building a budget gaming PC....need memory suggestions

MrWyndMrWynd
edited December 2003 in Hardware
...a friend of mine wants me to build him a PC for gaming, etc. He wants a P4, not AMD. He wants it cheap with decent quality (games dont need to be on high quality)

I was looking at this motherboard:

Abit PT800 Motherboard for Intel Pentium® 4 Processors, Model "VI7" Retail

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-163&catalog=280&depa=1

If I get this motherboard, what type of memory should I get with it? Would it be better to go with a different motherboard for a budget PC?
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Comments

  • ketoketo Occupied. Or is it preoccupied? Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    I really REALLY want you to get an IS7, which has the 865 Intel chipset, rather than the VIA chipset board, for multiple reasons:
    -the user base is huge, if you or he have problems, tons of resources to draw from
    -Intel chipset
    -has Abit's version of PAT, a total system 'booster' normally found only on the more expensive 875 chipset boards

    Yes, it's $35 more and if cost is THAT tight, well, it's that tight ie, if you HAVE to, go cheaper than the IS7.

    Memory: if you go the IS7, you definitely want to run dual channel, so 2 DIMM's @ 256MB I'm gonna guess, PC3200 to run @ default fsb speed 1:1. The cheapest of the 'cheap' memory that anyone here would recommend is probably the $38 Buffalo PC3200 256MB - it's CAS3 tho, so if you can afford better in this configuration, do so. Buffalo's CAS2.5 is only a buck more per stick...Kingston Value RAM CAS 2.5 another 2 bucks...then if still below budget start looking at CAS2, probably Corsair & Kinston HyperX are going to be the cheaper CAS2 modules, both can be purchased as 'matched pairs'. I'd pass on the cheaper Geil and OCZ PC3200 CAS2 and go straight to the HyperX @ 58/stick.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Cheap, Intel... Does not compute.

    /me 's head explodes
    Anyways. I urge the purchasing of the IS7, as the VIA chipsets for any platform currently worth buying are in cahoots with crappy performance.

    I would also NOT cheap out on memory, and atleast get 256 of Corsair XMS/Kingston KHX memory. PC3200. Intel platforms love bandwidth and tight timings when possible.. Might as well give that to it.

    Maybe a p4 2.6C, and a Radeon 9500 Pro if you can find it.
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited December 2003
    Stay away from the VIA chipsets for the P4 platform. For best performance with the 800MHz FSB P4 CPU's of today, choose a motherboard based on the SpringDale i865PE or CanterWood i875P chipsets.

    The ABIT IC7, IC7-MAX3, IS7, Asus P4P800 or P4C800-E Deluxe are your premiere choices of motherboards. Skimping on the motherboard can lead to problems down the road, so its' best to invest in something reliable, which these 5 models are.

    Memory wise? Minimum 2x256 MB of any PC3200 DDR SDRAM. Why? First, if your friend isn't overclocking, he doesn't need anything faster. Second, P4's love memory bandwidth and require that Dual-Channel DDR be engaged in order to get the best performance from the system. Single-Channel DDR cannot provide adequate memory bandwidth to the CPU, and your system will slow down due to the CPU being starved of data.

    Memory brands? Buffalo, Corsair XMS, Kingston HyperX or, if you are in a pinch, even Apacer works.

    CPU of choice: the 2.6 is the cheapest & slowest P4 available today (well, AFAIK they discontinued the 2.4).

    Video card: Depending on budget, a 9500 Pro, 9600XT or a refurbished 9700/9700 Pro all make great budget cards and offer adequate performance (still damned impressive). :)
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Tell your friend that he has a rectal cranial inversion problem, and that he may want to consult with a proctologist to aid in finding his head.

    The P4-C is a decent CPU, but it is not a budget processor by any means. ANY other current Intel chip is a waste of money. The P4-Celeron is crippled, and the P4-B/-As are too slow for their price.

    Regardless, if your friend insists on keeping his head up his @ss, get an ABIT IS7 and some good ram; I hear the Corsair XMS is great for the P4... Corsair is another obvious choice. Samsung ram is great, but it doesn't always overclock very well.
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited December 2003
    Geeky1 had this to say
    Tell your friend that he has a rectal cranial inversion problem, and that he may want to consult with a proctologist to aid in finding his head.

    The P4-C is a decent CPU, but it is not a budget processor by any means. ANY other current Intel chip is a waste of money. The P4-Celeron is crippled, and the P4-B/-As are too slow for their price.

