Mackanz had this to say I wonder if it's a 9500 you have with only 4 pipelines enabled.
Any way to check to make really sure? Simguy?
God damn that would be damned irregular I think. ATI Quality Control would have really gone down the crapper to let an oldstyle R300-PCB based 9500 Pro be packaged as a 9700 Pro.
Possible? Yes. Likely? Almost not... but mistakes do happen.
Gnome: You'll find the Part Number (that 102 number) on the back of the card on the white barcode label. It will be the lower set of values.
As well, I need you to run a DEFAULT 3DMark2001 SE benchmark and submit it to the Online Result Browser. Than I can take a look at your fill rates and such information and make a comparison.
Preacher had this to say So if the choice was between a 9600XT or a Sapphire 9800 Pro...wouldn't the Pro win out on performance? Just thinking of upgrading options prior to HL2..
The 9800 Pro would definately win out on both performance and AA/AF abilities.
AA & AF are memory-bandwidth limited. The 9600XT only has a 128-bit memory interface, running at 600 MHz, giving it 9.6 GB/sec of memory bandwidth. As well, it only has 4 pixel pipelines and half the pixel/vertex shader 1.4/2.0 units as the 9700/9800 series cards has.
In contrast, the 9800 Pro has a 256-bit memory interface running at 680 MHz, giving it a whopping 21.76 GB/sec memory bandwidth.
Essentially, when you've got AA & AF information competing for memory bandwidth that's traditionally used by the GPU to perform rendering calculations and store frequently used data, the amount of bandwidth really comes into play. There needs to be all that extra memory bandwidth availability to allow the card to transfer the AA & AF information (essentially re-rendered pixel selections from the original screen) to the memory and back before it's rendered. Only 9.6 GB/sec of this bandwidth isn't enough, and the standard video information that's used in just rendering the raw scene must compete for ample memory bandwidth that's being used by AA & AF features. Hence why on older cards and today's low end cards with little memory bandwidth, AA & AF really impact performance.
On today's 256-bit parts, the cards are no longer memory-bandwidth limited, they are fillrate limited (speed of GPU/VPU). Hence, AA & AF on these cards don't impact performance nearly as bad as it would on the low-end cards.
and unzip its' contents to a disk. You'll also need a Windows Boot Disk (98, 95, Me, etc... someway to get to a real DOS prompt).
Once there, remove the boot disk and insert the disk with the FlashROM.zip files on it.
I'd like you to make a BIOS dump of your video card using the FlashROM program and upload it to SM so I can take a look at it to make sure that the BIOS isn't doing anything wonky to your card.
Once you have inserted the FlashROM disk, change to your A: and type the following command:
flashrom -s 0 gnome9700.bin (the "0" is the number ZERO, not the letter "O").
Then, restart back to Windows, put that .bin file in a ZIP file and upload it to this thread.
DAMN!!!!!!!!!!! Talk bout making my fraziled brain work at 10:30 at night! Ill have that done bye11:15 hopefully it doesnt crap out on me! My pc just restarted soon as a set it up to 1200x1024 ran for an hour then boom reboot!
Well... Anyone seen Reelbigfish in a while? Seems like I was sold a R9700 Non-Pro for R9700 Pro prices?
I just went to compare my 9700 Pro BIOS to the Gnome's and it turns out my card is actually clocked at the 9700 NP speeds, yet windows finds it as a 9700 Pro? WTF?
That's besides the point. I'll deal with it myself.
Gnome, if you have 3DMark03 installed (any version), could you fire it up and post your "Display Device" details underneath the "System Details" information page? I think I've found a way to determine how many pipelines are enabled on your card by checking this information dossier.
IE, my 9700 Pro (well, other than those NON-PRO clock speeds...) ??
Notice the "Textures In Single Pass" = 8. Radeon 9700/9800's are 8x1 texturing unit devices... so this will tell you how many pipelines are active (theoretically). Can someone with a NON-softmodded 9500 or 9600 do the same thing and post their info to make sure this actually works. I don't have a 9500 or 9600 to corroborate information with
No i cant i got it from a friend for free. I am looking for a good card under 200 bucks I am looking at the ti4800 by gainward. what do you guys think I should get?
