i knew thrax had to come in here at some point and gloat about his compusa psu. i need a new one, i blame it on my inability to overclock
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Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited October 2003
If I knew who made the CompUSA PSes, I'd be more comfortable. But I don't, so I'm not. I've got a TigerPro 300w PS in a machine at work. It's +12v line is reading in the BIOS as +12.4v (!!!). I don't even want to know what it's actually putting out. There's a fine line between "better voltages" and "too much voltage" and a lot of generic PSes overvolt stuff due to piss-poor regulation more than anything else. This is not an indicator of a quality PS. Stick with Antec, PC Power & Cooling, maybe Enermax. If you go with something else, check that it's on AMD's approved PS mfr. list. If it's not, don't get it.
Here are some good articles comparing and reviewing some of the major players in the PSU arena. Read up on it and make sure you get a good PSU, as you'll likely have it for quite a while, and stable and accurate voltages are very important with overclocking.
I've had Enermax, Vantec, and PC Power and Cooling. While I've had no problems overclocking with either of the three, the tech support for the PC Power and Cooling has been STELLAR! They are fast, polite, and very knowledgeable.
Those voltages are junk with that kind of hardware in your sig MJO. For a psu that pricey, you can ask for a lot more.
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Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited October 2003
Mackanz, what's wrong with the voltages? They're well within spec... Personally, I'd rather be slightly UNDER voltage than slightly over. Reason being that I haven't heard of anyone killing anything by giving it too little voltage yet...
Mackanz the only rail that puzzles me is the 12V rail.
It is stable at 11.80V and barely fluctuates under load.
I have my old GF2 GTS in my rig at the moment.
But the 12V is at the same level with the Radeon.
My old PSU had a 12V rail fluctuating at about 11.6-11.7 with the Radeon mounted.
My rig has not reset itself either, since I changed my PSU.
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Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited October 2003
MJO... I'd say not to worry about it. If it's stable, it's stable. If it's not, it's a problem. Like I said, I'd rather be slightly under voltage than slightly over (e.g. 3.25v, 4.95v, 11.95v) because I think it's probably slightly easier on the hardware (altho I tend to doubt it really cares all that much, as long as the votage is reasonably close to what it should be...).
Geeky1, I agree, being slightly under voltage is more healthy.
But we do not want any instabilities do we?
The 12V rail shouldn't drop any lower than where it is now.
That would concern me.
I have an ANTEC True Blue 480w PSU and it's absolutely stable.
I have noticed a low 12v rail as in the 430w above but the funny thing is that hooked to my DigiDoc 5 it reports the 12v rail as 12.06v so it makes me wonder if the mobo report is getting the 12v reference on a trace that's losing some voltage due to resistance of the copper trace...The more and more stuff they pack into mobo's these days is leading to smaller traces being utilized to maximize space.
From an electronics point of view though when the voltages sag on a system that has a regulator the regulator circuit will draw more current in an attempt to make up for the lost voltage so it can lead to burning a trace if the current the trace can carry is exceded to a big degree but I'm sure for that to happen the voltage in question would have to sag well below the 5% spec.
I'm running a Thermaltake Silent Purepower 480W and it has 2 adjustable fans in the box, that can be controlled from front or back of case. Been real happy with it.
2 @ Enermax 431W (slightly different models) in my 2 main rigs. According to MBM/HW Doctor/AsusProbe, they're rock solid voltages, VERY slightly overvolt (5.08/3.34/12.01) under full time overclocked load. Been very happy w them, one's about a year old, the other about 3 months. As SimGuy notes above, PCP&C either not available (I've yet to see one at a Cdn vendor) or silly expensive, especially with customs duty & exchange. I'll pay 1/3 the price and still have a very solid product, forgoing a few luxuries.
Geeky1 had this to say Mackanz, what's wrong with the voltages? They're well within spec... Personally, I'd rather be slightly UNDER voltage than slightly over. Reason being that I haven't heard of anyone killing anything by giving it too little voltage yet...
All the rails is under what they SHOULD be. A system is always more stable with the rails just over. If i pay $100+ for a psu, i expect the rails to stay where they should be. 12 should be 12 or just over etc. Not Under.
MJO had this to say Mackanz the only rail that puzzles me is the 12V rail.
