Y'know, there already is a nice, long, nether system out to the blaze grinder with a full cart system. We could just delete the overworld around that point and let it regen with 1.7 terrain.
No. No no no. No no nononononononono.
Deleting arbitrary chunks of map is a pain in the ass. I've had to do it before. I don't want to again.
What would really be the point in moving if everyone can just ride the rails back to where they were and pick up all their crap?
If we want to save the world of posterity, why not put in an inventory mod and save the world as another world with separate inventory so people can still dick around in that one if they want while making a new world for people to start playing in again.
Come on guys, we can rebuild it, we have the lack of a social life. Besides, Idea, just put out a world download, that way anyone who wants to go on with it can continue in SSP
What would really be the point in moving if everyone can just ride the rails back to where they were and pick up all their crap?
Because the point is to make 1.7 stuff generate, not (necessarily) to start a new world for kicks.
1
colapart legend, part devil... all manBalls deepIcrontian
edited September 2013
Continental Shift: Start a new continent
1.7 is bringing a bunch of new stuffs again, and the size of the current world makes it rough to find those chunks without a huge ammount of travel. The continental shift would allow people to take a rail through the nether out to an undiscovered area where the new stuff would be located and allow us to have access to said new stuff as a group. It also allows those that have investments in the current world to keep the fruits of their labor. Basically my understanding is that those that want to enjoy the 1.7 world can do so with a simple rail ride and bed to change your spawn location, and it'll be far enough away that you can explore without running back into the current world.
1: Do nothing. This is easy, but doesn't change the current stale situation.
2: Server wipe. It is intriguing to have a whole new world to play with everyone. There are just certain builds that I would have a hard time archiving. As mentioned moving any part of the map is both a pain and the edges will most likely be ugly (possibly above ground but most likely underground).
3: Continental shift. The single flaw to this is the added taxing of the server. Ardi isn't saying that the server can't handle it... but Minecraft, mirite?
I'll be honest I see a lot more people than I expected voting for the reset. I want to believe that they can get a similar experience with the continental shift plan if everyone starts over with them. We have no way to enforce that but I have a few plans for events that the honor system should be sufficient. I think we can make this a fun and exciting experience for all.
While we are here I would like to quickly remind everyone that our server gets updated when it is approved to do so by the developers that write the multiplayer software we use called Bukkit. This handles the admin tools on the server among other tasks such as the chest locking mod. To our displeasure, the Bukkit team has been increasingly longer to update along with each official Mojang release. As we get closer to the update of 1.7, patience will be necessary and appreciated.
What would really be the point in moving if everyone can just ride the rails back to where they were and pick up all their crap?
This basically proved to be irrelevant in the last server reset. It wasn't any more than 24 hours old when people had already gotten diamond tools and were obtaining hard-to-get resources. People always find a way, either through sheer determination or having a specific understanding thanks to hours and hours of playing. Point is, the "pure" Minecraft experience as it is will quickly be offset by people just playing the game and knowing how it works. It's no different than starting a new continent and letting those that want to go pure, and letting those that will just keep using their inventory.
While we are here I would like to quickly remind everyone that our server gets updated when it is approved to do so by the developers that write the multiplayer software we use called Bukkit. This handles the admin tools on the server among other tasks such as the chest locking mod. To our displeasure, the Bukkit team has been increasingly longer to update along with each official Mojang release. As we get closer to the update of 1.7, patience will be necessary and appreciated.
Can we find an alternative to Bukkit who's dev cycle doesn't completely blow? Waiting on bukkit kills enthusiasm for the game.
While we are here I would like to quickly remind everyone that our server gets updated when it is approved to do so by the developers that write the multiplayer software we use called Bukkit. This handles the admin tools on the server among other tasks such as the chest locking mod. To our displeasure, the Bukkit team has been increasingly longer to update along with each official Mojang release. As we get closer to the update of 1.7, patience will be necessary and appreciated.
Can we find an alternative to Bukkit who's dev cycle doesn't completely blow? Waiting on bukkit kills enthusiasm for the game.