Why did he give it to you for free?
There is still probably a possibility of sending it back to ATi. Just takes work.
Al_Capown had this to say Does he still have the receipt?
See if you can call newegg and rma it. But I'm sure if that's the case and he finds out that you can rma it he will probably want it back. So, try to unlock those other 4 pipelines.
Gnome, all 8 pipelines are unlocked and running at full potential.
Seems like you have a problem with AGP Texture Acceleration. By chance, do you have a "SMARTGART" tab in the ATI Control Panel?
Without AGP Texture Acceleration enabled, you WILL notice a 10-25% performance drop, which seems to be in line with what you are experiencing.
In order to get AGP Texturing Acceleration enabled once again, you'll have to:
-> Uninstall ALL Catalyst drivers & Control Panel. DO NOT REBOOT.
-> Then, utilize a driver cleaner software and completely remove every trace of the Catalyst drivers found.
-> Delete the C:\ATI folder found on your hard disk.
-> Download the Catalyst driver suite you wish to use (recommend Catalyst 3.7).
-> Download the DirectX 9.0B redistributable here
-> Disable your internet connection
-> Restart the system and logon.
-> Cancel any prompts you get regarding installing drivers for your video card.
-> Reinstall DirectX 9.0B & restart.
-> Upon restart, install the Catalyst 3.7 series, then the Control Panel. ONLY REBOOT once both have been installed.
-> Upon next startup, fire up dxdiag and check the Display tab for AGP Texturing Acceleration. It should now be available and enabled.
As well, I'd double check your AGP Aperture Size in the BIOS once again and set it to either 128 MB or 256 MB.
A user over at AMDMB Forums reported the same R9700 Pro AGP Texturing Acceleration problems as you with an NForce2 motherboard and this is how he fixed it
here may be other numbers that are silk screened right on the board. Certain numbers may indicate the graphics chip family for the board. Graphics boards BUILT BY ATI will include a "109 Number". Although this "109" number does not give specific information on a particular graphics board product, it may lead you towards the correct display drivers. Similar numbers may be listed for a POWERED BY ATI product.
My 9500 soft-modded to 9700 scores 12228 w/2100 XP stock, 512mb of 2100, w/AGP textures enabled at the settings simguy specified.
Would love to hear how this turns out. Hope it's the AGP textures. Good luck!
Comments
Any way to check to make really sure? Simguy?
G - I was going to suggest earlier but now that Mack brings it up, I'd be VERY curious to see front & back photos of your vc
On that link, you can see the partnumber. Cause of the blur, i cant see it good enough. What number is it? Ati should have a searchfunction for it.
God damn that would be damned irregular I think. ATI Quality Control would have really gone down the crapper to let an oldstyle R300-PCB based 9500 Pro be packaged as a 9700 Pro.
Possible? Yes. Likely? Almost not... but mistakes do happen.
Gnome: You'll find the Part Number (that 102 number) on the back of the card on the white barcode label. It will be the lower set of values.
As well, I need you to run a DEFAULT 3DMark2001 SE benchmark and submit it to the Online Result Browser. Than I can take a look at your fill rates and such information and make a comparison.
Thanks
The 9800 Pro would definately win out on both performance and AA/AF abilities.
AA & AF are memory-bandwidth limited. The 9600XT only has a 128-bit memory interface, running at 600 MHz, giving it 9.6 GB/sec of memory bandwidth. As well, it only has 4 pixel pipelines and half the pixel/vertex shader 1.4/2.0 units as the 9700/9800 series cards has.
In contrast, the 9800 Pro has a 256-bit memory interface running at 680 MHz, giving it a whopping 21.76 GB/sec memory bandwidth.
