Please help formfactor order a new PC

FormFactorFormFactor At the core of forgotten
edited March 2008 in Hardware
After five long years of use its finally time to retire my main rig and replace her with something a little more up to date.

This Friday I will be fortunate enough to receive a rather sizable income tax return check which will afford me the opportunity to build a brand new computer.

Unfortunately I have been out of the hardware loop for quite some time, so I humbly ask the Icrontic community's expert assistance in getting the most bang for my buck.

In advance please accept my sincere appreciation for any assistance you guys can give!

Without further ado here are my desired results:

I would like to keep my budget at around $1500, however I can go slightly above or below that as needed.

I do not need a monitor or speakers or any of that, my main concern is getting a nice tower built within that budget.

I would like enough power to run the latest games at very high detail settings, as well as fold on it, and maybe some hobbyist video editing.

To save on shipping I would also prefer to order all the parts from the same retailer such as newegg, or if anyone would like to suggest a retailer, I am completely open to suggestion.

Overclocking ability a plus but not a requirement.

So can you guys suggest the best Motherboard, CPU, RAM, Video Cards, weather or not I should run dual video cards, hard drive, PSU, case, and cooling please?

I have been out of the loop so long I just dont have a clue whats hot right now.

Again thanks for reading and offering any suggestions! I'm super stoked about finally getting a new machine! :cool:
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Comments

  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    [Humble opinions]

    Mobo, something like a Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4 is very stable nowadays, lots of options and extras, good overclocking ability.
    CPU, I don't think you're going to find much better bang for buck than an Intel Q6600; if you get the G0 stepping, you start at 2.4GHz and you can fairly routinely get it to 3.2 or 3.4, and 3.6 is within reach. The only place I know of that you can be sure that you're getting the G0 is ClubIT.com, but if you just order that there and everything else from Newegg, it's not a bad deal.
    RAM, with that mobo I'm a fan of Crucial Ballistix or OCZ Platinum Rev.2, either 2 or 4 gigs; 4 gigs of good RAM will only run you $100-150, but if you get 4, you really need to run an x64 OS so it can address all of it; XP x64 or Vista x64 (and on a computer of this caliber, Vista's not at all an awful idea, I run it, so try it out for yourself if you're thinking about it) will work well for you.
    Video cards, the current top dogs are the nVidia 8800GT for $200-300 or the ATI 3870. I hear there's lots of overclocking room on the new 8800GTs.
    Dual video cards are still a matter of preference. SLi or Crossfire will cost you $300 and net you "up to" a 50% gain or something like that. I personally don't think the price/performance is up there yet.
    Hard drives, grab some Seagate 500s for data and a 74-gig Raptor for the OS if you want, or stick everything on the 500s. Personal preference again.
    PSU, a PC Power and Cooling Silencer 610 is a great value, great construction, pretty quiet; if you want more power (and I might, with these specs), the PCP&C 750 for $170 is solid, and there's a Corsair 750 with a review up on this site somewhere that's supposed to be pretty good.
    Case is up to you, but a commonly-accepted case with really good cooling is the Antec 900. You can find it below a hundred if you look for deals.
    Cooling, a Thermalright U-120 Extreme is supposed to be a fantastic cooler; I run a big-ass Scythe Infinity tower that's also very good. Match either of those with some good 70CFM fans and you'll be virtually unmatched for air cooling.

    Again, all opinions. Others will recommend other things. Give us all some good consideration!

    [/Humble opinions]
  • HarudathHarudath Great Britain Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    SLi/Crossfire isn't really worth it imo, You only really get a 10-25% performance boost and it will cost you $300 more just on graphics as MJancaitis said, which may then lead you to buying an even more expensive motherboard and PSU just to be able to use it. 8800GT/GTS/GTX/Ultra is probably the way to go, Ultra being the best available today. Personally I have an 8800GTS and it's been perfect to me so far :P Overclocked the core to 800Mhz from 650 and it's cold as ice (48C load, with a little extra cooling :tongue:). Again, Q6600 is also your best option, the Q9450 is a <i>little</i> expensive at around $350 :tongue:

    If you don't fancy spending $50-70 on a CPU heatsinc, the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro (According to reviews, I'll be buying one myself soon) does almost exactly as well for alot less: http://www.tekheads.co.uk/s/product?product=605121. (I know that link is to a UK site, but it was just for an example)
  • FormFactorFormFactor At the core of forgotten
    edited February 2008
    Thanks MJancaitis for your obviously well informed suggestions! Those specs sound fan-fricken-tastic!

    I especially took notice to your advice regarding Intel Q6600 with the G0 stepping, from ClubIT.com! Theres no way I would have known that! Ill head over there and find one now!