It's not that simple. I've put in a lot of work building the necessary script to manage bukkit, backups, map generation, etc. Not to mention the myriad of plugins that are, as far as I can tell, bukkit-only and would need to be replaced and reconfigured. All told, I'd estimate replacing bukkit would be at least a good 10 hours of work for me at this point.
If you want to blame someone for the situation we're in, blame the Minecraft team for continuing to put their plugin API off release after release. bukkit may lag behind on new releases, but it is the best we have at this time.... unless we want to run a vanilla Minecraft server and lose the ability to do things like locking chests, tracking griefers and rolling back their damage... which I, for one, do not.
The philosophy of someone who has never minecrafted with you guys but has interest: The fun of minecraft is the initial exploration, survival, and building. By asking one of us to join you at this point is almost like asking a caveman to jump in to modern society with a land grant in the midwest. It just isn't the same as being the frontiersmen that settled the wild west to start. Your amazing buildings, resources, and systems are overwhelming to us as we build a mudbrick house in your new continent. What the cavemen need is a fresh start, where what we do is meaningful and competes with the meaningfulness of others.
That being said, don't wipe the server for us. The continental shift arguments are great, and none of us cavemen want to destroy what you have built if you think it's a bad idea. Just know where we are coming from, and consider a monk and his rock garden.
PirateNinja, I'm not sure you understand what the continental shift will do. Everyone will be starting fresh, though there are certainly experience differences that will not be alleviated in any chosen situation. You will all be moving to a brand new area, with nothing but your own two, fingerless hands.
While we are here I would like to quickly remind everyone that our server gets updated when it is approved to do so by the developers that write the multiplayer software we use called Bukkit. This handles the admin tools on the server among other tasks such as the chest locking mod. To our displeasure, the Bukkit team has been increasingly longer to update along with each official Mojang release. As we get closer to the update of 1.7, patience will be necessary and appreciated.
Can we find an alternative to Bukkit who's dev cycle doesn't completely blow? Waiting on bukkit kills enthusiasm for the game.
It's not that simple. I've put in a lot of work building the necessary script to manage bukkit, backups, map generation, etc. Not to mention the myriad of plugins that are, as far as I can tell, bukkit-only and would need to be replaced and reconfigured. All told, I'd estimate replacing bukkit would be at least a good 10 hours of work for me at this point.
If you want to blame someone for the situation we're in, blame the Minecraft team for continuing to put their plugin API off release after release. bukkit may lag behind on new releases, but it is the best we have at this time.... unless we want to run a vanilla Minecraft server and lose the ability to do things like locking chests, tracking griefers and rolling back their damage... which I, for one, do not.
However with the new launcher, having the server on an older jar is no longer an issue
PirateNinja, I'm not sure you understand what the continental shift will do. Everyone will be starting fresh, though there are certainly experience differences that will not be alleviated in any chosen situation. You will all be moving to a brand new area, with nothing but your own two, fingerless hands.
This is true, I'm a relatively ignorant minecrafter. I hardly understand what you guys are talking about. In my day, diamond was king. What the crap is experience? This is why you must take my opinion with a big grain of salt.
Sort of Tush. If current players want to stay on the current Icrontinent and use their current resources, they are welcome to do so. If they want to bring their resources to the new continent that is fine but they will be asked not to do so until the caveman period ends in the new world.
I'll do my best to outline rules that don't break the immersion of the new world and hopefully the community members follow suit.
I think this will allow the best of both worlds as long as the community members 'play along'
Besides, Idea, just put out a world download, that way anyone who wants to go on with it can continue in SSP
That was an option the last time we wiped a server and I may be wrong but I don't believe anyone wanted to dick around on a dead server by themselves. Not a bad suggestion but it's kind of a moot point.
Eh... I can't change my vote, but the more I think about it the more a continental shift makes sense. I'm not a huge fan of the resource balloon it will cause, but my server should be able to handle it since I upped the RAM.
Well maybe if it's a hardware thing @ardichoke maybe we can crowd fund a little money between us IC folks to get what we need to keep the sever viable for a shift instead of a restart. I would totally be willing to toss a little cash your way for some upgrades if needed.