It is stable at 11.80V and barely fluctuates under load.
I have my old GF2 GTS in my rig at the moment.
But the 12V is at the same level with the Radeon.
My old PSU had a 12V rail fluctuating at about 11.6-11.7 with the Radeon mounted.
My rig has not reset itself either, since I changed my PSU.
The GF2 you have doesn´t use any 12V at all, but the Radeon do.
12V is the least voltage that worries me, i am more concerned with the 3,3 and 5 volt rails. The more you push the system, the more the 3,3 and 5 volt lines will get stressed, not the 12. That´s where a quality psu comes in. The general psu as Antec, Enermax etc will fluctuate a lot and that is why MANY overclocked systems will lock up or reboot. If a cpu at 2.5 gig MUST have 2V or more to be stable, it is very dependant on the 5V rail and if you see the vcore fluctuate between 1.96-2.02, that can be enough for a lockup since it is the 5V that is weak and fluctuating. PC and Power psu´s never fluctuate, even at very overclocked speeds.
My Antec 412 (the old one), does have weak lines and are always under the rates. But i still like it for what it costed me. Nothing more. My 12 is at 11.88-11.98, the 5V is 4.94-4.99, 3.3 is 3.14-3.25. WAY to much fluctuation. Off course, that can also be a hardware monitor problem, but i can only use what is available to get the results if you know what i mean. With a proper voltage-reader, i could read directly from the psu.
keto had this to say 2 @ Enermax 431W (slightly different models) in my 2 main rigs. According to MBM/HW Doctor/AsusProbe, they're rock solid voltages, VERY slightly overvolt (5.08/3.34/12.01) under full time overclocked load. Been very happy w them, one's about a year old, the other about 3 months. As SimGuy notes above, PCP&C either not available (I've yet to see one at a Cdn vendor) or silly expensive, especially with customs duty & exchange. I'll pay 1/3 the price and still have a very solid product, forgoing a few luxuries.
That´s some nice rails if they are correct i must say. Are those on both Amd and Intel rigs? Enermax psu´s are known to not like Amd rigs, at least not with VIA chipsets.
1 is on P4 2.6 @ 3.3 P4C800-E DLX, 1 is on 2100+ @ 11X207 NF7-S. The readings above were on the P4, here are the readings thru HWDoctor on the AMD, 5 minute sample: 3.42-3.44/5.08-5.11/12.05-12.11. In particular, the 5v hardly ever moves. As you correctly note, it's tough to say if they're correct, this isn't a mulitmeter reading. Nonetheless, I have never had issues with stability where I could point to voltage rails as even a suspect.
That´s perhaps the best readings i have seen on a overclocked amd rig with a Enermax. I´d die to have those lines.
Keto, time to crank the fsb a little, what do you say?
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited November 2003
I have noticed a low 12v rail as in the 430w above but the funny thing is that hooked to my DigiDoc 5 it reports the 12v rail as 12.06v so it makes me wonder if the mobo report is getting the 12v reference on a trace that's losing some voltage due to resistance of the copper trace...
Now that's very interesting. I'm running a Robanton 600W PSU in my Intel rig. Motherboard monitor consistently indicates the 12V rail at 11.80. There doesn't seem to be any stability issue with this at all. 3.3v and 5.0v+ stay at 3.3-3.33 and 5.05-5.16 respectively.
Leonardo had this to say Very good, Mac. Yes, 10 devices:
2 X hard drives
Video card (the floppy connector is 12v, right?)
floppy drive
CD
CDRW
3 X case fan (all low amperage Panaflos)
CPU heatsink fan
No fans on the psu? :P
Let say that all devices uses 2 amps (some uses more, some less) that would get it to around 24-25 amps and that is what most psu´s 12V are rated at ,at full load. On top of that, the psu can´t just use the 12 rail (it would smoke pretty soon) so it is dependant on the other rails as well. 11.8 sounds pretty normal in that case to me.
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited November 2003
11.8 sounds pretty normal in that case to me
Oh, OK. That's good news. And yes, the PSU has two low-RPM fans.