    Thanks again!
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    Oh, and Leo will pimp Tuniq TX-2 as your thermal interface material, and though I've never tried it, it sounds purty good. No curing time, easy to spread, equal temps compared to AS5; in my case, the research showed the gains were minimal or in AS5's favor at high temps due to overclocking, so I stuck with AS5 mostly because it's what I already had.
  • HarudathHarudath Great Britain Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    Here's the Arctic freezer 7 & 7 Pro review/tests by AnandTech http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i=3210
  • FormFactorFormFactor At the core of forgotten
    edited February 2008
    Thanks a lot for your suggestions as well Harudath. So based on your opinions, I have ruled out SLI, and I think Ill settle on the Q6600 with G0 stepping, and an nVidia 8800 GTS or Ultra.

    So this is the correct CPU I assume?
    http://clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A1938460

    Also for the video card I found 2 different 8800GTS, the only difference is price and manufacturer.

    Heres one by Leadtek for $294.99
    http://clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A9608007

    and heres one by EVGA for $309.99
    http://clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A9602869

    Is there any reason to prefer one over the other?

    Again thanks for all the great suggestions fellas, please keep them coming!
  • HarudathHarudath Great Britain Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    The GTS beats the GT by a fair bit, more stream processors, similar and in some cases faster clock speeds, infact it's better in just about every way I look at it :P Put it this way, my 7600GT (with the same system) got 3444 3Dmark06 points, my new 8800GTS overclocked got 13833 marks, and I still don't think I've reached my max :D
  • HarudathHarudath Great Britain Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    Using Stock Cooling AND a $20 Vantec Dual 80mm Adjustable PCI fan card I can keep my temps on the graphics down really low. They should be about 90 and they're less than 50 at all times :tongue:
  • FormFactorFormFactor At the core of forgotten
    edited February 2008
    Also MJancaitis, I have a couple of questions about your mobo and RAM suggestions if you dont mind...

    First on the motherboard, I was unable to find a GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS4, however I did locate the following GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS4.
    http://clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A4830731

    Are you aware of any differences in the *P35* *EP35* models?

    Also, I am not sure of the exact RAM specs I would need for that board.

    Would I need DDR2 1200, DDR2 1000, DDR3 1866, or something else? Also are there any specific timings I should shoot for?
  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    Yup, I used TX-2 per leo's suggestion and it was effortless, especially for my first time not to use a pad.
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    I've never heard of the E series, perhaps somebody else can help you with those.

    Alternatively, these are also well-recommended: the Asus P5K-E, the abit IP35 Pro, I run the GA-X38-DQ6, and the Asus Maximus is really well-received (but now we're getting into much higher cost).

    RAM is based on the mobo, but with both the Gigabyte ones I mentioned, DDR2-800 is what you're looking for, or DDR2-1066 if you want to spend a little more. Good DDR2-800 can be OCd to 1066 or better anyway, though. Lower timings are better. Show us what you're considering and we can tell you a bit more about it or give recommendations.

    Frankly, if at all possible, I'd get everything else from Newegg but the processor. Better selection and layout, to me. Somebody else might be able to tell you what that E is for, though. :)
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    Nice find on that Q6600 G0 - great price. You need look no further for a CPU. There is just zero competition with the Q6600 at that price.

    GA-X38-DQ6 - great board! GA-P35-DS4 (if you can find it) is also excellent. In my experience the heat pipe passive cooling implemented on the Gigabyte motherboards is worth the extra cost. It really works well. The Gigabyte X38 boards have matured enough now that they should be just as stable and high performance as Gigabyte's P35 boards, which have an earned a solid reputation for high performance with the same degree of stability. The are also very easy to set up.

    TX-2 thermal paste. At high overclocking, I'd put AS5 and TX-2 neck and neck, perhaps a 1C advantage to TX-2. Frankly, I'm done with AS5. Why bother with thermal cycling and 'curing' when the competition doesn't need it? Another good paste, but not for high overclocking, is Zalman's paste. You just brush it on with the supplied fingernail polish-type brush. So simple. It is not good enough for upper end overclocking, but it's just fine for default clock speeds up to moderate overclocking.

    Which brings up a question: Do you think you might be overclocking your new beast in the future? If yes, let's look for premium CPU heatsinks and RAM with lots of headroom. If no, then we can save you a bit of money on cooling hardware and RAM.

    Did I miss it - do you have a power supply in mind? Recommend: OCZ, Corsair, Thermalright Purepower series, FSP. In my view, OCZ and Corsair have the most attractive lines out. Hiper used to be attractive, but if one believes the Newegg customer reviews, failure rates on Hipers are atrocious.
  • FormFactorFormFactor At the core of forgotten
    edited February 2008
    Okay, I found what the E means.

