550w overloaded?

revorocksrevorocks England, East Sussex, Hove Member
edited January 2008 in Hardware
i recently bought a new pc, my specs are

AMD Athlon X2 5200+
2gb ram
250gb hdd
nvidia 8500GT
ASUS M2N-e SLI

running windows xp pro service pack 2

this came with a 550w psu installed. it only came with 1 fan (for the cpu)
and it was running quite hot, around 55 degrees c. so i bought 2 80mm fans to provide some extra cooling, i mouted them, and plugged them in the 3 pin connectors on the
motherboard.. started it up and they worked fine. my system was arouind 15 degrees c cooler. the computer was fine all day. running normally.

the next day i went to start it up again. and it began starting up and just after the bios beep it suddenly turned off. i tried to turn it back on but it did the same thing. i waited for 10 mins and turned on and it booted fine. loaded up windows and everything. i went opened firefox, and then suddenly it turns off again, not shutdown, just turning off. i turned it back on, and it was fine, firefox was working and everything seemed to be ok. i launched a game (hl2 garrys mod) and when to spawn a prop, and it turned off again.

after all this i decided to remove the fans i added and sure enough, system boots fine and operates normally without random "turn-offs-"

i know it is not a virus because this only happens when the fans are plugged in. also my system is cleanof viruses and maleware.

basically i think my psu is shutting down due to too low voltage.
am i right and would a new psu fix this?

my voltage readings (without extra fans) are

Voltage CPU 1.36v
DIMM 3.33v
+5v voltage 5.07v
+12v voltage 11.33v

i have don't really know much about psu's so please help me!:mad:

thankyou.
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Comments

  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited January 2008
    You're drawing too much voltage from your motherboard with the fans. You'll need to have them plugged into your power supply at all times. Also, your 12v voltage is abysmal.

    Buy two 3 to 4 pin molex connectors to get those fans off of the motherboard, and if that doesn't resolve your issue (And bring your 12v up to 11.8 - 12.1v), you must buy a new PSU.
  • revorocksrevorocks England, East Sussex, Hove Member
    edited January 2008
    ok, the fans came with a 4 pin molex connector.

    how do i change the voltage?
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited January 2008
    You don't. Your PSU will either respond favorably to the change, thereby showing 11.8 - 12.1 (Instead of 11.3v), or it won't, and you'll need to go with a new PSU.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited January 2008
    ASUS M2N-e SLI
    Thrax, does that board have a history of power distribution problems or inadequate current (amperage) available? Two itty bitty 80mm fans should not stress a motherboard at all! This seems really, really strange.
  • revorocksrevorocks England, East Sussex, Hove Member
    edited January 2008
    well, i have wired up 1 of the fans through my hd power cable , so far everything seems to be ok. the voltages are the same as running without the fans. i have another fan but i dont know where to wire that to. i tried wireing it through the dvd rom power but the fan wont turn on until i think the dvd is being used. i have a free 4 pin connector but the fan wont work with that either.

    what should i do.

    my system seems fine with this 1 extra fan but id like to use another aswell.

    thanks very much Thrax for the help.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited January 2008
    Motherboards are notorious for hating fans connected with the 3-pin. My old NF7-S 2.0 would freak out with <i>any</i> fan on the 3-pin, and the board was otherwise a champ.

    //EDIT: If you have no more free spaces molex connectors, and your voltages have not improved, you should buy a new power supply. Something in the 480w - 540w range from Corsair will be perfect for your needs.
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited January 2008
    I agree with Thrax about buying a new psu. The 12v line on your present psu is way too low and and is out of ATX specs as it is presently. Sounds like they used an older psu that doesn't have the load carrying capability that modern motherboards need nowadays. Older boards such as the NF7S that Thrax mentioned used to carry a much higher percentage of their loads on the 5v and 3.3v lines than today's boards, which pull the majority of their power from the 12v rail. The Corsair VX450, VX550 or HX520 (modular psu) would be good choices for your system. Corsair also has a 5 year warrantee on all their psu offerings too. They aren't the cheapest around but system stability is much more important than cheaping out on your psu choice.
  • revorocksrevorocks England, East Sussex, Hove Member
    edited January 2008
    hmmm, so i should get a new psu.

    i fi got a new one that would void my 3 yr warrenty i got with my system.

    then again adding a extra fan would too, i think ill get a new psu.
    but that wont be too soon.

    i have a free 4 pin connector from my psu but if i plug in my fan on there the fans still doesnt work. do i need to let it boot up and shutdown first for the psu to give it power?
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited January 2008
    You should never plug anything into the PSU while the computer is running, as it could potentially destroy the sensitive motors in a fan, or the electronics in another accessory. As it stands, if I were in your shoes, I would leave the system powered off until the PSU is replaced. You're running the risk of under-volting components and destroying them at this point.

