-channel DDR SDRAM to perfectly match the bandwidth requirements of the Intel Hub Architecture: 8-bytes x 200 MHz x 4 (quad pumped) = 6.4 GBps.

    Dual Channel DDR: 8-bytes x 200 MHz x 2 (DDR) x 2 (Dual Channel, operating in Lock-Step) = 6.4 GBps.

    The P4 platform is designed for insanely high bandwidth. Today's P4 800 MHz FSB CPU's require 6.4 GB/s of memory bandwidth to provide data to the CPU fast enough. That's why with the original P4's, PC133 SDRAM just wouldn't cut it. They needed a high-bandwidth option... Enter RAMBUS.

    However, with DDR becoming so much cheaper and offering better performance than RAMBUS, Intel had no choice but to offer DDR SDRAM boards & chipsets for their P4, or risked alienating the market (nobody would pay $800 for a 128 MB PC800 RDRAM stick).

    Intel's 875P Canterwood Dual-Channel DDR chipset is the fastest available P4 platform. The block diagram below shows how important having matched DDR memory throughput & CPU throughput is to the MCH and how it can directly affect performance.
  • GnomeWizarddGnomeWizardd Member 4 Life Akron, PA Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Camman said
    I JUST got it back as a replacement for a Gigabyte board I RMAed


    Who in thier right mind would buy a giga-byte board
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited October 2003
    What are you talking about?
    Gigabyte makes solid boards.

    Overclocker-friendly is another story.
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Gnomewizardd said
    Camman said
    I JUST got it back as a replacement for a Gigabyte board I RMAed


    Who in thier right mind would buy a giga-byte board

    I've owned 3 Gigabyte boards and this was the first one I had problems with, 3 capacitors on it went bad and I think it might've been a power surge at fault, but I'm not sure, so I don't get why everyone is always trashing on Gigabyte :rolleyes2
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited October 2003
    I don't see why people trash Gigabyte's boards either, from my admittedly small experience with them. I don't know about their other mobo's, but my GA-6OXET board is one of the 2 best socket 370 boards ever made and is more overclockable than even the Abit ST6. I've had my 1.26S proc running on a 182 fsb on this board at one time(when watercooled with a 120 watt pelt).

    What everone is telling you about the NF7-S is the gospel truth, Camman. It's one great board, with all the overclocking features you need and a good board layout. When I bought mine a couple of months ago, excaliberpc was actually cheaper than newegg, delivered to the door and the shipping time was 3 days. Either company is great though.
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    some people were talking about the PCI/AGP bus running the same speed of the FSB creating a problem, but, this board has an option in it for a PCI/AGP divider, its set at /3 but has settings through /4 /5 /6 is this somehing I could take advantage of?
  • Al_CapownAl_Capown Indiana
    edited October 2003
    Gnomewizardd said
    Camman said
    I JUST got it back as a replacement for a Gigabyte board I RMAed


    Who in thier right mind would buy a giga-byte board

    This is coming from someone who owns a gb of GeiL ram? :wtf:
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    This is coming from someone who owns a gb of GeiL ram?

    Yeah, you tell 'em! :D;D

    :eek2: Oops, who am I to laugh at when it comes to Geil RAM.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Gigabyte has earned the nickname Giga****e for a reason (That's G-i-g-a-s-h-i-t-e). The boards are miserable representations of lackluster engineering. I use the double negative, which doesn't even hope to be a literary positive, for a reason. The boards, particularly for the Athlon, have horrible IRQ usage, are slower than the competition, have ****ty cooling, miserable BIOS, and a whole slew of quirky problems that don't exist on other boards. The sad owner of a 7VTXH+ (My dad's purchase :rolleyes: not mine) is a board I replaced out of my own wallet, just so I never had to deal with it again. Scant bios monitoring support, no overclocking, confusing menus, poorly-named BIOS options, quirky driver glitches all contributed to a horrible experience which I have the undoubted courtesy to repeat time and time again with numerous chipsets beyond the KT266A. Most notably, the KT400A and nForce2 boards from them, with which I've been forced to assemble client machines. The only reason I continue to place them in systems is the fact that people don't read the fine print on my contracts and realize I can charge them repair fees because Gigabyte boards violate my warranty. :ninja:

    Both overclocking and stability are more aptly represented in MSI on a budget, and in Abit if you simply wish the best.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Don't hold back, Thrax. :hrm:

    ;D
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited October 2003
    Thrax said
    Gigabyte has earned the nickname Giga****e for a reason (That's G-i-g-a-s-h-i-t-e). The boards are miserable representations of lackluster engineering. I use the double negative, which doesn't even hope to be a literary positive, for a reason. The boards, particularly for the Athlon, have horrible IRQ usage, are slower than the competition, have ****ty cooling, miserable BIOS, and a whole slew of quirky problems that don't exist on other boards. The sad owner of a 7VTXH+ (My dad's purchase :rolleyes: not mine) is a board I replaced out of my own wallet, just so I never had to deal with it again. Scant bios monitoring support, no overclocking, confusing menus, poorly-named BIOS options, quirky driver glitches all contributed to a horrible experience which I have the undoubted courtesy to repeat time and time again with numerous chipsets beyond the KT266A. Most notably, the KT400A and nForce2 boards from them, with which I've been forced to assemble client machines. The only reason I continue to place them in systems is the fact that people don't read the fine print on my contracts and realize I can charge them repair fees because Gigabyte boards violate my warranty. :ninja:

    Both overclocking and stability are more aptly represented in MSI on a budget, and in Abit if you simply wish the best.

    Thrax, does this mean that you do not like Gigabyte boards? :nudge:;D
  • TechTech
    edited October 2003
    for a reply to Mtgoat

    I ordered an Abit NF7-S from newegg appx. 2 months ago and yes they are shipping Rev 2.0's . You can be guarenteed to get a Rev 2.0 if it is not a refurb, I asked them about it prior to ordering.

    Tech
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