    Regardless, if your friend insists on keeping his head up his @ss, get an ABIT IS7 and some good ram; I hear the Corsair XMS is great for the P4... Corsair is another obvious choice. Samsung ram is great, but it doesn't always overclock very well.

    Maybe this could explain my headaches...
  • EgoShowcaseEgoShowcase North Carolina
    edited December 2003
    If you want Cheap fast ram you could get geil ram. Its a reliable ram if you get a working stick.(havent tried it out tho, info from the reviews)
    Or you could spend the extra $ and get Corsair XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200C2PT - OEM.
    It hasent let me down yet and on a nf7s mobo ive got the timeings to 2-2-2-3

    http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?DEPA=1&sumit=Go&description=20%2D144%2D305&searchdepa=1

    Edit: Link for Corsair.
    http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?DEPA=1&sumit=Go&description=20%2D145%2D420&searchdepa=1
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Yeah, probably.

    Don't get me wrong, SimGuy. I like the P4-C; I've been wanting one for a while. But spending $170 on a CPU for a system I'd build just for the hell of it is out of the question. I want one, but not that badly.

    However, it is NOT a budget CPU. It's just not. Anyone that wants a budget gaming system should pick up a NF7-S, an 1800+ JIUHB DLT3C, a SLK-900, a 66CFM YSTech fan, a decent case & PS, and a Radeon 9500 or better.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Its a reliable ram if you get a working stick.

    ROFL. ;D;D;D
  • EgoShowcaseEgoShowcase North Carolina
    edited December 2003
    Check the reviews. Like wining the lotery. Thers a chane of geting a good one
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited December 2003
    Some people just don't trust AMD. Don't ask me why they don't, as they make kick-ass products, but some people are set in their ways enough to only want Intel products.

    An example of Marketing over Engineering at its finest.

    Budget Gaming System? P4 2.0B, i865PE, Retail heatsink, dual-channel DDR266 and Radeon 9500 Pro.
  • EgoShowcaseEgoShowcase North Carolina
    edited December 2003
    Yea thay just want name brand products. I once was that was (ask clutch) but i have seen the light and it is AMD
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    You thought about just putting an AMD chip in it and not telling them, and seeing how long it takes them to notice?

    By the way, I'm not arguing with your point on Geil RAM, I just think saying "it's great, if it works" is very funny.
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    AMD is a name brand... ;)

    AMD has actually been around longer than Intel.
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited December 2003
    GHoosdum had this to say
    AMD is a name brand... ;)

    AMD has actually been around longer than Intel.

    Company creation dates,

    Intel, July 18, 1968.

    AMD, May 1, 1969.

    ;)
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Actually, SimGuy, a budget Intel system is a:
    1.7GHz Celeron
    Via P4M-266 board
    128MB PC2100
    Integrated graphics, audio, LAN
    20GB 5400RPM HD
    52x CD
    Cheapest case & ps you can find
    No case fans

    Hey, it's a gaming system... it'll run stuff at 320x240 in 16 colors :D

    In all seriousness, if he HAS to have Intel, get him a P3. What is his budget? Are we talking a $300 budget system, or a $1500 "budget" system?
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited December 2003
    Geeky1 had this to say
    Actually, SimGuy, a budget Intel system is a:
    1.7GHz Celeron
    Via P4M-266 board
    128MB PC2100
    Integrated graphics, audio, LAN
    20GB 5400RPM HD
    52x CD
    Cheapest case & ps you can find
    No case fans

    Hey, it's a gaming system... it'll run stuff at 320x240 in 16 colors :D

    In all seriousness, if he HAS to have Intel, get him a P3. What is his budget? Are we talking a $300 budget system, or a $1500 "budget" system?

    And I suppose a comparable AMD budget gaming system would be a K5 PR133 processor with 32 MB of FP 70ns DRAM with onboard Rage Pro Turbo graphics?

    Duron -vs- Celeron.
    AXP -vs- P3/P4.
    A64 -vs- P4, P4EE & Xeon.

    Remember, the P4 2.0's don't get smacked by the Tualatin's @ 1.4. It's only under 2.0 that the P4's get smacked around, and even still that's only the Willamettes. The FSB bump and cache enhancements gave the P4 Northwood added strength to distance itself from the Tualatin, sealing the fate of the P3 once and for all.

