To be fair, the games you cited were designed for the Xbox 360 (a 5+ year-old custom Radeon card), and then ported to the PC with little modification. It's no surprise that your system can handle them: the games were built for hardware of your era.
Might have misread, they can't handle them - CPU chugs along since they're so processor intensive. It's quickly becoming my bottleneck, I think.
I personally buy hardware that will let me crank everything up, because I get grumpy when it doesn't look the best that it can. Others are happy with muddy textures and jagged edges, and bewilderingly think it looks okay.
I would subscribe to this model as well, would that change your recommendations for CPU/Chipset above? Perhaps I should consider overclockability?
There is a prevailing belief (which you implied) that a Core 2 Duo or a Core 2 Quad is still a fine CPU choice. It is, if you're happy with console ports or low detail levels. If you're not, you'll find newer generations of CPUs are considerably faster, on the order of 2-3x when paired with a modern DX11 GPU.
This is indeed what I was speaking towards, but was unsure how true it was. Interesting to know, though.
ah my bad, thought AMD 6320 IGP, not Intel E6320 ... Also, don't you have an M11x, isn't that a capable gaming laptop?
Ah, gotcha - was unsure how you got so confused...just goes to further the numbering scheme woes. Yes, I have an m11x, but this desktop puts that thing to shame. They serve different purposes, desktop is my everyday gaming workhorse, the laptop travels with me and provides the same gaming comfort wherever I go.
If you are going for mondo upgrade (i.e. complete rebuild), you should hang out till Q12012 when you'll be able to look at new offerings from both AMD, Intel, and NVIDIA (and, presumably, prices will drop on current gen hardware). If you are wanting to get a good system now, Thrax already done told you what to do. Greg's rec on getting an SSD is also big plus, but not as bottlenecked. Just prevents long loading screens. My steam games are all on a raptor 10k and a few lucky ones are on the SSD. I'd probably kill someone for a Vertex 3.
FWIW, I have a SSD, I'd like to purchase something more current gen than an E series C2D (thanks though), I'll get more RAM with the new chipset.
Would a second 5850 be worth it? I've debated just that, but they're so ridiculously priced it's insane. Just figured I'd say the hell with it and buy something more powerful...seems like a better use of money.
The 5850 is about $20 too high for the performance, true. Not surprising, though, as they're no longer produced.
If you got another one, though, you'd get pretty spectacular scaling with CrossFire. 'Round 84-95% if I recall the numbers I last saw.
Except for the Radeon HD 6990 ($699), there's no single GPU upgrade that's faster than 2x5800 Series cards. CrossFire is a very powerful price/performance solution, even though people don't readily equate it that way. Even in the 6000 Series, a pair of Radeon 6870s for $350 can only be eclipsed by the 6990.
Unfortunately yes, I can verify that my TV doesn't pass through 5.1. It was a sad day in my apartment. If I had to move up to mini-ITX to satisfy my optical audio request, are there any options you would hands-down recommend over the others in the E350 family? I think I might be interested in this little enclosure.
I am planning on doing a build using this board. I haven't seen anything else that meets my requirements and looks any better. Need dual socket with support of 8-core chips, Raid 5 or 10(prefer 5), sas support, prefer to have a few PCI-e.
I am planning on doing a build using this board. I haven't seen anything else that meets my requirements and looks any better. Need dual socket with support of 8-core chips, Raid 5 or 10(prefer 5), sas support, prefer to have a few PCI-e.
You might look at the ASUS KGPE. PCIe 16x/8x/8x, socket G34 for up to 12 cores per socket, RAID0/1/5/10. SAS is optional, I believe.
It's the only other board I know of that fits most of your needs.
You shouldn't, but it seems to me that most of the games you play are from that era, so it makes sense that your computer does fine.
That's true. What's come out recently that's worth an upgrade? Seems like TF2's resurgence has been the biggest influx of gaming to IC lately. Other stuff like Minecraft and KSP don't seem to make a case?
I'm legit not aware of anything worth upgrading for, but I haven't been keeping up.
Where are you getting the raid from on that board? It does not appear to have anything built in with the SATA controller and then to get support you would have to buy their PIKE system for the board. Which to get a raid 5, PIKE 6480, would be 150-200 and stuck with their board to use that expansion.
After seeing the kind of QA ASUS does with their retail boards I question their server equipment and there were a large number of people having issues with booting with GPUs and the machine not posting randomly some times.