Well.. This might sound selfish of me, but considering I am new and have absolutely nothing to loose on a server wipe, I would probably choose that. I won't actually vote though, doesn't feel right since I haven't played with you yet.
It sounds like we're leaning towards the continental shift idea. I think we should discuss and determine if we would like to add fast-travel teleport points to our game.
Overview:
I fully agree we should have a "frontier" experience in the New Icrontinent, and to get there I support having a fun adventure though the Nether to make a long-ass road to the new land. There we can enjoy that "clean slate" feeling and start fresh.
...at least, for the first week or so. After that, how do we show newcomers the fruits of our labor in the Old Icrontinent? Giving tours is perhaps the crown jewel of our server, which would be very much dampened if it takes 15 minutes or more just to go back to meet someone at spawn.
Three proposed options:
1. Basic pair of teleporters: a teleporter set that goes between the existing ICTown and some central point in the new continent. You step on a pressure plate to activate the teleporter and WOOSH you're there.
2. Teleporter room: the above, plus have a room in the existing ICTown that has a group of teleporters that each take you between various landmarks in the Old Icrontinent (I've seen other servers do teleporter rooms like this). The point of this is to help ease the end-game retirement of the Old Icrontinent, thus I'm not suggesting a teleporter network in the New Continent.
3. Teleportation commands: the above, plus allowing us to /spawn to warp to Spawn, and /home to warp where we set with /sethome. I understand if this is too convenient but it sure would be nice.
Digi, and everyone else... what do you think? I feel strongly for having teleporters because I think it would simply up the "fun factor" for everyone, but it's up to y'all. I'll enjoy whatever we go with.
I think teleporters would be a good idea. Even though traveling through the nether only requires x/8 blocks, to get to a whole new continent would still take quite a long while, at least for regular travel. Plus, if you have multiple people attempting to get from ICTown to the new continent, there might be some rail collisions. Teleporting would alleviate that.
I would also think that having teleporters for people from IC Town to outland plots (I'm still going to work on my castle) would be nice.
This would make IC Town the hub for all time, but still make it quick to get from old terrain to new.
I thought the teleporter thing was the basic idea for the continent shift from the beginning. Wasn't the whole idea to just generate a completely new area that is essentially right next to town via teleporter?
I thought the teleporter thing was the basic idea for the continent shift from the beginning. Wasn't the whole idea to just generate a completely new area that is essentially right next to town via teleporter?
I don't think so. Originally @BobbyDigi said the following:
C: Continental Shift: We use The Nether to go a couple thousand blocks away from current spawn and build a portal. Pros: The world will generate with the newly updated generation, mobs, ect. Cons: Travel time between continents. If you happen to die and spawn at The Spawn, you will have to travel quite a way to get back to the new continent.
So the way I understood it, the original discussion was having us hoof (or cart) it 2000+ blocks (each a meter long) through the Nether every time we want to change locations. This will put the New Icrontinent over 16km away in the "light world" if I understand the math right. When he said "build a portal" I think he just meant make a Nether Portal back out of the Nether.
Honestly I could live with either result. I would prefer just wiping it and starting fresh, but I didn't really put a ton of time into the server like some other people.
That being said, if we do move the to Continental Shift idea I think teleporters are a bit too easy, and I think it would be a bit cooler if we just kind of expanded on the subway system idea we had and just did a group project to create a (really) long railway to the old town.
So what would be the point of making people actually cover distance in the Nether if we can just set a warp portal? Walk through a door in the current town and come out in the new area?
So what would be the point of making people actually cover distance in the Nether if we can just set a warp portal? Walk through a door in the current town and come out in the new area?
We could do that. Have Digi teleport himself out to the xyz coordinate that's 30km away or some such, then just make a teleporter tile for us.
Also for the sake of discussion I just realized that a nether rail system may not even be feasible in survival mode with limited resources. The rail line itself would use a metric fuckton of iron. Even if we limit it to only 2000 blocks long, with 6 iron ingots per block, then x2 so there's a track running each way... 24,000 iron ingots. Not to mention, powered rails take 6 ingots of gold each. I'm not against trying anyways but to remain realistic about it, it all sounds overwhelming when all we want to do is build in a new area.