Comments
IMO, 1 80mm exhaust fan is not sufficient. I prefer (and all the P4/Athlon systems I build/recommend) have at least:
2 80mm (30+cfm each) or 1 120mm (50+ cfm) exhaust next to ATX backplane
2 80mm (30+cfm each) or 1 120mm intake (50+ cfm) in front of HDD(s)
But, my CompUSA power supply is better than all THREE Antec 420s I've tried. Harhar.
And regardless of you knowing them or not, I have 150 of them deployed between 2000 and now. No computer has returned due to a bad PSU.
And really, if I put it in my computer, it doesn't suck.
Here's some links:
4-Way Power Supply Shootout: Vantec, Enermax, ThermalTake, Antec
2003 Power Supply Roundup Part II: Better Faster Cheaper
Hope that helps some.
True. However, like I said... I'm just not comfortable with "generic" PSes. I'll have to look into FMI...
This is my Antec TruePower 430W in action.
I dunno how precise this Winbond program measures the voltage though.
It is stable at 11.80V and barely fluctuates under load.
I have my old GF2 GTS in my rig at the moment.
But the 12V is at the same level with the Radeon.
My old PSU had a 12V rail fluctuating at about 11.6-11.7 with the Radeon mounted.
My rig has not reset itself either, since I changed my PSU.
But we do not want any instabilities do we?
The 12V rail shouldn't drop any lower than where it is now.
That would concern me.
I have noticed a low 12v rail as in the 430w above but the funny thing is that hooked to my DigiDoc 5 it reports the 12v rail as 12.06v so it makes me wonder if the mobo report is getting the 12v reference on a trace that's losing some voltage due to resistance of the copper trace...The more and more stuff they pack into mobo's these days is leading to smaller traces being utilized to maximize space.
From an electronics point of view though when the voltages sag on a system that has a regulator the regulator circuit will draw more current in an attempt to make up for the lost voltage so it can lead to burning a trace if the current the trace can carry is exceded to a big degree but I'm sure for that to happen the voltage in question would have to sag well below the 5% spec.
The GF2 you have doesn´t use any 12V at all, but the Radeon do.
12V is the least voltage that worries me, i am more concerned with the 3,3 and 5 volt rails. The more you push the system, the more the 3,3 and 5 volt lines will get stressed, not the 12. That´s where a quality psu comes in. The general psu as Antec, Enermax etc will fluctuate a lot and that is why MANY overclocked systems will lock up or reboot. If a cpu at 2.5 gig MUST have 2V or more to be stable, it is very dependant on the 5V rail and if you see the vcore fluctuate between 1.96-2.02, that can be enough for a lockup since it is the 5V that is weak and fluctuating. PC and Power psu´s never fluctuate, even at very overclocked speeds.
My Antec 412 (the old one), does have weak lines and are always under the rates. But i still like it for what it costed me. Nothing more. My 12 is at 11.88-11.98, the 5V is 4.94-4.99, 3.3 is 3.14-3.25. WAY to much fluctuation. Off course, that can also be a hardware monitor problem, but i can only use what is available to get the results if you know what i mean. With a proper voltage-reader, i could read directly from the psu.
That´s some nice rails if they are correct i must say. Are those on both Amd and Intel rigs? Enermax psu´s are known to not like Amd rigs, at least not with VIA chipsets.
Keto, time to crank the fsb a little, what do you say?
Now that's very interesting. I'm running a Robanton 600W PSU in my Intel rig. Motherboard monitor consistently indicates the 12V rail at 11.80. There doesn't seem to be any stability issue with this at all. 3.3v and 5.0v+ stay at 3.3-3.33 and 5.05-5.16 respectively.
How many pieces do you have that uses 12V in that rig? 10? Maybe more?
2 X hard drives
Video card (the floppy connector is 12v, right?)
floppy drive
CD
CDRW
3 X case fan (all low amperage Panaflos)
CPU heatsink fan
No fans on the psu? :P
Let say that all devices uses 2 amps (some uses more, some less) that would get it to around 24-25 amps and that is what most psu´s 12V are rated at ,at full load. On top of that, the psu can´t just use the 12 rail (it would smoke pretty soon) so it is dependant on the other rails as well. 11.8 sounds pretty normal in that case to me.
Oh, OK. That's good news. And yes, the PSU has two low-RPM fans.