Ya that ASUS is the only other newegg board that pulls up for dual G34 and the only other board I have found is a Supermicro which I would only use as a foot rest.
From what I can tell, hardly anything utilizes enough RAM to warrant the purchase. Plus, since this chipset is already end of life'd, it find it hard to shell out the cash for another stick of RAM when I know it's ultimately not worth the trouble.
I have a C2D-based Celeron in my home rig, and going from 2gb to 6gb made all the difference in the world. It is night and day. If you decide to put off a major upgrade, getting a little more RAM in the meantime may be worthwhile.
The biggest difference that I've noticed is Civ5 starts up quicker, plays smoother, and shuts down two minutes faster (which is to say instantly, now). My system used to be frustratingly unresponsive while it played shell games with virtual memory.
You must not have an unhealthy tab habit like I do. Browsers are the biggest RAM hog in my usage.
Where are you getting the raid from on that board? It does not appear to have anything built in with the SATA controller and then to get support you would have to buy their PIKE system for the board. Which to get a raid 5, PIKE 6480, would be 150-200 and stuck with their board to use that expansion.
You're right. I didn't see that a PIKE card was required for some RAID modes. However, the SP5100 chipset itself supports RAID0/1/10.
That's true. What's come out recently that's worth an upgrade? Seems like TF2's resurgence has been the biggest influx of gaming to IC lately. Other stuff like Minecraft and KSP don't seem to make a case?
I'm legit not aware of anything worth upgrading for, but I haven't been keeping up.
What games do you like to play? Civ5 is awesome, and brutal on hardware. Shogun 2. Metro 2033. DA2 requires some oomph to get the details up at 1080p and so on.
Battlefield 3 is DX11 only, and is going to be pretty painful for people.
That's true. What's come out recently that's worth an upgrade? Seems like TF2's resurgence has been the biggest influx of gaming to IC lately. Other stuff like Minecraft and KSP don't seem to make a case?
I'm legit not aware of anything worth upgrading for, but I haven't been keeping up.
There's this sweet game that turned one year old today
I keep up to date with PC technology, obviously. My rig is a perfect gaming PC at the moment. However - sound.
I'm a home entertainment audiophile. I've always loved having the best sound possible at my PC with digital output and the like. I've used a SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS card for a long time because I loved the funcitons with it, and the software was outstanding. Creative Labs, sucking the way they do, never provided Vista+ drivers for the board. Hacked drivers gave me some functionality, but the card finally died shortly after I moved to California.
I've been using 5.1 onboard + digital on my Gigabyte motherboard since then, and I frigging hate it. Support in games is bare minimum, digital output options are lacking (proper 96/24 doesn't work with films) and the software totally blows. Plus, with all of the specialized types of recording that I do for video/3D work, I really need more control. I know many people are happy with onboard sound these days, but I simply am not.
So I'm a bit out of touch with sound cards, considering I haven't looked at the market since I bought the Audigy 2 ZS. I'm ready to buy a new one, but I don't want to buy Creative Labs. I've come to loathe that company for a variety of reasons, so I'd prefer to give my money to someone else. Thing is, I've only used CL soundcards, so I don't know where to begin on alternatives. Also, are EAX effects and other gaming audio technologies available on other sound boards? I'd really rather not give up EAX without an acceptable alternative.
This is a tricky one for me, as I only use headphones, and I continue to be very happy with the line out quality on the last 2-3 motherboards I've owned. Maybe I got lucky, but none of them have had line noise, or the faintest hint of crackling, even when amplified by an altoid amp. As for digital audio, all my needs are met with the HDMI output on a Radeon, so I've no experience with modern spdif/optical sound systems and the soundcards that drive them.
I would look to reviews of the Asus Xonar series, specifically the Xense or the Essence STX. I'm told they are quite good.
AFAIK, Asus has some sort of technology that can intercept EAX calls and output a reasonable facsimile, but I've not read much about it.
If you are not going to use CL products and want a retail sound card buy a Xonar, no questions. Just look at the cards and they say buy me I will treat you right.
You're right. I didn't see that a PIKE card was required for some RAID modes. However, the SP5100 chipset itself supports RAID0/1/10.