    According to this article, the Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS4 sits alongside the GA-P35-DS4 in Gigabyte's extensive range of P35 chipped motherboards. The difference between the two models is that extra letter E in the model code which stands for Energy.

    So evidently it has some energy conservation features. I also ran across a piece stating that the 2.1 revision of the GA-P35-DS4 board is identical to the GA-EP35-DS4.

    Ill shop around and post my findings.
  • FormFactorFormFactor At the core of forgotten
    edited February 2008
    Hey Leonardo! Thanks for the reply!

    In response to your question about overclocking, yes I would like the ability to OC down the road. Even if I never actually get around to OCing, its worth a few extra bucks for the piece of mind of knowing that if I do want to overclock, my hardware should support it.

    I will also follow your suggestion on the TX-2 paste, sounds like the way to go.

    And I have yet to decide on a PSU, nor am I very knowledgeable on that subject, so if you have a suggestion of a specific model I am all ears. I'm not real concerned with the quality of the PSU. I would just like the most affordable:stable PSU.

    So just a recap on what I have decided on so far:

    CPU: Q6600 with G0
    Mobo: GA-EP35-DS4
    Video Card: nVidia 8800 GTS.
    Thermal Paste: TX-2

    So I am still deciding exactly which RAM, Case, PSU, cooling, and HDDs to get.

    A note on a RAM decision, I would prefer 4GB over 2GB, but are their any major cons with using a 64bit OS as far as performance, or software/hardware compatibility? Also would there be a noticable performance increase with DDR2 1200 over DDR2 800? It looks like DDR2 800 kits are much more affordable.

    Again I thank everyone for their prompt expert responses. You guys have been extremely helpful!
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    FF, I have the GA-P35-DS4 r2.0. It's an excellent board. I'm coaxing a 900MHz overclock out of a B-3 stepping Q6600 with the DS4. On the north bridge I'm only using the stock passive cooling. I didn't even remove the assembly for thermal paste replacement. It's a great looking board too, and BIOS is not difficult to set up.

    Muddoktor can give you his opinion on the Gigabyte X38 chipset board. If prices are close, I'd probably go for X38. It might perform better with successive Intel Quad series - namely Yorkfield (45nm), if you later upgraded the CPU. If you think you'll keep the system with few upgrades over the mid-term, either the P35 or X38 chipsets will see you through nicely.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    Overclocking:

    1) CPU cooler. The TR Ultra 120/Extreme are excellent. I think you need look no further. If you'd like to spend $10 to $20 less and have close to the same performance, there are several other coolers that come close but don't occupy the top position.
    2) DRAM. I'll not advise you on that. I usually get budget RAM or mid-range and just use memory/FSB BIOS dividers, keeping the RAM within 10% of spec. Others enjoy more OC flexibility and can advise you better with respect to overclocking RAM.
    3) PSU - DON'T SKIMP ON THIS! OCZ, CORSAIR, FSP. Prices can vary quite a bit, depending on what options you want, such as sleeved and modular cabling. Look at reviews - both tech site and customers' reviews. You can hardly go wrong though with OCZ and Corsair.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    I recommend a 2x2GB 1000 or 1066 package. It's economical, and gives you plenty of headroom to raise the FSB above and beyond what most quads can handle.
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    FWIW, I have OCing experience on both the DS4 and the X38-DQ6, which I now own. My OC on the DS4 was a LOT easier and required a lot less voltage than the DQ6 is doing right now, but I like the DQ6 a lot more thanks to the extra cooling and whatnot.

    Give a serious look at the PSUs I mentioned, PCP&C and Corsair are two of the best names as far as high-quality, stable power.

    If you're looking at X38, the buzz is you might want to wait for X48 anyhow. Me, I'm having a lot of fun with my X38, so it's all on you and what you want to do. P35 is good and stable, X38 is fun and a bit of a performance increase, and X38 will give you some better futureproofing, but only for a couple years.
  • FormFactorFormFactor At the core of forgotten
    edited February 2008
    Alright fellaz, based on your suggestions, heres what I have come up with:

    Case: LOGISYS Computer CS888CL Transparent Clear Acrylic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $59.99
    (aint she purty?)

    CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 Stepping Kentsfield 2.40GHz 8MB L2 LGA 775 Processor $249.99

    Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS4 LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Dynamic Energy Saver Ultra Durable II Intel Motherboard - Retail $169.99
    (I looked into the GA-X38-DQ6 as well which was considerably more expensive so I'll probably go with the EP35)

    Video Card: EVGA 512-P3-N841-AR GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail $289.99

    PSU: OCZ StealthXStream OCZ500SXS ATX12V / EPS12V 500W Power Supply - Retail $61.99

    RAM: OCZ Platinum Edition 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2P10004GK - Retail $129.99

    Primary Hard Disk: Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM $169.99

    Storage Hard Disk: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM $119.99

    Thermal Paste: Tuniq TX-2 Thermal Compound - Retail $3.99

    CPU Cooling: ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler - Retail $26.99
    (looked for a The TR Ultra 120 but looks like Newegg has them listed as out of stock).