If you want to live in the new continent and forget that old IC Town existed, then the one-time train ride to the New World is perfect, regardless of the time it takes.
If you want to periodically or regularly visit old IC Town and/or current outlands areas (eventually bringing stuff over from your old storage, etc), then a 10 minute train ride in each direction every single time puts a pretty big dent in your overall experience.
Come to think of it, why not both?
We'll already have a path to the nether (unless admins want to just teleport to an arbitrary distance to establish the new continent), so setting up teleporters would just give people a choice as to how they wish to access the new and old areas.
As for server resources? Would it really be that big of a dent outside of the overall map size? IIRC, inactive chunks aren't loaded until a chunk of arbitrary distance is occupied, leaving things like IC town unloaded if everyone is out on the new continent. I could see it being an issue if you've got one person in IC Town, another in an outlands area, and 10 people on the new continent and associated outlands areas, but how often would that ever happen, really?
1
midga"There's so much hot dog in Rome" ~digi(> ^.(> O_o)>Icrontian
Continental Shift: Start a new continent
I agree that a small teleportal system wouldn't be an awful thing. Mostly something to keep it more like a new-map experience for newcomers instead of a walkwalkwalkwalkwalkwalkwalkwalkwalkwalkwalkawalkawalkawalkawalkawalkawalkawalkawalkawalkwalkwalkwalkwalkwalkwalkwalkwalkwalknew-map experience.
I mean if we don't rightly care about immersion or how landscape plays together, WorldEdit does offer the option of copy and paste. We don't have to necessarily delete chunks to generate new ones, we could just copy IC-Town and flop it out (dick joke) all over some nice innocent newly genned landscape. The hills and crap wouldn't line up all proper like, but we do get new landscapes and keep the old town.
Granted the memory usage of doing moves over 10million blocks tends to crash servers temporarily.
Comments
Deleting arbitrary chunks of map is a pain in the ass. I've had to do it before. I don't want to again.
If we want to save the world of posterity, why not put in an inventory mod and save the world as another world with separate inventory so people can still dick around in that one if they want while making a new world for people to start playing in again.
1: Do nothing. This is easy, but doesn't change the current stale situation.
2: Server wipe. It is intriguing to have a whole new world to play with everyone. There are just certain builds that I would have a hard time archiving. As mentioned moving any part of the map is both a pain and the edges will most likely be ugly (possibly above ground but most likely underground).
3: Continental shift. The single flaw to this is the added taxing of the server. Ardi isn't saying that the server can't handle it... but Minecraft, mirite?
I'll be honest I see a lot more people than I expected voting for the reset. I want to believe that they can get a similar experience with the continental shift plan if everyone starts over with them. We have no way to enforce that but I have a few plans for events that the honor system should be sufficient. I think we can make this a fun and exciting experience for all.
While we are here I would like to quickly remind everyone that our server gets updated when it is approved to do so by the developers that write the multiplayer software we use called Bukkit. This handles the admin tools on the server among other tasks such as the chest locking mod. To our displeasure, the Bukkit team has been increasingly longer to update along with each official Mojang release. As we get closer to the update of 1.7, patience will be necessary and appreciated.
Thanks again for all your feedback.
Mine On!
Can we find an alternative to Bukkit who's dev cycle doesn't completely blow? Waiting on bukkit kills enthusiasm for the game.
If you want to blame someone for the situation we're in, blame the Minecraft team for continuing to put their plugin API off release after release. bukkit may lag behind on new releases, but it is the best we have at this time.... unless we want to run a vanilla Minecraft server and lose the ability to do things like locking chests, tracking griefers and rolling back their damage... which I, for one, do not.
The fun of minecraft is the initial exploration, survival, and building. By asking one of us to join you at this point is almost like asking a caveman to jump in to modern society with a land grant in the midwest. It just isn't the same as being the frontiersmen that settled the wild west to start.
Your amazing buildings, resources, and systems are overwhelming to us as we build a mudbrick house in your new continent.