Yes, Asus requires a proprietary PIKE card which is hard to find and prone to failure (to put it mildly.) IOW: not even the awesomeness of the SP5100 can save you from Asus' bad design corrupting or losing your data. The PIKE is one of the worst implemented bad ideas to ever come out of anywhere. You'd be better off throwing neodymium magnets at your hard drives, no joke.
Ya that ASUS is the only other newegg board that pulls up for dual G34 and the only other board I have found is a Supermicro which I would only use as a foot rest.
Then you're doing it wrong; besides, Newegg's server selection is absolute garbage.
If you're going to do dual G34 for workstation, this is the board to do it with. SR5690+SP5100 with triple PCIe 16x full bandwidth spaced specifically for CrossFire configuration with HD6970's. You could use the H8DGi as well, I s'pose, but the LSI2008 SAS is pretty hardcore and does alternate reads. (However, the RAID5 is painfully slow.)
So I'm a bit out of touch with sound cards, considering I haven't looked at the market since I bought the Audigy 2 ZS. I'm ready to buy a new one, but I don't want to buy Creative Labs. I've come to loathe that company for a variety of reasons, so I'd prefer to give my money to someone else. Thing is, I've only used CL soundcards, so I don't know where to begin on alternatives. Also, are EAX effects and other gaming audio technologies available on other sound boards? I'd really rather not give up EAX without an acceptable alternative.
EAX is a 100% proprietary "technology" created by Creative Labs to foster lock-in, back before they became complete garbage. No other card can do EAX without a license to do so from Creative, and they grant no licenses, ever. People have tried for years. The closest you'll get are the cards that claim to be better than the Audigy or X-Fi despite being quite literally clones of Creative Audigy or X-Fi themselves. (And 100% dependent on Creative's drivers, which are notoriously awful.)
But let's be honest; what's EAX actually get you? The truth is, compared to standard 5.1, pretty much nothing these days. Blah blah "ambient improvements" blah blah "DSP" etcetera. Well, everyone and their brother has a DSP. Sensaura got absorbed and for some idiotic reason moved into 3DLabs (WHY?!) Even Creative has abandoned EAX largely for it's ALchemy successor; except people aren't really doing anything with ALchemy, including Creative; it doesn't work on 64-bit systems period, it doesn't work with any game using Steam without manual registry hacking, and so on. The number of games that support it? Very short list and very few AAA titles. For example, Civ4 did, Civ5 doesn't do EAX or ALchemy. And >50% of the time, if you didn't manually edit the registry then you aren't using EAX anyway.
As far as the hardware side? Let's be blunt: the Creative X-Fi was released in 2005, and they haven't even bothered to update drivers worth a damn. The hardware hasn't changed in 6 years now, other than to add a PCI to PCIe bridge on the card. The drivers are abysmal at best; you want to record in Stereo on Windows 7? Sorry, totally unsupported still. They keep racing to the bottom - the current front panel / drive bay connectors are analog unshielded, meaning you get a ton of EMI/RFI noise.
If you have PCI slots available, I'll be blunt: HT OMEGA CLARO plus+. Pretty much in terms of audio quality without being a full out pro multi-channel card, HT Omega has everyone beat. What do you lose versus a "gaming" card? Really, nothing. You gain better audio quality overall, you get Dolby Pro Logic IIx, you get this that and the other. Hell, you get dual mic input if you want. If you'd prefer the HT Omega Striker (which is ~$70-80) based on price? Go for it. I own one of those, and I never had a problem with it. Drivers were kept up to date; they had Windows 7 64-bit working perfectly before release, and audio quality was only somewhat noticeably below the Claro plus+. (The Claro Halo XT's another discussion.)
If you have PCI-Express only, as I do now? Well. The eCLARO is available now, but I haven't listened. I don't know any reason why it wouldn't be better than the Striker 7.1 in terms of quality. (I'm just weirded out because it's designed to swap from full width to low-profile PCIe for HTPCs.) The Asus XONAR family is available, but reviews are mixed leaning toward negative. Persistent issues remain unresolved, like Left-Front being Right-Rear, drivers crash frequently on Windows 7 64-bit or don't work right at all, and Asus support is totally non-responsive. So I'd recommend avoiding them.
Comments
ah my bad, thought AMD 6320 IGP, not Intel E6320
Also, don't you have an M11x, isn't that a capable gaming laptop?
Might have misread, they can't handle them - CPU chugs along since they're so processor intensive. It's quickly becoming my bottleneck, I think.