    So thats what I came up with. In total it will come to $1282.90 plus shipping, so I didn't even go over budget! :cool:

    Could you guys please check over my list to see if I made any mistakes, or if you have any suggestions?

    Again guys thanks for your expert opinions! I am quite confident I am getting the best bang for my buck thanks to your help!
  • HarudathHarudath Great Britain Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    Looks perfect to me... I'm jealous now :tongue:
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    No offense, but the cooling on that case isn't that fabulous. A trio of 80mms was good for 2002.

    The heatsink you picked isn't going to do your overclocking any favors. If the U120 was out of stock, try the Tuniq or Scythe heatsinks.
  • HarudathHarudath Great Britain Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    Aye, Thrax is right again :P Ideally an Antec 900 Or a Coolermaster would be good. Although I don't think the heatsinc would be <i>so</i> bad, according to reviews it does as well as the U-120, well, I'll be getting one myself soon so I'll let you guys see how that goes :tongue:
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    Nice! You will really like that Gigabyte motherboard. Gigabyte is quite a different company than they were when you last built a computer.
    I recommend a 2x2GB 1000 or 1066 package. It's economical, and gives you plenty of headroom to raise the FSB above and beyond what most quads can handle.
    You know, Thrax is right. RAM is so dirt cheap these days, don't even mess around with the DDR 800 or 667.

    The Arctic Freezer 7 Pro is probably the best heatsink you can get for that price, and probably better than some that cost more.
    PCP&C and Corsair are two of the best names as far as high-quality, stable power
    Agreed. Don't dismiss OCZ's very attractive lineup. The seem to have a good quality PSU for every power and configuration need. PC Power & Cooling. Quality for sure, but I'm seeing some reviews calling them noisy once the power demands get high. For some reason, PCP&C has not taken to 120/140mm cooling fans like other makers.
  • FormFactorFormFactor At the core of forgotten
    edited February 2008
    Thanks for the info Thrax.

    Do you have any suggestions on how I can improve cooling in that case? Maybe just replace the fans with better ones?

    Also I found these two Scythe CPU coolers:
    Scythe SCNJ-1100P 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler - Retail $39.99

    Scythe SCINF-1000 120mm CPU Cooler - Retail $39.99

    Are you familiar enough with those models to suggest one over the other?

    Thanks again!
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    Alright, Leo spends more than 30 seconds scanning your post and here comes another "Me, too" thread from Leo. 1) 80mm fan case cooling is a relic from the AMD K6 and Pentium 2 days. Obsolete. 2) CPU cooler. You stated you want to overclock. Yes, the Arctic coolers are very good stock unit replacements, but you won't find many serious overclockers using them. The best you might expect from one is perhaps mid-range overclocking if your room never gets too warm.
  • FormFactorFormFactor At the core of forgotten
    edited February 2008
    Ok, that makes sense. Is there anything I can do to improve cooling in that case? Or might it be a better to scrap that case in favor of a different one?
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    That Infinity you just posted is the one I have, helps my OC just fine.

    Also, I don't know, perhaps others can chip in, but is 500W enough for this setup? Wouldn't a 600 or 750 give him some more headroom?

    I personally would get the most fan-ridden case you can find, but if you want an easy answer, the 900 is both one hell of a bargain and a very good cooling profile.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    Improve the cooling in that clear case? Hmm - cut holes in the front and back for 120mm fans or leave the side off - that's about you could do. I've cut plenty of holes in aluminum and steel and I've also cut Plexiglass panels; but I don't think you could modify that case much without ruining it - well, I am speaking for myself. If you have your heart set on a clear case, maybe you can find one with a modern design. Or get a nice windowed case, a modify a case and install a window.
  • DonutDonut Maine New
    edited February 2008
    Same as Leo and Thrax,

    Do yourself a favor and find a case you like with at least a 120mm exhaust. If you get one with fans on the side window be aware a tower style HS may not fit with a fan installed in a window.

    Heatsinks, shop around. SVC had the U-120 in stock, and a few other companys had them also. I was looking yesterday as my Ninja is barely able to cool a b3 quad. It was perfect for a dual-core though.
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI Icrontian
    edited February 2008
    ^ Ah, good point. In fact, I had to Dremel a corner off one of my fans so it would fit in the side slot underneath the Infinity. Easy enough to do and improves airflow, but a chore you might not want to do nonetheless.
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