What the cavemen need is a fresh start, where what we do is meaningful and competes with the meaningfulness of others.
That being said, don't wipe the server for us. The continental shift arguments are great, and none of us cavemen want to destroy what you have built if you think it's a bad idea. Just know where we are coming from, and consider a monk and his rock garden.
I'll do my best to outline rules that don't break the immersion of the new world and hopefully the community members follow suit.
I think this will allow the best of both worlds as long as the community members 'play along'
Overview:
I fully agree we should have a "frontier" experience in the New Icrontinent, and to get there I support having a fun adventure though the Nether to make a long-ass road to the new land. There we can enjoy that "clean slate" feeling and start fresh.
...at least, for the first week or so. After that, how do we show newcomers the fruits of our labor in the Old Icrontinent? Giving tours is perhaps the crown jewel of our server, which would be very much dampened if it takes 15 minutes or more just to go back to meet someone at spawn.
Three proposed options:
1. Basic pair of teleporters: a teleporter set that goes between the existing ICTown and some central point in the new continent. You step on a pressure plate to activate the teleporter and WOOSH you're there.
2. Teleporter room: the above, plus have a room in the existing ICTown that has a group of teleporters that each take you between various landmarks in the Old Icrontinent (I've seen other servers do teleporter rooms like this). The point of this is to help ease the end-game retirement of the Old Icrontinent, thus I'm not suggesting a teleporter network in the New Continent.
3. Teleportation commands: the above, plus allowing us to /spawn to warp to Spawn, and /home to warp where we set with /sethome. I understand if this is too convenient but it sure would be nice.
Digi, and everyone else... what do you think? I feel strongly for having teleporters because I think it would simply up the "fun factor" for everyone, but it's up to y'all. I'll enjoy whatever we go with.
I would also think that having teleporters for people from IC Town to outland plots (I'm still going to work on my castle) would be nice.
This would make IC Town the hub for all time, but still make it quick to get from old terrain to new.
Icrontown is the East, Continential shift locale will be the wild west! (Or the wild f'ed up biome, considering all the capable spawns.)
So the way I understood it, the original discussion was having us hoof (or cart) it 2000+ blocks (each a meter long) through the Nether every time we want to change locations. This will put the New Icrontinent over 16km away in the "light world" if I understand the math right. When he said "build a portal" I think he just meant make a Nether Portal back out of the Nether.
That being said, if we do move the to Continental Shift idea I think teleporters are a bit too easy, and I think it would be a bit cooler if we just kind of expanded on the subway system idea we had and just did a group project to create a (really) long railway to the old town.
Also for the sake of discussion I just realized that a nether rail system may not even be feasible in survival mode with limited resources. The rail line itself would use a metric fuckton of iron. Even if we limit it to only 2000 blocks long, with 6 iron ingots per block, then x2 so there's a track running each way... 24,000 iron ingots. Not to mention, powered rails take 6 ingots of gold each. I'm not against trying anyways but to remain realistic about it, it all sounds overwhelming when all we want to do is build in a new area.
If you want to live in the new continent and forget that old IC Town existed, then the one-time train ride to the New World is perfect, regardless of the time it takes.
If you want to periodically or regularly visit old IC Town and/or current outlands areas (eventually bringing stuff over from your old storage, etc), then a 10 minute train ride in each direction every single time puts a pretty big dent in your overall experience.
Come to think of it, why not both?
We'll already have a path to the nether (unless admins want to just teleport to an arbitrary distance to establish the new continent), so setting up teleporters would just give people a choice as to how they wish to access the new and old areas.
As for server resources? Would it really be that big of a dent outside of the overall map size? IIRC, inactive chunks aren't loaded until a chunk of arbitrary distance is occupied, leaving things like IC town unloaded if everyone is out on the new continent. I could see it being an issue if you've got one person in IC Town, another in an outlands area, and 10 people on the new continent and associated outlands areas, but how often would that ever happen, really?
Alternatively, Massive. Overworld. Rollercoaster.
Granted the memory usage of doing moves over 10million blocks tends to crash servers temporarily.