I would subscribe to this model as well, would that change your recommendations for CPU/Chipset above? Perhaps I should consider overclockability?
This is indeed what I was speaking towards, but was unsure how true it was. Interesting to know, though.
Ah, gotcha - was unsure how you got so confused...just goes to further the numbering scheme woes. Yes, I have an m11x, but this desktop puts that thing to shame. They serve different purposes, desktop is my everyday gaming workhorse, the laptop travels with me and provides the same gaming comfort wherever I go.
SHILL MODE ENGAGED
Radeon HD 6870 (faster than the competing GeForce GTX 560 and lower power, trololol)
And one of the CPU/mobo combos I outlined above.
Pair it with a 650-700W (breathing room) PSU from Corsair and call it a day.
Get a SSD
Get a faster CPU
Get 4GB or more of RAM
Get a 2nd 5850
I got an E7200 or E8400 I'll sell ya
Would a second 5850 be worth it? I've debated just that, but they're so ridiculously priced it's insane. Just figured I'd say the hell with it and buy something more powerful...seems like a better use of money.
If you got another one, though, you'd get pretty spectacular scaling with CrossFire. 'Round 84-95% if I recall the numbers I last saw.
Except for the Radeon HD 6990 ($699), there's no single GPU upgrade that's faster than 2x5800 Series cards. CrossFire is a very powerful price/performance solution, even though people don't readily equate it that way. Even in the 6000 Series, a pair of Radeon 6870s for $350 can only be eclipsed by the 6990.
Edit: No. Bummer.
Memory and CPU bandwidth will be a concern with 2GB/Core2.
I doubt I could find one if I tried real hard.
Serious question. Am I missing out on something? I haven't kept up, but I seem to be able to do everything I want to do?
You shouldn't, but it seems to me that most of the games you play are from that era, so it makes sense that your computer does fine.
You might look at the ASUS KGPE. PCIe 16x/8x/8x, socket G34 for up to 12 cores per socket, RAID0/1/5/10. SAS is optional, I believe.
It's the only other board I know of that fits most of your needs.
That's true. What's come out recently that's worth an upgrade? Seems like TF2's resurgence has been the biggest influx of gaming to IC lately. Other stuff like Minecraft and KSP don't seem to make a case?
I'm legit not aware of anything worth upgrading for, but I haven't been keeping up.
After seeing the kind of QA ASUS does with their retail boards I question their server equipment and there were a large number of people having issues with booting with GPUs and the machine not posting randomly some times.
Ya that ASUS is the only other newegg board that pulls up for dual G34 and the only other board I have found is a Supermicro which I would only use as a foot rest.
I have a C2D-based Celeron in my home rig, and going from 2gb to 6gb made all the difference in the world. It is night and day. If you decide to put off a major upgrade, getting a little more RAM in the meantime may be worthwhile.
The biggest difference that I've noticed is Civ5 starts up quicker, plays smoother, and shuts down two minutes faster (which is to say instantly, now). My system used to be frustratingly unresponsive while it played shell games with virtual memory.
You must not have an unhealthy tab habit like I do. Browsers are the biggest RAM hog in my usage.
You're right. I didn't see that a PIKE card was required for some RAID modes. However, the SP5100 chipset itself supports RAID0/1/10.
What games do you like to play? Civ5 is awesome, and brutal on hardware. Shogun 2. Metro 2033. DA2 requires some oomph to get the details up at 1080p and so on.
Battlefield 3 is DX11 only, and is going to be pretty painful for people.
I keep up to date with PC technology, obviously. My rig is a perfect gaming PC at the moment. However - sound.
I'm a home entertainment audiophile. I've always loved having the best sound possible at my PC with digital output and the like. I've used a SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS card for a long time because I loved the funcitons with it, and the software was outstanding. Creative Labs, sucking the way they do, never provided Vista+ drivers for the board. Hacked drivers gave me some functionality, but the card finally died shortly after I moved to California.
I've been using 5.1 onboard + digital on my Gigabyte motherboard since then, and I frigging hate it. Support in games is bare minimum, digital output options are lacking (proper 96/24 doesn't work with films) and the software totally blows. Plus, with all of the specialized types of recording that I do for video/3D work, I really need more control. I know many people are happy with onboard sound these days, but I simply am not.