Essentially, when you've got AA & AF information competing for memory bandwidth that's traditionally used by the GPU to perform rendering calculations and store frequently used data, the amount of bandwidth really comes into play. There needs to be all that extra memory bandwidth availability to allow the card to transfer the AA & AF information (essentially re-rendered pixel selections from the original screen) to the memory and back before it's rendered. Only 9.6 GB/sec of this bandwidth isn't enough, and the standard video information that's used in just rendering the raw scene must compete for ample memory bandwidth that's being used by AA & AF features. Hence why on older cards and today's low end cards with little memory bandwidth, AA & AF really impact performance.
On today's 256-bit parts, the cards are no longer memory-bandwidth limited, they are fillrate limited (speed of GPU/VPU). Hence, AA & AF on these cards don't impact performance nearly as bad as it would on the low-end cards.
Could you please download this file:
http://www.short-media.com/img/9800flash/FlashROM.zip
and unzip its' contents to a disk. You'll also need a Windows Boot Disk (98, 95, Me, etc... someway to get to a real DOS prompt).
Once there, remove the boot disk and insert the disk with the FlashROM.zip files on it.
I'd like you to make a BIOS dump of your video card using the FlashROM program and upload it to SM so I can take a look at it to make sure that the BIOS isn't doing anything wonky to your card.
Once you have inserted the FlashROM disk, change to your A: and type the following command:
flashrom -s 0 gnome9700.bin (the "0" is the number ZERO, not the letter "O").
Then, restart back to Windows, put that .bin file in a ZIP file and upload it to this thread.
We'll get to the bottom of this eventually.
I just went to compare my 9700 Pro BIOS to the Gnome's and it turns out my card is actually clocked at the 9700 NP speeds, yet windows finds it as a 9700 Pro? WTF?
That's besides the point. I'll deal with it myself.
Gnome, if you have 3DMark03 installed (any version), could you fire it up and post your "Display Device" details underneath the "System Details" information page? I think I've found a way to determine how many pipelines are enabled on your card by checking this information dossier.
IE, my 9700 Pro (well, other than those NON-PRO clock speeds...) ??
Notice the "Textures In Single Pass" = 8. Radeon 9700/9800's are 8x1 texturing unit devices... so this will tell you how many pipelines are active (theoretically). Can someone with a NON-softmodded 9500 or 9600 do the same thing and post their info to make sure this actually works. I don't have a 9500 or 9600 to corroborate information with
Then go to the display tab and make sure "AGP Texture Acceleration" is turned on.
NS
Why did he give it to you for free?
There is still probably a possibility of sending it back to ATi. Just takes work.
Seems like you have a problem with AGP Texture Acceleration. By chance, do you have a "SMARTGART" tab in the ATI Control Panel?
Without AGP Texture Acceleration enabled, you WILL notice a 10-25% performance drop, which seems to be in line with what you are experiencing.
In order to get AGP Texturing Acceleration enabled once again, you'll have to:
-> Uninstall ALL Catalyst drivers & Control Panel. DO NOT REBOOT.
-> Then, utilize a driver cleaner software and completely remove every trace of the Catalyst drivers found.
-> Delete the C:\ATI folder found on your hard disk.
-> Download the Catalyst driver suite you wish to use (recommend Catalyst 3.7).
-> Download the DirectX 9.0B redistributable here
-> Disable your internet connection
-> Restart the system and logon.
-> Cancel any prompts you get regarding installing drivers for your video card.
-> Reinstall DirectX 9.0B & restart.
-> Upon restart, install the Catalyst 3.7 series, then the Control Panel. ONLY REBOOT once both have been installed.
-> Upon next startup, fire up dxdiag and check the Display tab for AGP Texturing Acceleration. It should now be available and enabled.
As well, I'd double check your AGP Aperture Size in the BIOS once again and set it to either 128 MB or 256 MB.
A user over at AMDMB Forums reported the same R9700 Pro AGP Texturing Acceleration problems as you with an NForce2 motherboard and this is how he fixed it
http://www.ati.com/support/identify/cardver.html
dont know if anyone posted that yet.. more of a FYI kinda thing..
Gobbles
Would love to hear how this turns out. Hope it's the AGP textures. Good luck!