    Checked the price on a Tualatin and an FC-PGA2 motherboard lately? Oh yeah... SDR PC133 8ns really sucks for bandwidth. So does ATA/66.

    Anyways, back on topic. Cheap Intel systems can be had, but not for as cheap as comperable AMD systems.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    My Tualatin FC-PGA board was $90. It has DDR, supports dual CPUs, up to 4gb of unregistered DDR, AGP 4x, ATA-100, and 2 ATA-100 RAID ports. My Tualatin Celeron was $43. And it'll outperform a <2GHz P4.
  • BudBud Chesterfield, Va
    edited December 2003
    Geeky1 where did you get the dual mobo and can celerons run dual normally or did you have to mod?
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Newegg refurbished, and Celerons cannot run dual CPUs, period.

    Only the early (~300MHz) slot Celerons could. Every one since then has been set up to not allow it, and there's no way to enable it.

    I bought the dual CPU board so I could upgrade to dual P3-1.4S CPUs when they come down in price.
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited December 2003
    Umm.... remember the ABIT BP6?

    i440BX dual Socket 370 motherboard?

    You could run PPGA Celeron CPU's in dual on that board, all the way up 1000 MHz (max multiplier settings for the BP6 were 133x8.)
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Hmm. My mistake. I didn't think the PPGA Celerons were SMP-capable. I know they locked them soon thereafter, though.

    But to get back on topic, depending on your friend's budget, they may really be much better off with an AMD system. How much were they looking at spending?
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Wow looks like SimGuy got us both with the knowledge today! hehehe

    Doesn't change the facts: AMD is lower priced for a similar performance level, 95% of the time.
  • Josh-Josh- Royal Oak, MI
    edited December 2003
    Geeky1 had this to say
    Tell your friend that he has a rectal cranial inversion problem, and that he may want to consult with a proctologist to aid in finding his head.

    The P4-C is a decent CPU, but it is not a budget processor by any means. ANY other current Intel chip is a waste of money. The P4-Celeron is crippled, and the P4-B/-As are too slow for their price.

    Regardless, if your friend insists on keeping his head up his @ss, get an ABIT IS7 and some good ram; I hear the Corsair XMS is great for the P4... Corsair is another obvious choice. Samsung ram is great, but it doesn't always overclock very well.
    Why Intel! :( WHY!

    This budget system,..you know what the moneys going to right?
    Look down..
    \/ \/ \/
  • MrWyndMrWynd
    edited December 2003
    how bout this mobo:

    ABIT Intel 848P Chipset Motherboard for Pentium 4 Processors, Model "IS7-V" RETAIL ($82)

    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-161&catalog=280&depa=1

    and this memory x2:

    Buffalo Technology 184 Pin 256MB DDR PC-3200 - OEM x2 ($38 x2)

    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-150-596&catalog=147&depa=1
  • MrWyndMrWynd
    edited December 2003
    if anyone would like to give an example of an AMD system to compare this setup to, I can show it to my friend.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    What's his budget? I'll see what I can come up with if you'll give me a budget...

    Regardless, if he ABSOLUTELY HAS to have a P4, get him an i865PE board, and the RAM is going to depend on the system... is he going to overclock?
  • ketoketo Occupied. Or is it preoccupied? Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    The IS7-V is the crippled/partially disabled SINGLE channel version of the 865, the chipset is known as 848XX so no go, or at least not recommended compared to dual channel.
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited December 2003
    MrWynd had this to say
    how bout this mobo:

    ABIT Intel 848P Chipset Motherboard for Pentium 4 Processors, Model "IS7-V" RETAIL ($82)

    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-161&catalog=280&depa=1

    and this memory x2:

    Buffalo Technology 184 Pin 256MB DDR PC-3200 - OEM x2 ($38 x2)

    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-150-596&catalog=147&depa=1

    No. To put it bluntly, that motherboard is an underperforming piece of ****.

    Like I said before, pair the P4 with an i865PE motherboard.

    ABIT IS7 or ASUS P4P800.

    The memory... it's fine. As long as you purchase 2 sticks of PC3200 for dual channel operation. If your friend isn't overclocking, that memory is good stuff. :)
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited December 2003
    GHoosdum had this to say
    Wow looks like SimGuy got us both with the knowledge today! hehehe

    Doesn't change the facts: AMD is lower priced for a similar performance level, 95% of the time.

    That I can't dispute, as it's the cold, hard truth. :D
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited December 2003
    Simguy, when did they start disabling SMP in the Celerons?
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