So I'm a bit out of touch with sound cards, considering I haven't looked at the market since I bought the Audigy 2 ZS. I'm ready to buy a new one, but I don't want to buy Creative Labs. I've come to loathe that company for a variety of reasons, so I'd prefer to give my money to someone else. Thing is, I've only used CL soundcards, so I don't know where to begin on alternatives. Also, are EAX effects and other gaming audio technologies available on other sound boards? I'd really rather not give up EAX without an acceptable alternative.
I would look to reviews of the Asus Xonar series, specifically the Xense or the Essence STX. I'm told they are quite good.
AFAIK, Asus has some sort of technology that can intercept EAX calls and output a reasonable facsimile, but I've not read much about it.
//EDIT: A good Xonar Xense review that discusses EAX emulation, and the card, in detail.
Yes, Asus requires a proprietary PIKE card which is hard to find and prone to failure (to put it mildly.) IOW: not even the awesomeness of the SP5100 can save you from Asus' bad design corrupting or losing your data. The PIKE is one of the worst implemented bad ideas to ever come out of anywhere. You'd be better off throwing neodymium magnets at your hard drives, no joke.
Then you're doing it wrong; besides, Newegg's server selection is absolute garbage.
If you're going to do dual G34 for workstation, this is the board to do it with. SR5690+SP5100 with triple PCIe 16x full bandwidth spaced specifically for CrossFire configuration with HD6970's. You could use the H8DGi as well, I s'pose, but the LSI2008 SAS is pretty hardcore and does alternate reads. (However, the RAID5 is painfully slow.)
EAX is a 100% proprietary "technology" created by Creative Labs to foster lock-in, back before they became complete garbage. No other card can do EAX without a license to do so from Creative, and they grant no licenses, ever. People have tried for years. The closest you'll get are the cards that claim to be better than the Audigy or X-Fi despite being quite literally clones of Creative Audigy or X-Fi themselves. (And 100% dependent on Creative's drivers, which are notoriously awful.)
But let's be honest; what's EAX actually get you? The truth is, compared to standard 5.1, pretty much nothing these days. Blah blah "ambient improvements" blah blah "DSP" etcetera. Well, everyone and their brother has a DSP. Sensaura got absorbed and for some idiotic reason moved into 3DLabs (WHY?!) Even Creative has abandoned EAX largely for it's ALchemy successor; except people aren't really doing anything with ALchemy, including Creative; it doesn't work on 64-bit systems period, it doesn't work with any game using Steam without manual registry hacking, and so on. The number of games that support it? Very short list and very few AAA titles. For example, Civ4 did, Civ5 doesn't do EAX or ALchemy. And >50% of the time, if you didn't manually edit the registry then you aren't using EAX anyway.
As far as the hardware side? Let's be blunt: the Creative X-Fi was released in 2005, and they haven't even bothered to update drivers worth a damn. The hardware hasn't changed in 6 years now, other than to add a PCI to PCIe bridge on the card. The drivers are abysmal at best; you want to record in Stereo on Windows 7? Sorry, totally unsupported still. They keep racing to the bottom - the current front panel / drive bay connectors are analog unshielded, meaning you get a ton of EMI/RFI noise.
If you have PCI slots available, I'll be blunt: HT OMEGA CLARO plus+. Pretty much in terms of audio quality without being a full out pro multi-channel card, HT Omega has everyone beat. What do you lose versus a "gaming" card? Really, nothing. You gain better audio quality overall, you get Dolby Pro Logic IIx, you get this that and the other. Hell, you get dual mic input if you want. If you'd prefer the HT Omega Striker (which is ~$70-80) based on price? Go for it. I own one of those, and I never had a problem with it. Drivers were kept up to date; they had Windows 7 64-bit working perfectly before release, and audio quality was only somewhat noticeably below the Claro plus+. (The Claro Halo XT's another discussion.)
If you have PCI-Express only, as I do now? Well. The eCLARO is available now, but I haven't listened. I don't know any reason why it wouldn't be better than the Striker 7.1 in terms of quality. (I'm just weirded out because it's designed to swap from full width to low-profile PCIe for HTPCs.) The Asus XONAR family is available, but reviews are mixed leaning toward negative. Persistent issues remain unresolved, like Left-Front being Right-Rear, drivers crash frequently on Windows 7 64-bit or don't work right at all, and Asus support is totally non-responsive. So I'd recommend avoiding them.