    If you can yell at the manufacturer for giving you a <i>terrible</i> power supply, I would do that too.
  • revorocksrevorocks England, East Sussex, Hove Member
    edited January 2008
    yea i would never plug anything in while its turned on. the problem still isnt resolved as i was typing a minute ago and it just turned of again. i have disconnected the extra fans. and i think its running ok now. like i said it has 3 yr guaruntee so if anything does go bang, i can get it fixed as long as they dont find out i added some extra fans =D. if its ok for like a month. then ill get this new psu and add the fans.

    Thanks everyone for your quick responses and help
  • revorocksrevorocks England, East Sussex, Hove Member
    edited January 2008
    ohh dear. i ave removed both the fans now and i have discovered that it is still doing it. i just got on tothe desctop then turned off \not shutdown/

    also i have discovered that it is a 500w psu not 550.

    so do oyou recon that the psu is just a pile of **** and i shouold start yelling at the company that selled it to me? :bigggrin:
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited January 2008
    Yep, if it's still under warrantee, get on the phone and yell. :D
  • revorocksrevorocks England, East Sussex, Hove Member
    edited January 2008
    well, i had a good yell today and there going to send me another 550w psu. same brand but o well. like i said if its still doing it ill get a new psu.

    they going to let me fit it my self too so they wont know in future if i get a after market one.

    thanks for your help.
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited January 2008
    BTW, what brand is labeled on the psu they used in your computer. And the UL registration number, if any?
  • revorocksrevorocks England, East Sussex, Hove Member
    edited January 2008
    its a ez cool 500w switching mode psu. as for the numbers. i dont know, i had a look and found somthing called ATX 500-jsp
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited January 2008
    I just googled up that psu and from what I've seen it looks like it would be weak for a modern system even if it does live up to it's ratings. From what I've seen it is only rated for 24 amps on the 12v rail, which is way too weak for a modern system since the mobos pull so much of their power off the 12v rail nowadays. Add to that your vid card and a few case fans all pulling off the 12v rail and you have a recipe for disaster. If they send you the same psu for a replacement I would just give up on them and get yourself a decent, modern psu. The Corsair VX450 should be more than enough to power your system and give you some headroom later for a modest vid card upgrade easily.

    Also, I found that POS for sale for less than 20 pounds, so that tells me right off it's junk. Linky
  • revorocksrevorocks England, East Sussex, Hove Member
    edited January 2008
    yea i think your right there. ill fit the one there sending me for the mean time and ill order a new one. i am on a budget though.

    how does this look? http://www.ebuyer.com/product/124922

    or maybe even this, i know its cheap as chips but it may be good...

    http://www.ebuyer.com/product/126928

    ill spend upto around £30 on a new psu. what would be best?
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited January 2008
    Now this is important, so please read the following:

    Do not cheap out on your power supply!!! I know that you are on a budget, but how much would it cost you to replace all the components in your new computer if a cheap psu blows out and sends 230v AC to all the components? And this could very well happen with a cheapo psu (like the second one you linked to).

    Of the 2 you linked, the second one is total junk and at least as cheap as the one they supplied you with in your new computer. I have no idea what kind of quality the first one you linked to is built to either. However, for just a little more than the first one you linked, you can buy a Corsair VX450 psu, which is a quality psu and will provide more than enough power to run your new machine with no problem. Unlike that cheap crap, the Corsair is rated to deliver a full 450 watts of power at 40 C, which is a realistic temp for your computer's operating temps. And while it's more expensive than even the first one you linked to, it also has a 5 year warrantee and is actually produced for Corsair by Seasonic. They also use quality 105 C rated Japanese capacitors inside, for better reliability. And the Corsair still won't break the bank as even with VAT, its £44.85. I also own the Corsair I linked you to (the American version) and it is a very good, stable psu.
  • revorocksrevorocks England, East Sussex, Hove Member
    edited January 2008
    ok, ill look around for that corsair at a cheaper price. yes your right about better to spend some more on a psu rather than every thing in to computer going boom!

    Thanks for talking some sense into me! =)

    Thanks for all your help!
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited January 2008
    Revorocks, don't hesitate posting the PSUs that strike your interest. We may seem critical and overbearing. We just don't want to see you come to grief again. An inexpensive component that doesn't last very long or that damages equipment is actually very expensive.
  • revorocksrevorocks England, East Sussex, Hove Member
    edited January 2008
    by the way, that corsair psu looks great but would this be any good, its a bit cheaper and has is 500w. also its made by antec so it should be good.

    http://www.ebuyer.com/product/114929

    let me know what you think
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited January 2008
    The Corsair is a better PSU, but the Antec Basiq 500W would also work. If you think you'll want a higher powered video card in the future, the Corsair would be a better choice. Customer reviews note that the Antec is noisy.

    Anyway, go to Newegg.com, look up both PSUs, and read the customer reviews. Those reviews are not all you need to make a selection, but will at least give you an idea of how a cross section of consumers view a computer product.
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited January 2008
    Like Leo said, the Antec will work, but the Corsair is a much better psu even though it's "rating" is 50 watts less. It has true independent regulation on all rails, uses better quality capacitors and is much more efficient to boot, which means less heat and less parasitic power consumption. The Corsair also has a much longer warrantee too. But the Antec is a better choice than the others you linked to.

    EDIT: BTW, here are some links to the specs on the Corsair and the Antec power supplies for you to look at:

    Corsair VX450

    Antec Basiq 500
  • revorocksrevorocks England, East Sussex, Hove Member
    edited January 2008
    woah, the new psu they have sent me is a pile of ****, the +12v line is now 11.27v! aAND THE +5 IS 4.96v

    man im buying that corsair soon because i dont imaging that sort of voltage can be any good for it.

    i dont know if my computer is stable yet... im on it now and it seems better... ill let you know if it persists.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited January 2008
    Based on what you report, I would agree that your new PSU is a pile of pooh. run 11.27v on your computer and you will probably experience all manner of strange performance.
  • revorocksrevorocks England, East Sussex, Hove Member
    edited January 2008
    well, at the moment im not allowed on it so i say im just testing it. anyway it seems fine, the turing off thingy has stopped and the performance seems normal. ill let you know if anything happens
  • revorocksrevorocks England, East Sussex, Hove Member
    edited January 2008
    well, it appears to be stable-ish, the turning off has gone although it does completly lock up from time to time. also it freezes for a couple of seconds every 1/2 hour or so. ill order that corsair as soon as i have the cash free.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited January 2008
    Lockups and freezes are usually a sign of overheating or program conflicts. It's probably the former. Run the computer for a while with the case side off and see if the lockups continue. If they don't, it means that your video card or CPU is overheating. Are you running any temperature and voltage monitoring software?

    UPDATE: I see that you've opened up a thread on case ventilation. We should probably concentrate on thread before we continue with this thread.
  • revorocksrevorocks England, East Sussex, Hove Member
    edited January 2008
    i deffinatly know my computer isnt overheating, yes i use speed fan and atitool, i have 8 temp moniters and the hottestt one gets to 52 c which is my gfx card. all the others are aound 20-30 c. the slight lockups i can live with, as for the crashes ill look on google, it doesnt happen often but when it does its quite irritating. especially when youve spen 4 hours trying to download crysis demo and it crashed on 95 percent...
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited January 2008
    Personally, I think your lockups and freezes are being caused by that crappy psu which is putting out such a low 12v rail. 11.27v on the 12v rail will cause all kinds of problems and is way out the ATX specs. The lowest allowable 12v rail according to the ATX specs is around 11.4v, so you are very low on that psu. Also, I would reconsider buying any further computers from the supplier that you bought this one from. They are evidently not paying attention to building quality into their machines if they put such a crappy psu in their builds. Even Dell and the other major OEM's know better than to put such garbage in their builds.
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